[Stoves] SPAM: Early TLUD history... Re: Friz Handel's Bush Buddy history

[Tom Miles]

Paul, Neil,

Great story. It's not unusual for creative people faced with similar
challenges to come up with similar solutions. We have frequently seen that
with industrial processes patents. Sometimes when you contact someone and
say "Hey, we had the same idea!" you never hear from them again, or, they
send you a copy of their patent. Other times you exchange stories about how
each arrived at a similar solution.

John Hall apparently trademarked his Bushbuddy about 1999 and eventually
abandoned it. You can find the abandoned trademark but a quick search didn't
show a patent. He appears to still be in Portland. 

It is interesting that Fritz's invention was inspired by solving problems
with the Sierra camp stove. I still have our 1990 Sierra Stoves sitting on
the shelf. As you know we tested them and the Zmart Stove for the developer,
Fred Hottenroth, and Tom Reed. Tom boiled peas for me in his kitchen with a
Sierra about that time. As you probably note in your history, Tom was
working with the stratified downdraft in 1980 and I saw his the first TLUD
he showcased with Ron Larson in about 1996. (That's when I talked Ron into
moderating this list, which he did for the next 6 years.) 

Whatever the evolution it's great that the TLUD concepts have served the
hikers and domestic cookers for at least 27 years. Besides, there has always
been something intriguing about gasifiers. 

Tom    

-----Original Message-----
From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of
Paul Anderson
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 6:52 PM
To: neiltm at uwclub.net; Stoves and biofuels network
<Stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: SPAM: [Stoves] Early TLUD history... Re: Friz Handel's Bush Buddy
history

Neil,   (and all Stovers interested in TLUD history)

Thank you for the information that is included below.  Very interesting.

My history document does not give details about the numerous variations of
what have become known as TLUD stoves in the early 2000's or even late
1990s.  There was a whole separate listserv about backpacker / tincan
stoves.  And it is not possible to determine when and where each stove maker
had some spark of inspiration or passing exposure to the very early writings
of Tom Reed or saw someone's variation of Reed's work that dates back to
1985.  There were open discussions with many people.

Truly the Bushbuddy stove was being made with quality workmanship early on,
and was marketed.  Recognition for that to Fritz Handel and John Hall, and
the cited website below is called to everyone's attention.  
And it is reasonable that even the Chinese units made today might have had
roots back to Hall and Handel and others. Such roots are without
documentation, so each reader can make his or her own opinion about their
origins.

So, I am sending this message and your message to the entire Stoves 
Listserv, and am placing all of this at my website drtlud.com     in the 
new section that is called   "EPosts" (selected External Postings that I 
make to the Stoves and Biochar Listservs).

Thank you for bringing this to our attention,

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

On 2/15/2017 4:04 PM, neiltm at uwclub.net wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
> It occurred to me some time ago after reading your TLUD history that 
> there was perhaps another inventor of the TLUD, or two even, worthy of 
> consideration in your history.  The thing is they came up with the 
> basic configuration more by accident, at least in the case of Fritz
Handel.
> His description of how he sought to create increased air flow around 
> the bottom of the stove to avoid scorching what it was sitting on, by 
> convection up the sides, between the two cylinders, and *then* it 
> occuring to him to close the air gap at the top and introduce the air 
> into the top of the burn chamber as secondary air, reveals a different 
> experimental process of development leading to essentially the TLUD 
> architecture, but it was only some time later he learned that it could 
> be used in that mode!
>
> Here is his own account of the development of his stoves.  If nothing 
> else it is a lovely story I hope you enjoy reading, but I think 
> insightful for processes of multiple invention.  Hard to believe my 
> Chinese ebay stoves aren't derivative of this as they share such 
> design similarities, particularly the concentrator and pot support.
>
> https://hikinginfinland.com/2009/11/interview-fritz-handel-from-bushbu
> ddy.html
>
> I guess the "professor of economics at Portland State University named 
> John Hall", who Friz discovered had a patent on his design, means that 
> it should be possible to find that patent and date and details of the 
> design?  I had a quick look through google patent search, but failed 
> to find it.  Sometime in the 90s, possibly even 80s perhaps.  He also 
> it seems marketed it in three sizes, but not with the success later 
> enjoyed by Fritz it seems.
>
> The Bushbuddy web site has more pictures of the stove:
>
> https://bushbuddystove.com/products/bushbuddy-stove
>
> Best wishes,    Neil


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