[Stoves] Aprovecho's ISO certificates

[Crispin Pemberton-Pigott]

Dear Xavier

I have not seen any certificates so I can’t say. As I see it, to issue any sort of certificate you would have to have permission to do so, which would involve proving you could do it.

I am sure the idea is that the testing is done using the new (just recently published) method contained in the DIS ISO 19867-1 (the Draft). The contents of the document are not public until the DIS has been put out for comment by country regulators. In other words the offer (which has been on the website for a while now) was to test using a protocol that has not been assessed, or published, or validated or is even known. I am not sure how one could do that. You’d pretty much have to tell the customer what the protocol was and it is not to be shared outside the TC.

Now that it is available, there are some thing worth noting about it (the test method) and the equipment, as we have been talking about the equipment. In order to place a stove on a tier, you have to demonstrate that there is replicability within a certain range. In the IWA the range is given, but the test method is incapable of producing it. That is a conundrum. In the DIS there are equipment requirements (accuracy and precision). However if you were to use equipment which barely met the criteria (legal but, just) and propagate the uncertainties – is it possible to place a stove on a single tier? That is a very important question. Just because some equipment gives you an answer, doesn’t mean it is one of acceptable quality.

This deserves some attention into the future. There was proposed some time ago a way of handling different sets of apparatus and the uncertainty about the final answer. Fabio Riva discussed this extensively, even comprehensively, in his analysis of the WBT. The proposal was to generate an average for a metric, say efficiency, then penalize the rating with 1 or 2 sigma (standard deviations) away from the average. In the case of efficiency it would be to down-rate the stove based on the variability of the results. A stove with a large variability, being sensitive to small fuel moisture changes, for example, would have a higher Sigma 2 value and therefore be reduced more than a stove with more consistent performance.

This approach automatically permits the use of lower quality apparatus but still permits it to be used for rating. This technology- neutral approach allows a lab to get started and then develop capacity over time.

Regards
Crispin


Hello Crispin,

« The ISO is not a testing organisation and does not issue certificates. No one can issue an 'ISO Certificate' because they don't exist. »
If that is the case, that is a fraudulent claim, a false advertising.
Clients are being sold a false ISO certificate. More than that, the test is done with a WBT, which result means nothing.

See below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_advertising

I guess that would come under « manipulation of terms ».

In the U.S., false or misleading advertising is illegal. Advertising is regulated throught the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), and the Lanham Act.

Best,

Xavier

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