[Stoves] Fuel qualities as the limiting factor, and getting rid of WBT (Was: Frank on helium surrogate)

[Traveller]

Frank:

Pray tell, why is that a critical feature - starting with the fuel and
ending with a completed cooking task?

I never saw mere heating water as a major "cooking task", nor the relevance
of various measurements of combustion efficiency, heat transfer
efficiency,control efficiency, all measured in reference to particular fuel
and particular pot.

This is a decades old obsession of bean-counters of thermodynamic
efficiency, fuel consumption, trees saved, etc. that has a partial but not
a controlling place in design of usable cookstoves for specific uses in
specific contexts of cooking and markets for fuels.

Now WBT is extended to CO and PM2.5 hourly emission rates, no matter that
the rather baseless WHO IAQ Guideline is in terms of annual average
exposure.

I submit WBT has no valid purpose. I am not technically qualified to
address whether any other test is any better, just that if performance
metrics are not relevant to the cook, no matter of lab fanaticism will get
the biomass stove movement anywhere.

Time to question purported science. If it doesn't serve the needs, it is
deficient. We didn't  use thermodynamicists alone to design furniture, did
we? And furniture is a bigger business than biomass stoves.

I go back to my very post back in June or July -- what is the service
standard and what is the objective of standard setting? Nobody has yet
dared to propose an answer.

Nikhil

(India +91) 909 995 2080


On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 11:33 PM, Frank Shields <franke at cruzio.com> wrote:

> The water test must NOT ‘Go’. It is just a test procedure that needs
> modification FOR THE PURPOSE of what we want to interpret the results. It
> is the only test I have seen where we start with the FUEL and end with a
> completed COOKING TASK. Starting with the fuel and ending with a completed
> task is a MUST.
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
>
> On Jan 27, 2017, at 9:33 AM, Traveller <miata98 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Frank:
>
> Thank you. This comports well with my understanding of coal combustion in
> industrial/power generation use and also childhood experience with woody
> fuels and charcoal.
>
> Specifying lab tests with "oak", "spruce" etc. is intellectual
> imperialism. WBT must go from IWA.
>
> Nikhil
>
>
> ---------
> (India +91) 909 995 2080
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 3:26 PM, Frank Shields <franke at cruzio.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> You ask:
>>
>> I have two reasons to ask:
>>
>> a) the importance of fuel chemistry (instead of some pre-specified wood,
>> having a range of locally used biomass or new processed biomass) at various
>> stages of combustion; and, On Jan 27, 2017, at 1:21 AM, Traveller <
>> miata98 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Others will know more; but the chemistry of the biomass (carbon particle
>> density, packing carbon density, void space, fixed and volatile fractions,
>> moisture, ash  etc.) is much more important to know than ‘oak’ or ‘spruce’.
>> I believe its the preparation of the gases before entering the secondary
>> thats most important and thinking we might be able to make adjustments if
>> we can learn the mix that burned hot and clean. I’m thinking the helium
>> surrogate thats bled in with the primary air at a very controlled and
>> constant rate will be very useful when monitoring the gases entering the
>> secondary. I’m sure someone must have tried this. Perhaps Tom Reed or Jim
>> Jetter?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Frank
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Frank
>> Frank Shields
>> Gabilan Laboratory
>> Keith Day Company, Inc.
>> 1091 Madison Lane
>> Salinas, CA  93907
>> (831) 246-0417 cell
>> (831) 771-0126 office
>> fShields at keithdaycompany.com
>>
>>
>>
>> franke at cruzio.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
> Frank Shields
> Gabilan Laboratory
> Keith Day Company, Inc.
> 1091 Madison Lane
> Salinas, CA  93907
> (831) 246-0417 cell
> (831) 771-0126 office
> fShields at keithdaycompany.com
>
>
>
> franke at cruzio.com
>
>
>
>
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