[Stoves] Siegert anti-equilibrium formula

Wed Nov 1 08:56:09 CDT 2017

Thanks for that advice Philip.

We are using it for space heating stoves, using the following approach:

Water heating for low pressure boiler, direct measurement of the flow rate [cc/sec 0.1] and [∆T ˚C 0.01]

Cooking heat gained, ditto, save that the working fluid in the pot and in a heat exchanger are tracked separately [J]

Heat available from fuel fed [J]

Calculated stack losses, Siegert with CO compensation [J]

Space heating from the stove, either as a space heater or a low pressure boiler, inside or outside the heated envelope, is

Heat available – stack loss = space heating.

Heat available – stack loss – low pressure boiler water heating = space heating.

CSA Method B415.1:2010 uses a ‘manually’ calculated method of getting the stack losses per gas, per 5 minutes. This is OK save that the moisture content of missing fuel is assumed.

In theory the B415.1 method can be turned into a simplified formula with constants but the spreadsheet (which is not normative, BTW) doesn’t do that.

I want to know how the constants presented in many tables were calculated. The big surprise is that it is so hard to find out. CAU students have been looking for three years. References and tables are everywhere but no formulae. Maybe we are supposed to work it out ourselves, which is fine, but that does not tell “what they were thinking” at the time.

The Siegert calculation without CO compensation can be significantly in error so the simple version is not recommendable. We know the constants are based on the fuel composition, which means they can be recalculated in real time if we know what the decombusted ultimate analysis is, in real time. That is where I am headed.

There are multiple approaches taken to calculating the CO2Max, just as there are different ways to calculate excess air (most of which are wrong). This is a good time to bring some discipline to the calculations, particularly with the (very good) B415.1 method accepted by Canada and the EPA and the committee is being reconstituted.

It is full of combustion chemistry – I think you would approve!

Crispin

-----Original Message-----
From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of plloyd at mweb.co.za
Sent: 1-Nov-17 09:16
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Siegert anti-equilibrium formula

There are various versions in the old literature, but the list is short.  Siegert is OK on decent sized boilers; no good for small appliances because it focuses on stack heat losses. Conduction/radiation losses from small equipment are large enough to get wrong answers.

Philip

----- Original Message -----

From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at outlook.com<mailto:crispinpigott at outlook.com>>

To: "Stoves (stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org<mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>)" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org<mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>>

Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 3:34:43 PM

Subject: [Stoves] Siegert anti-equilibrium formula

Dear Friends

Does anyone know of a reference to the Siegert anti-equilibrium formula?

While you are at it, does anyone have a good reference for the calculation of the Siegert variables from different fuels (not a table, the formulae)?

Thanks

Crispin

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