[Stoves] Off-topic: Time to shut off dripping drivel - mine or GACC's? (Re: Tom Miles)
Roger Samson
rogerenroute at yahoo.ca
Sun Jan 15 13:18:40 CST 2017
Good comments Paul. I can say that in the case of REAP-Canada we have pulled back from work on stoves because of GACC control over the stoves research and funding agenda. We don't have an entry point to engage with them. It's a high cost top down development agenda that is controlled from Washington. With GACC what I see is biomass stoves are marginalized, the rural poor are marginalized, and it is increasingly embedding itself with the fossil fuel sector and trying to control everything stoves. It's increasingly looking like a super problematic agency that has lost its way.
>From my standpoint I think Nikhil's agenda to make more transparent what is going on is highly welcome but his annoying delivery at times is at times a little painful. I am quite tolerant of diverse personalities so he doesn't annoy me. Overall I think he is a big asset as he is one of the few here that is not afraid to speak out for fear of funding. As a part time hobby I follow an investors forum for solar energy (www.thecontrarianinvestor.com) and we have lots of interventions from difficult personalities.
I sympathize with Tom's frustration as the list has been a fantastic open and positive discussion board and had few problem through the years. Really to me the problem isn't with Nikhil, the problem is with GACC and we shouldn't shoot the messenger. I think those attending ETHOS should meet and design possible options to engage with or withdraw from GACC. The Clinton Global Initiative just packed up shop and announced it is folding this weekend. It was another fine Lords of Poverty organization. GACC may not survive Trump so maybe it will die its own natural death. My feeling the organization started with good intentions and then it just got lost. When you have no transparency in terms of governance and you have the Executive director sitting on her own advisory board, its a case of "Houston we have a problem".
I think what needs to be done is to think about what kind of agency would best serve the sustainable household cooking agenda. To me there is a need to create a decentralized sustainable household cooking alliance with regional hubs/testing centres.
I would like to thank Tom for his hard work and patience in keeping the list going through all these years and supporting the biomass stoves movement.
All the best
Roger
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 1/15/17, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Off-topic: Time to shut off dripping drivel - mine or GACC's? (Re: Tom Miles)
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Cc: miata98 at gmail.com
Received: Sunday, January 15, 2017, 12:29 AM
Stovers,
These very recent messages, especially Crispin's
critique of Nikhil
and others comments, have touched many emotions.
Issues have been
exposed, and questions raised. But there are not yet
answers.
Differences have not yet been resolved, even if
eventually there is
only agreement to disagree.
HOWEVER, NOTHING WILL CHANGE UNLESS WE INSIST UPON WHAT
TOM HAS
STATED:
GACC
will be fully engaged at ETHOS in two weeks.
Let’s discuss
what can be accomplished by the stoves community,
including
GACC. Health impacts, fuels, stove designs,
dissemination . .
. Let’s be clear about the needs for current and
future
programs, and what should change.
But that is NOT likely to happen at ETHOS unless ETHOS
does
something differently this year. As an ETHOS
participant since
2003, I know that discussions that are IN DEPTH and
truly open do
NOT occur often (if ever) at ETHOS.
GACC will "make presentations", but that is
hardly being "fully
engaged". Sort of like reading a GACC annual
report. Attendees are
told what the speakers want to tell. There will be no
"accounting"
of the GACC budget. And very little discussion
because there is so
little time. And because attendees are truly polite
and avoid
confrontations.
There will be no resolution of issues about testing
(even multiple
multi-day meetings of Working Groups or Task Forces on
the testing
issues do not resolve the issues). And ETHOS does
not sit in
judgement of GACC or any entity.
Real impact / change of GACC will be at ETHOS only if
the GACC
itself decides that some changes need to be made (and an
announcement at ETHOS would be an appropriate action.)
However, as Tom wrote:
Let’s
discuss what can be accomplished by the stoves
community,
including GACC. Health impacts, fuels, stove
designs,
dissemination . . .
AND
Let’s be clear about the needs for current and
future programs,
and what should change.
If that discussion happens, we all can be much happier
about the
future of stove solutions. That is, ___IF___ such
discussions
happen.
For my part, I have the Saturday evening block, and I
intend to lay
out pathways for success in positive terms. I have
not yet seen
how the GACC will significantly be of assistance, but I
do have
hope. And open discussion will follow on Saturday
evening, and
into Sunday if necessary.
Yes, I am glad that I go to ETHOS every year. Almost
always I can
detect only very small advancements. Maybe this year
will be
better.
Paul
Doc / Dr TLUD
/ Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: www.drtlud.com
On 1/14/2017 10:27 PM,
Tom Miles wrote:
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I
agree on the analysis and on the critical
review. I invited
Nikhil to provide a critical perspective and I
appreciate
that he has been working overtime at it. I do
not agree that
we need to beat up the Clintons, PCIA, GACC (UN
Foundation)
and their predecessors with every post. It’s a
moot point.
We have had opportunities to influence policy
going back to
the PCIA. What’s important now is how we go
forward, as
Crispin has outlined.
GACC
will be fully engaged at ETHOS in two weeks.
Let’s discuss
what can be accomplished by the stoves
community, including
GACC. Health impacts, fuels, stove designs,
dissemination .
. . Let’s be clear about the needs for current
and future
programs, and what should change.
From:
Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]
On
Behalf Of nari phaltan
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 6:20
PM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Cc: miata98 at gmail.com
Subject: SPAM: Re: [Stoves] Off-topic:
Time to shut
off dripping drivel - mine or GACC's? (Re:
Tom Miles)
Dear
Tom,
I
second what Todd Albi has written in his
mail. Nikhil
provides a very detailed analysis (though he
could put
it more politely) about lots of assumptions
that we
never question. From his and Crispin's
mail the GACC
funding scenario is quite opaque and with
very little
accountability.
Emails
are very easy to delete with a click if
somebody does
not like them. But removing the opportunity
for others
to see and read what people have to say is
not very
productive.
All
the best and belated Happy and Energetic New
Year.
Anil
Nimbkar
Agricultural Research
Institute (NARI)
Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road
P.O.Box 44
Phaltan-415523, Maharashtra, India
Ph:91-2166-220945/222842
e-mail:nariphaltan at gmail.com
nariphaltan at nariphaltan.org
http://www.nariphaltan.org
On Sun, Jan
15, 2017 at 3:05 AM, Todd
Albi <todd.r.albi at gmail.com>
wrote:
Tom:
Nikhil
has provided valuable
input numerous times, like others on
this site. I
doubt any of the stove community
embraces everything
posted here, by anyone. Biomass
is a black
science, as well is biochar, with
numerous
variables, politics, ego's, and
other agenda's
involved. Many of Nikhil's posts
are spot on and
raises salient points.
So
let's live and let live and
let everyone have their say, even if we
are or are
not in agreement. The stove community
members are
adults and can decide what information
is of
valuable, or not of valuable. Thanks
for the list,
but censorship is an inappropriate
response.
Todd
Albi, SilverFire
www.silverfire.us
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