[Stoves] Early Nariphaltan gasification work (formerly Declaration about Woodgas
Ronal W. Larson
rongretlarson at comcast.net
Sat Oct 21 10:01:02 CDT 2017
Anil, cc list
1. Thanks for the reminder on your early (I think) up-draft char-maker. I looked unsuccessfully for more detail on your quite-large device. Can you identify a URL for detail on the gasfiier (as opposed to the syrup publication) as seen in Figure 3.
2. Also, I can’t find a non-fee location for your reference 9 by Foley and Barnard on gasification. (FAO from 1983). Anyone have that on line?
3. I hope we can have more dialog on the “lethality" of wood or producer gas - as it applies to small cookstoves. When a TLUD flame is extinguished by wind or near the end of a run, the acrid fumes can be very disturbing until either relit or the stove is completely shut down (zero air supply). In a normal operation, the acrid smoke is of course not seen nor expected.
My main question is whether anyone has ever experienced an explosion? When relighting a TLUD stove there can be a small scary burst of flame - but I wouldn’t call it an explosion. This is a good reason for instructions on relighting, should that be needed.
Rocket stoves can presumably suffer from the same problem, when they go out?
Regarding lethality, I recall hearing that a favorite method of suicide (Singapore or Hong Kong?) is with a stove in a small closed room. We must all be very conscious of adequate ventilation - as Anil has emphasized.
Ron
> On Oct 20, 2017, at 8:28 PM, nari phaltan <nariphaltan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Paul. We used producer gas for cooking in late 90s quite a lot for producing syrup from sweet sorghum. The details are at; www.nariphaltan.org/sorghum.pdf <http://www.nariphaltan.org/sorghum.pdf> together with photos.
>
> Wood gas (producer gas) is a clean fuel but dangerous since it is a mixture of CO and H2. If not used with proper ventilation it can be lethal. In closed house environments it is not advisable to use it.
>
> Anil
>
>
> Nimbkar Agricultural Research Institute (NARI)
> Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road
> P.O.Box 44
> Phaltan-415523, Maharashtra, India
> Ph:+91-9168937964
> e-mail:nariphaltan at gmail.com <mailto:e-mail%3Anariphaltan at gmail.com>
> nariphaltan at nariphaltan.org <mailto:nariphaltan at nariphaltan.org>
>
> http://www.nariphaltan.org <http://www.nariphaltan.org/>
>
> http://nariphaltan.org/about-2/awards/ <http://nariphaltan.org/about-2/awards/> Awards for NARI staff
> http://nariphaltan.org/nari-in-press/ <http://nariphaltan.org/nari-in-press/> NARI in press
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 9:36 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>> wrote:
> Crispin,
> Thanks for the good comments.
>
> Many details will be eventually ironed out. Much will depend on the response from the many many participants. You wrote:
> This is Big Gas against Big Oil. Perhaps you need to create Big Wood and straighten both of them out.
> Is there really much clash between Big Gas and Big Oil? Wood is already BIG, but not big in the organized way and it is being burned poorly. Maybe it should become Big Biomass (more encompassing) IN RELATION TO HOUSEHOLD ENERGY. The pellet-fuel companies would be part.
>
> The strength (and weakness) of Big Biomass (as fuel) is that it is so dispersed and is found almost everywhere.
>
> Paul
>
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072 <tel:%2B1-309-452-7072>
> Website: www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com/>
>
> On 10/20/2017 9:51 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
> Dear Paul
>
> I appreciate that you are on the right track.
>
> I know it is not absolute in the same manner, but could you say, "Woodgas can be a clean fuel too"?
>
> I am concerned that you correct say in the beginning that no fuel is clean on its own, an opinion shared widely, because it depends on how you burn it.
>
> Then it says further down that woodgas is a clean fuel, without the qualification contained in the earlier statement.
>
> Would you be better off saying something that undermines the incorrect notion that 'there are clean fuels and dirty fuels' and reinforces what is true: that ways and means exist to burn fuels cleanly and they should be used.
>
> I am not all that happy with "Woodgas can be a clean fuel too" because without context it is basically bandwagonning behind a dead horse. Like the WBT low power metrics, it has to be dragged off to the glue factory.
>
> No fuel is inherently clean by all definitions. Not even woodgas. How far can you take on the problem of the misrepresentation of scientific truth, while still pointing out that woodgas can be created and burned very cleanly, by any definition?
>
> I guarantee that those intending to profit from the misrepresentation will not help you. This is Big Gas against Big Oil. Perhaps you need to create Big Wood and straighten both of them out.
>
> Regards
> Crispin
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>] On Behalf Of Paul Anderson
> Sent: 19-Oct-17 22:16
> To: Doc Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>>
> Subject: [Stoves] Declaration about Woodgas
>
> Stovers, Charists, and all,
>
> I have prepared a "Declaration of Clean Cooking with Woodgas" for everyone's consideration. A copy of the version as of today's date
> 2017-10-19 is attached, or you can get it at https://woodgas.com/declaration/ <https://woodgas.com/declaration/> where any revisions will be available. Therefore, there is still time for your comments to be considered. This is now available several days before the start of the
> 2017 GACC Forum in Delhi, which I will be attending and will hear some feedback about this "Woodgas Declaration."
>
> The bulk of the page has the justification statements: "Whereas ......." (10 of them.) And based on the truth of those statements, then comes the declarations:
>
> "now, therefore be it
> DECLARED ...... that:
> 1. there are no "clean fuels" per se, but they can be “clean” (by definitions that are subject to discussion) only when properly combusted in appropriate, specialized combustion devices (burners and stoves), and fuels by themselves are neither clean nor dirty;
>
> 2. woodgas is a clean fuel when appropriate micro-gasifiers with designated solid fuels are used by adequately-experienced cookstove users;
>
> 3. woodgas has the potential to reach hundreds of millions of households to provide cleaner cooking while using smaller quantities of their current, locally-available fuel supplies, and all with sustainable financing, reduced expenditures, and even potential net profit;
>
> 4. leaders, authorities and all parties interested in clean cookstoves should recognize in words, writings, actions and financial support that solid biomass can become a very clean-burning fuel for cooking in woodgas stoves for millions of households; and
>
> 5. the expression “Woodgas is a Clean Fuel” is more than a motto, and it should be a guiding principle for prompt actions to assist at least one billion of the most underserved people on Earth, this being a most worthy goal that also has realistic prospects for being accomplished with honorable expedience. "
>
> Please participate in the discussions. I start my trip to India early on Saturday, so please discuss without expecting me to make replies promptly.
>
> Paul
>
> --
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072 <tel:%2B1-309-452-7072>
> Website: www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com/>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org>
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ <http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org>
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ <http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20171021/8770fd30/attachment.html>
More information about the Stoves
mailing list