[Stoves] Air pollution in cities

Wed Nov 22 04:14:48 CST 2017

With no disrespect to Tom Miles, I would take the numbers from China with a
barrel of salt! Having being invited once in 2007 by the Prime Minister'
Office in China I saw first hand the exaggeration in data and numbers.

All the best.

Anil

Nimbkar Agricultural Research Institute (NARI)
Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road
P.O.Box 44
Phaltan-415523, Maharashtra, India
Ph:+91-9168937964
e-mail:nariphaltan at gmail.com
           nariphaltan at nariphaltan.org

http://www.nariphaltan.org

http://nariphaltan.org/about-2/awards/  Awards for NARI staff
http://nariphaltan.org/nari-in-press/  NARI in press

On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com> wrote:

> The numbers we report here are correct. There will be more details later.
> 3 million tons refers to the straw input. This program is just to reduce
> emissions from crop residues. The plants are just being built and sized
> initially for only a fraction of the available crop residue in each
> province so the impact on air quality will be slow to emerge. Policy will
> soon be in place to account for the carbon in the biochar fertilizers. This
> is a community and county scale project with industrial pyrolysis.
> Cookstoves are not included in this program. If pellets go into stoves it
> will be a collateral benefit.
>
> Tom
>
> T R Miles Technical Consultants Inc.
> tmiles at trmiles.com
> Sent from mobile.
>
> On Nov 22, 2017, at 2:38 PM, Ronal W. Larson <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> Tom:  cc Stoves and adding “biochar” list
>
> 1:  I understand sending this message to “stoves”  because of the emphasis
> on air quality in this thread.   But being also so much on biochar (and not
> stoves), several questions for both lists.
>
> 2.   Re the stoves side first - is there any evidence that the straw
> pellets could be headed towards char-making - in stoves?    Or char-making
> elsewhere?  Both methods for soil improvement?   Or are most of the pellets
> now headed only for combustion?  (And the char used for biochar in most of
> your report coming from forests or municipal sources or manure, etc?)
> Any way to say how much the outdoor air quality has been impacted so far?
> I sure hope a good bit of the char in soil came from cookstoves!!
>
> 3.   Re biochar:   You said below: “*They have tested the biochar
> fertilizer products in the field at more than 300 sites with impressive
> results.**”    *Might this “impressive” mean an annual NPP improvement of
> 25%  …… 50%??
>
> 4.  I think your 200,000 and 800,000 numbers say a quadrupling in one
> year.  True?  (I don’t think cell phone sales moved that fast.)
>
> 5.  On the biochar list, a few months ago, I noted an error at the IBI
> website’s report on the current 5-year Chinese biochar goals.  There was
> some agreement that this might have occurred because of a translation error
> related to numerical units that DIDN’T correspond to our increasing the
> major units by factors of 1000  (thousands , millions, billions, trillions,
> etc.  Are we pretty sure that this 3 million number is to be compared to
> 200,000, as fifth and first year values?
> I just looked at the IBI site  (http://www.biochar-
> international.org/node/8858) and don’t see the same numbers - but still
> talking about a five year plan. Any further detail on this Chinese 5-year
> plan in print anywhere?
> Is the 3 million number below  for input or output?
>
> Whatever the details, was it clear that China is going to outperform
> everybody in biochar as much as they already have in wind and solar?  (and
> what part of that might happen with stoves)?
>
> Nice report.  Thanks.
>
> Ron
>
> On Nov 21, 2017, at 6:56 AM, Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com> wrote:
>
> China is making a substantial effort to reduce air pollution. We have just
> completed the “2nd China-Asian Workshop on Biochar Production and
> Application for Green Agriculture -From Technology to Viable Systems” at
> Nanjing University and the International Biochar Initiative Asia-China
> center. Scientists and companies from around the region attended. We
> visited plants converting straws, manure, and biosolids to biochar and
> biochar fertilizers. China has invested in many biochar plants in Northern
> China, primarily to reduce air pollution, improve yields and soil
> fertility, and sequester carbon. They are currently building about 50
> biochar plants. They have located a biochar plant in each of several
> provinces. They have tested the biochar fertilizer products in the field at
> more than 300 sites with impressive results. They have set up farmer coops
> and businesses to collect and densify crop residues at harvest. The pellets
> are used to store the straw and improve the efficiency for the process used
> to make the biochar, recover oils and vinegars, and convert the biochar
> into fertilizers that can be used by local for fertilizers. They have
> methods to account for the sequestered carbon. They grow more food with
> less fertilizer while reducing air pollution and sequestering carbon. Last
> year they converted 200,000 tons of crop residues to biochar. This year
> they expect to convert 800,000 tons of crop residues to biochar and biochar
> products. That is expected to grow to three million tons within five years.
> It is profitable for the farmers and for the biochar fertilizer companies.
>
>
> Organizations through the region will be working with the International
> Biochar Association to demonstrate ways to reduce are pollution from crop
> residues by converting part of the residue to biochar and biochar products
> to smallholders and large crop producers.
>
> Tom
> Chair, International Biochar Initiative
> <image001.jpg>
>
>
> *From:* Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>] *On Behalf Of *Crispin
> Pemberton-Pigott
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 21, 2017 9:22 PM
> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.
> org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Air pollution in cities
>
> Dear Nikhil
>
> I used to live in Ibadan, Nigeria. During the Harmattan the air turns into
> a permanent (so it seems) copy of a Delhi photo. It is perfectly natural
> and perfectly dreadful.
>
> "On its passage over the Sahara, it picks up fine dust and sand particles
> (between 0.5 and 10 microns).‎"
>
> "In some countries in West Africa, the heavy amount of dust in the air can
> severely limit visibility and block the sun for several days,[8]
> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmattan#cite_note-8> comparable to a
> heavy fog <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog>.‎"
>
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmattan
>
> Yup. Sounds right. Now, is the burning of agricultural wastes natural too?
> Is everything people do unnatural? Cooking too?
>
> Regards
> Crispin
>
>
> ‎
> Crispin:
>
> Clean air is not a luxury
> <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.livemint.com%2FTechnology%2FUrRkv3afeGi3Xt5hXKTFGK%2FClean-air-is-not-a-luxury.html&data=02%7C01%7Ccrispinpigott%40outlook.com%7C06c1bc30d31c4473098d08d530c362b1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636468538083757936&sdata=qE85ZwyzrXoQsJFJoX4OIIVgMqZE8b8Wv6MV6uY5RnM%3D&reserved=0> Vishal
> Mathur Mint 14 November 2017.
>
> I don't know what death chamber like conditions are. But no single
> technology is an answer to air pollution which varies by season, day, time
> of day, location, mobility.
>
> There are proper methods for air quality monitoring and air modeling, then
> a cost and schedule program has to be generated for each location. Some
> fuel or activity bans may work, and episodic situations like Delhi recently
> require emergency response measures. Just look up EPA color codes and local
> government responsibilities.
>
> A 40-year program. Little to do with ISO Tier 4 PM2.5 ERT.
>
> You ought to be in Delhi in a sand storm period to appreciate that the
> picture in Anil's essay conveys the right image. Leave aside toxicity
> arguments for WHO.
>
> Nikhil
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Nikhil Desai
>
> (US +1) 202 568 5831 <(202)%20568-5831>
> *Skype: nikhildesai888*
>
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 10:11 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
> crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Anil
>
> I think this is a bit over the top:
>
> “This did not allow the smog and dust to disperse into higher atmosphere,
> thereby creating death chamber like conditions on the ground.”
>
> It is common hear claims that breathing air in such-and-such a place is
> “like smoking 2 packs of cigarettes a day”. I provided here at least one
> calculation of what people are exposed to in a city.
>
> First, PM is not equally toxic. The agricultural residue burning makes
> really ‘bad smoke’ stinging the eyes at 400 µg/m3. Coal smoke and vehicle
> smoke has nothing like the same effect, with the proviso that coal smoke
> varies a lot depending on what the source device is. Having experienced
> 3000 µg/m3 I can report that stubble burning is way worse than coal smoke.
>
> Second, just because someone places a number on paper does not make people
> sick. People who have ‘pre-existing conditions’ are at risk from all sorts
> of things. One of my childhood neighbours, an adult woman, was allergic to
> house dust and lived in a hermetically sealed home – but smoked! There is
> no pleasing some people…
>
> So…the photo in the article is taken over a long distance and zoomed, so
> you are looking ‘through’ perhaps a km or more of air. The BBC frequently
> shows pictures in Beijing taken in the same way – showing morning mist as
> ‘pollution’ when there really isn’t much to show.  How bad is Delhi air
> compared with living in an apartment in which one person smokes? Do the
> math. There is no city air as bad as sharing a flat with a smoker.
>
> The smouldering garbage and wet leaves story is typical of *real* pollution
> in cities. Absolutely awful with a huge emission rate per kg. The inversion
> in Delhi is a good example of what happens in Ulaanbaatar in winter –
> daily. Sometimes there is no wind, like last winter. Living in the city was
> like smoking ¼ of a cigarette per day in terms of exposure. I am not
> recommending it, but it is completely untrue that it is like ‘smoking 2
> packs a day’.
>
> What rubbish.
>
> Anil, what is the right balance to portray between factual alarm and
> alarming facts?
>
> Thanks
> Crispin
>
>
>
>
> My blog which appeared as front page news in Huffington Post.
>
> http://m.huffingtonpost.in/dr-anil-k-rajvanshi/there-are-
> various-ways-devised-in-india-itself-to-reduce-pollution-
> from-stubble-burning_a_23281512/?utm_hp_ref=in-homepage
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fm.huffingtonpost.in%2Fdr-anil-k-rajvanshi%2Fthere-are-various-ways-devised-in-india-itself-to-reduce-pollution-from-stubble-burning_a_23281512%2F%3Futm_hp_ref%3Din-homepage&data=02%7C01%7Ccrispinpigott%40outlook.com%7C48d1d810b735421177c808d52ffc58c3%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636467683224884788&sdata=zmIWiqX3Z47qDluqiBnaEc9haY7z50uaiyodY1KLu4M%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Cheers.
>
> Anil Rajvanshi
>
>
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