[Stoves] Radical ideas from Paul and Philip {re: stoves and credits again}

Mon Oct 2 15:32:41 CDT 2017

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:43 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:

> Nikhil, loved the pic.? *Have you ever seen this set of photos of the
> charcoal traders who take it up the coast by dhow...an incredible serious
> of shots - http://www.jokearneyphotography.com/charcoal-workers/
> <http://www.jokearneyphotography.com/charcoal-workers/> *
>
> It would be interesting to compare the delivered cost of LPG energy per MJ
> in the pot with charcoal. In both cases production inefficiencies would be
> ignored as they are large and only really matter if it affects the price.
>

*How would one account for, just like in the charcoal trade, the 'hidden'
costs of corruption associated with LPG gas
<http://www.nation.co.ke/news/1056-3459012-5fyba5z/index.html>. Would they
be less or more and/or differently distributed then in the current charcoal
market?  *

>
> A really good charcoal stove can compete in the same realm as a cheap
> propane stove in terms of thermal efficiency, and that is before any large
> investment is made in processed char fuels like pelletization.
>

*And in terms of taste, its probably the most argued about thing for early
summer BBQ enthusiasts on the Western World's foodie websites.*

> ‎I think that truck can carry a heck of a lot of energy in one load.  A
> twenty ton load would be about 600 gigaJoules. That is about the same
> energy as is contained in 13.3 tons of propane, but the propane needs metal
> cylinders greatly increasing the total transported mass.
>
> Anyone have a metal mass per kg fuel mass number?
>
> So in terms of transport alone, charcoal is far more efficient than LPG.
> Remember the LPG empties have to be transported back. The charcoal truck
> can take goods to the rural areas on the return trip.
>

And dhows can bring consumer goods etc back from the middle east.

>
> As a renewable product, charcoal might get an extra nod as well. ‎If a
> rational system-wide examination of the potential for charcoal as a
> domestic fuel were to be conducted, it might bring surprising ideas to the
> table. A charcoal fueled fan stove would be small, powerful, controllable
> and very clean burning.
>
> Who represents 'Big Charcoal'? **crickets* chirping....the last guy
> <https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Expectations-Charcoal-Njenga-Karume/dp/9966257411>seems
> to have moved on. *
>
> Regards
> Crispin
>
>
>
>
> Crispin:
>
> Char-making stoves - household or commercial - can rapidly meet the
> cooking market where LPG and electricity are not accessible in volumes.
>
> Except where population densities are very high and multi-story buildings
> and heavy traffic the rule rather than the exception, high-quality wood
> stoves combined with expansion of charcoal is probably a "good enough"
> interim solution.
>
> I mean, for several decades, for roughly 250+ million new households
> (couples, with or without new children) over the next 15-20 years.
>
> Those latte-sipping poverty pundits who want to bring all the poor from
> 19th Century to 21st Century in 15 years still need to keep in mind that
> from the 1920s to the 1990s or later, some 250+ million households a year
> (average) in the developing world used charcoal.
>
> I ought to write an energy history of the poor. For a million dollar
> advance. The Library of Congress is just a few miles away.
>
> Since you wrote of Kenya possibly exporting charcoal to Rwanda or South
> Sudan, I suspect the Somali-Yemen charcoal trade is disrupted these days. A
> picture of charcoal  truck below attached. See a piece from the Economist
> three  years ago - Charcoal and terrorism in Somalia - A charred harvest: The
> unlikely link between Gulf lounges and Somalia’s jihadists
> <https://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21623793-unlikely-link-between-gulf-lounges-and-somalias-jihadists-charred-harvest>
> and another around that time UN Orders Ship Searches Off Somalia to Find
> Weapons, Charcoal
> <http://gcaptain.com/un-orders-ship-searches-off-somalia-to-find-weapons-charcoal/>
> .
>
> What does WHO know?
>
> Nikhil
>
>
>
>
> [image: Inline image 1]
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
> crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear All
>>
>>
>>
>> “Kenya loses 7,000 acres of woodland to cooking;”
>>
>> I presume the author means annual net loss of tree cover.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, Kenya is covered in pretty good growing land, What is the government
>> doing to ensure the security of supply of energy to the biomass burning
>> sector? Any national energy policy document has a section in it called
>> “Security of Supply” and is usually filled with text about stores of
>> gasoline and oil products. I believe (without good documentation) that
>> Swaziland was the first country to include biomass for domestic consumption
>> in the Green Paper and White Paper version of their national energy
>> strategy.
>>
>>
>>
>> 7000 acres of woodland is nothing for a country the size and wealth of
>> Kenya. What are they doing about it? Rwanda, a tiny and heavily populated
>> country, manages to grow all their biomass fuel requirements, what’s up
>> with Kenya? It is 22 times the size and has only 3.8 times the population.
>>
>>
>>
>> Clearly the loss of forest cover for the energy needs of domestic
>> consumers is caused by a policy failure, not a lack of resources or
>> opportunity.
>>
>>
>>
>> The selling point for the Swaziland policy was that 77% of the population
>> relied on biomass for their energy needs. The original draft had not a
>> single mention of this in terms of ‘doing something’ to ensure that biomass
>> will continue to be available indefinitely.
>>
>>
>>
>> In British Columbia there is a long standing rule that if you cut a tree
>> for some commercial use you have to plant three more. Thus, while it may
>> look as if they are ‘clear cutting the forest’ in fact they are farming
>> vast areas on a 70 year cycle. The fact that is it longer than a human
>> working cycle is immaterial.
>>
>>
>>
>> Trees grow very well in Kenya. In the very dry areas Dr St Barbe Baker
>> recommended the planting of peach trees which are not only useful for food,
>> they provide very good quality firewood. It was his opinion that the desert
>> in the NW could be continuously pushed back by planting peach trees on the
>> margin. They are extremely heat resistance and drought resistant too (there
>> is a drought cycle in that region tied to the Hadley Cells and how they
>> evolve cyclically).
>>
>>
>>
>> As Nikhil points out, if there is no shortage of free fuel, fuel
>> efficiency is not necessarily an issue. They could even make charcoal and
>> ship it to Rwanda or South Sudan.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Crispin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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