[Stoves] Calculating cooking costs and char costs ----Re: [biochar] Where to discuss STOVES AND CARBON offsets and drawdown

Mark E. Ludlow mark at ludlow.com
Sat Sep 16 21:31:29 CDT 2017


That's an acute observation, Paul, because so much of any productive process is the prime importance of Recovery. Simply citing an earlier paper in something so essential as throughput efficiency, is a little disappointing. Are CO2 and CO part of that 47%?

-------- Original message --------
From: "Paul Anderson psanders at ilstu.edu [biochar]" <biochar at yahoogroups.com> 
Date: 2017/09/16  15:49  (GMT-08:00) 
To: biochar at yahoogroups.com, 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves' <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> 
Cc: hsmclaughlin at verizon.net 
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Calculating cooking costs and char costs ----Re: [biochar] Where to discuss STOVES AND CARBON offsets and drawdown 


 



  


    
      
      
      
  
  
    tom,

    

    This quote is from Pam Jagger's article, and cites Ryan.

    We
        assume that dry mass can be converted to carbon mass using 47%C
        (Ryan et al., 2011), 
    What does   "  47%C " actually mean?   That is not the same as   "%
    yield of charcoal compared to dry-weight of biomass"   

    

    Who can explain such a process with such a high yield of
    charcoal?    I did not think that it is possible, unless it is a bit
    beyond torrified wood.

    

    Paul

    Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com
    On 9/16/2017 12:05 PM,
      tmiles at trmiles.com [biochar] wrote:

    
    
      
       
      
          
            
              We
                  could estimate the potential carbon products and
                  benefits (or costs) from TLUDs using known data from
                  TLUD efficiency tests and real examples. For example,
                  what impact could a TLUD have on the scenario tested
                  in the work in Malawi that was posted yesterday by Pam
                  Jagger? 
               
              “Similarly,
                  the average amount of fuelwood collected was estimated
                  at 1878 kg per year per household, or 187,800 kg of
                  fuelwood per year per village. We relate the fuelwood
                  use in kilograms to hectares to better quantify the
                  regional forest impact. From the rural exposure
                  monitoring data set, we find the average moisture
                  content of the fuel (woody miombo biomass) to be 10%.
                  Beginning with the baseline fuelwood use of 187,800 kg
                  of fuelwood per year per village, if we assume a 10%
                  moisture content, the baseline fuelwood is equivalent
                  to 170,700 kg of dry fuelwood. We assume that dry mass
                  can be converted to carbon mass using 47%C (Ryan et
                  al., 2011), resulting in 80,240 kgC per year per
                  village. A study of carbon stocks in miombo woodland
                  in Mozambique found that woody biomass totaled 33.3
                  tC/ha (Ryan et al., 2011). If we assume similar
                  composition of woodland, we find that the baseline
                  case results in a miombo woodland deforestation rate
                  of approximately 2.41 ha per year per village.” 
               
              What
                  impact could a TLUD have on 1878 kg/household per
                  year? How much biochar/charcoal would be produced and
                  at what value?  
               
              Health
                  Alert: Reading Pam’s paper could raise Nikhil’s blood
                  pressure. : - ) 
               
              Tom
                  

                   
               
              
                
                  From:
                      Stoves
                      [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On
                        Behalf Of kchisholm at seaside.ns.ca

                      Sent: Friday, September 15, 2017 10:00 PM

                      To: biochar at yahoogroups.com;
                      ndesai at alum.mit.edu; 'Discussion of biomass'
                      <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>

                      Cc: hsmclaughlin at verizon.net

                      Subject: Re: [Stoves] Calculating cooking
                      costs and char costs ----Re: [biochar] Where to
                      discuss STOVES AND CARBON offsets and drawdown
                
              
               
              Hi
                  Paul
               
              
                
                  From: biochar at yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com]
                      

                      Sent: Friday, September 15, 2017 11:03 PM

                      To: biochar at yahoogroups.com;
                      ndesai at alum.mit.edu;
                      'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves' <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>

                      Cc: 'Hugh McLaughlin' <hsmclaughlin at verizon.net>

                      Subject: Re: [Stoves] Calculating cooking
                      costs and char costs ----Re: [biochar] Where to
                      discuss STOVES AND CARBON offsets and drawdown
                
              
               
                
              
                
                  
                    Kevin,
                    
                      Note
                          also that the purpose of this particular
                          Spread Sheet was to give an approximate value
                          to char produced by TLUD’s. 
                    
                    In that regard, char value is a
                      function of char yield and biomass fuel cost. 
                     
                    #
                        Yes.
                     
                      The number of meals cooked
                      would not then an issue, and the spreadsheet
                      contains cells that are  derived but are not  part
                      of the "solution."   Too much "extra" that is not
                      needed in the  spreadsheet.
                     
                    #
                        The way the spread sheet really works is to
                        determine net available energy, (after drying
                        losses) and then proportions the fuel cost
                        between the energy in the TLUD fuel gas, and the
                        energy in the char. I added the “number of
                        meals” so that the Cook would see the cost
                        consequences of burning the char as an
                        additional source of energy, to reduce the need
                        to purchase additional fuel. However, you are
                        quite right… it is not really necessary to know
                        the number of meals cooked per unit of fuel, to
                        determine the value of char.
                     
                    #
                        The way the spread sheet is set up now, all the
                        energy loss associated with water in the
                        incoming fuel is credited to the TLUD gas
                        stream. The result is a (slightly) overstated
                        cost for the energy content of the TLUD gas, and
                        a (slightly) understated cost of the char. The
                        error could be significant with significantly
                        higher moisture content of the incoming wood
                        fuel.
                    

                      

                      If the purpose is to bring in also the number of
                      meals, then there is more work to be done. 
                      Forexample, it is not as simple  as the assumption
                      that energy needed per meal served would be the
                      same for cooking with the pyrolytic gases as for
                      cooking with the charcoal fuel. 
                     
                    #
                        Agreed. However, the spread sheet does appear to
                        give a good “initial value for char” in relation
                        to the value of carbon credit payments. If wood
                        fuel costs were much lower, and/or carbon credit
                        payments were much higher, then a more rigorous
                        treatment would be required to determine the
                        “Break Even Carbon Credit Payment more
                        accurately.
                     
                    Therefore the spreadsheet
                      contains too few actual  "variables", most of
                      which could be strongly impacted by the
                      socio-cultural context.   This would be not enough
                      "extra" that should be put into the spreadsheet.
                     
                    #
                        A more rigorous spread sheet could indeed be
                        built, but it would require a number of
                        additional inputs. Such additional inputs would
                        include:
                    *
                        Wood analysis
                    *
                        Calorific value
                    *
                        Moisture content
                    *
                        Energy content of the pyrolytic gas stream
                    *
                        Pyrolytic gas combustion efficiency
                    *
                        Pyrolytic gas stove efficiency
                    *
                        Accurate charcoal yield
                    *
                        Calorific value of charcoal
                    *
                        Charcoal combustion efficiency
                    *
                        Charcoal stove efficiency
                    *
                        Etc.
                    

                      You have made your point that it is possible that
                      the value of the char from a TLUD stove might be
                      greater if burned than  if sequestered into soil
                      as biochar.   This can be discussed in  general
                      terms.   It will not be resolved with a refined
                      quantitative / financial analysis.  The question
                      remains open:  How is the value of char from a
                      more efficient cookstove (TLUD vs 3-stone) to be
                      judged?
                     
                    #
                        Actually, I would suggest that the present
                        spread sheet would be an excellent tool for
                        determining the value of char from a TLUD, a
                        3-Stone Fire, or other cooking system. You could
                        set up a very simple test cooking rice
                        sufficient for say 4 meals, and measure the wood
                        required, and the charcoal recovered. Knowing
                        the cost of the fuel per unit, the data could be
                        entered into the spread sheet to give a value
                        for the char produced from various stove
                        systems.
                     
                    Best
                        wishes,
                     
                    Kevin
                    

                      

                      Paul

                      

                      
                    Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
                    Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
                    Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
                    Website:  www.drtlud.com
                    
                      On 9/15/2017 5:35 PM, kchisholm at seaside.ns.ca
                        [biochar] wrote:
                    
                    
                        
                      
                        
                          Hi
                              Nikhil
                           
                          I
                              used the term “mealtime” more in the
                              context of a “cooking session”. Clearly, a
                              number of meals would be required at
                              “mealtime.”
                           
                          Knowing
                              the number of meals prepared at the
                              “mealtime”, one can then determine the
                              wood consumption per meal, and ultimately,
                              the “energy per meal.”
                           
                          Note
                              also that the “energy per meal” must be
                              used with caution, in that it will vary
                              with the nature of the meal. For example,
                              a meal of rice and fish could require a
                              different cooking time than when simmering
                              a stew or boiling eggs.
                           
                          Note
                              also that the purpose of this particular
                              Spread Sheet was to give an approximate
                              value to char produced by TLUD’s. Would
                              you have any further comments or
                              suggestions in how to improve it in this
                              regard?
                           
                          Thanks,
                              and Best wishes,
                           
                          Kevin
                          From:
                              Nikhil Desai [mailto:pienergy2008 at gmail.com]
                              

                              Sent: Friday, September 15, 2017
                              6:09 PM

                              To: Discussion of biomass cooking
                              stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>

                              Cc: kchisholm at seaside.ns.ca;
                              biochar <biochar at yahoogroups.com>;
                              Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin at verizon.net>

                              Subject: Re: [Stoves] Calculating
                              cooking costs and char costs ----Re:
                              [biochar] Where to discuss STOVES AND
                              CARBON offsets and drawdown
                           
                          
                            Paul: 

                              

                              Two comments: 

                              

                              1. If "mealtime" refers to a day (and 3
                              cooked meals per day), 1 kg wood per day
                              seems to be on the low side, unless it is
                              per capita. I remember that a "rule of
                              thumb" (or "expert estimate") back when
                              people prepared national energy balances,
                              was "1-2 kg wood per capita per
                              day". Of course, the gross input per
                              family depends on many factors including
                              efficiency, types of cooking tasks,
                              age/sex composition, ambient temperature
                              and wind patterns, and cook's whims;
                              however, if the per family net energy per
                              mealtime is 3.7 kWht or 5,750 Btu, I
                              suspect the family may be too poor to
                              afford enough food from scratch - relying
                              on more fresh vegetables or uncooked
                              materials or on partially prepared
                              purchased food. 

                              

                              This single number -- how much useful
                              (net) energy per family per year is
                              "required" on average in a given context -
                              would seem to be very useful, with some
                              assumed efficiencies,  for computations of
                              emissions and deforestation or loads
                              carried on heads or backs. But I have seen
                              very few such attempts. Any thoughts? I
                              will dig up some GACC studies. 

                              

                              2. The way the spreadsheet is set up, the
                              financial cost of fuelwood is the most
                              critical assumed parameter for the
                              breakeven carbon credit value (CCV). Only
                              at $0.02/kg cost of high-quality wood does
                              the CCV come close to today's price in the
                              EU ETS. Since the supply curves for both
                              wood and labor are likely to at least
                              somewhat upward sloping, the question
                              becomes, what is the potential - in global
                              terms - for biochar to compete with other
                              CDR options?  

                              

                              It would seem that biochar for CDR and
                              charmaking for local sales (as fuel) are
                              two entirely separate markets and will
                              probably remain that way for a long
                              while. 

                              

                              Does anybody have a good number for useful
                              cooking energy per household per year? 

                              

                              Nikhil

                              

                               
                            
                              
                                
                                  
                                    
                                      
                                        
                                          
                                            
                                              
                                                
                                                  
                                                    
                                                      
                                                        
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                           
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                        
                                                      
                                                    
                                                  
                                                
                                              
                                            
                                          
                                        
                                      
                                    
                                  
                                
                              
                               
                              
                                On Wed, Sep 13,
                                  2017 at 10:53 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>
                                  wrote:
                                
                                  
                                    Kevin,

                                      

                                      Thanks for the spreadsheet.  This
                                      is an interesting situation where
                                      calculated numbers are not
                                      matching with some human
                                      activities about the value of
                                      charcoal.

                                      

                                      This discussion is only with the
                                      Biochar group, so I am adding the
                                      Stoves Listserv and attaching the
                                      spreadsheet.

                                      

                                      Notes;

                                      

                                      The use of BTU/LB in columns H and
                                      I should be in the green
                                      (calculated) values and the
                                      corresponding metric units (which
                                      you provide) should be the yellow
                                      variables that can be entered. 
                                      Please.

                                      

                                      I notice that changes in the Value
                                      of unburned char/kg  (C23 ) is
                                      essentially linked to the cost of
                                      fuel wood  (C5) , and therefore
                                      virtually dictate the conclusion
                                      of carbon credit pricing needed
                                      (C28 ).   So, the price stays
                                      quite high.

                                      

                                      ****************

                                      A.  Consider the case of the cook
                                      who has no real use for the char,
                                      which means that the cost of fuel 
                                      is 100% allocated to the cooking,
                                      and the resultant char has zero 
                                      value.  To that cook there is no
                                      trade-off about char being used
                                      for cooking other meals.   
                                      Selling the char is "pure profit",
                                      whether it is a calculated value
                                      of $0.16/kg (as in C26) or merely
                                      $0.12/kg as in Deganga, India, or
                                      only $0.08/kg which is still
                                      better than nothing.

                                      

                                      B.  Current "traditional" cooking
                                      with charcoal that is produced by
                                      generally inefficient
                                      "traditional" char-making methods
                                      would have a char yield  (C6) of
                                      between 10% (burning too much to
                                      ash) and 25% (leaving volatiles in
                                      the char, or even some incomplete
                                      pyrolysis/torrification).   

                                      

                                      C.  But for those people who
                                      produce traditional char, the
                                      "cost of fuel wood" (C5) could be
                                      as low as zero (illegal cutting or
                                      destructive cutting) or some
                                      notional value of the time spent
                                      to make the charcoal.            

                                      

                                      Others need to comment also.   

                                      

                                      Paul

                                      

                                      

                                      
                                    Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
                                    Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
                                    Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
                                    Website:  www.drtlud.com 
                                    
                                      
                                        
                                          
                                            
                                              Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Pa 
                                              
                                                
                                                   
                                                  
                                                    
                                                      From: biochar at yahoogroups.com [mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com] 

                                                          Sent:
                                                          Monday,
                                                          September 11,
                                                          2017 4:02 PM

                                                          To:
                                                          Hugh
                                                          McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin at verizon.net>; biochar at yahoogroups.com

                                                          Subject:
                                                          Re: [biochar]
                                                          Where to
                                                          discuss STOVES
                                                          AND CARBON
                                                          offsets and
                                                          drawdown
                                                    
                                                  
                                                   
                                                   
                                                    
                                                  
                                                    
                                                      
                                                        Hugh and
                                                          Kevin,

                                                          

                                                          First to
                                                          Hugh:  Why do
                                                          you write 
                                                        
                                                          $0.10/kg
                                                          is a more
                                                          reasonable
                                                          assumption.
                                                        
                                                        when
                                                          that is what
                                                          Kevin actually
                                                          said.  

                                                          

                                                          Then to
                                                          Kevin: 
                                                          Actually, it
                                                          the char yield
                                                          is 20% per kg
                                                          of fuel
                                                          (closer to
                                                          actual than is
                                                          25% or 30%),
                                                          then the
                                                          number becomes
                                                          $US
                                                          250 per tonne
                                                          of char =
                                                          $US250/3.42 =
                                                          $US 73.10 per
                                                          tonne of CO2
                                                          equivalent. 

                                                          

                                                          To all:  As
                                                          reported in
                                                          the Deganga
                                                          Case Study
                                                          (page 4, 3rd
                                                          paragraph), in
                                                          that case
                                                          study the 
                                                          people were
                                                          actually
                                                          paying
                                                          US$0.075 per
                                                          kg of
                                                          firewood.  
                                                          And they burn
                                                          3 to 4 kg per
                                                          day (which is
                                                          less than half
                                                          of baseline
                                                          fuel
                                                          consumption). 
                                                          Note:  4 kg of
                                                          firewood at
                                                          20% char yield
                                                          would be about
                                                          0.8 kg of char
                                                          per day
                                                          (matches the
                                                          measured
                                                          quantities of
                                                          char purchased
                                                          from the
                                                          households). 

                                                          

                                                          And they were
                                                          receiving
                                                          payment of
                                                          $0.12 per kg
                                                          of char via
                                                          the "Earn
                                                          while you
                                                          cook"
                                                          arrangements
                                                          (page 4,
                                                          second
                                                          paragraph from
                                                          the bottom of
                                                          the page),
                                                          which would be
                                                          $0.04 per 0.3
                                                          kg (just
                                                          citing Kevin's
                                                          initial number
                                                          for some
                                                          comparison) or
                                                          $0.024 per 0.2
                                                          kg (the
                                                          approximate
                                                          actual char
                                                          production per
                                                          day of
                                                          cooking.).

                                                          

                                                          Can we use
                                                          some of these
                                                          above numbers
                                                          and send a
                                                          revised
                                                          statement,
                                                          please?  

                                                          

                                                          And if the
                                                          point is still
                                                          
                                                        
                                                          it is more advantageous for the Cook to burn
                                                          it [the char]
                                                          for another
                                                          meal.
                                                        
                                                        then why are the people  so delighted with
                                                          the charcoal
                                                          buyback?   (
                                                          ?? cultural
                                                          reasons???
                                                          such as not
                                                          having a
                                                          tradition of
                                                          cooking with
                                                          charcoal at
                                                          the household
                                                          level (true)
                                                          ...   or their
                                                          perception of
                                                          the value of a
                                                          few cents is
                                                          greater than
                                                          their
                                                          perception of
                                                          the expense of
                                                          the cooking
                                                          task?  ... or
                                                          some other
                                                          reason(s) ???

                                                          

                                                          All are
                                                          welcome to
                                                          comment,
                                                          please.

                                                          

                                                          Paul

                                                          

                                                          
                                                        Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
                                                        Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
                                                        Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
                                                        Website:  www.drtlud.com
                                                        
                                                          On
                                                          9/11/2017 1:22
                                                          PM, Hugh
                                                          McLaughlin
                                                          wrote:
                                                        
                                                        
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          ERRATA:
                                                          $10/tonne is
                                                          $0.01/kg.
                                                          
                                                          
                                                           
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          If
                                                          there is any
                                                          transportation,
                                                          $100/tonne or
                                                          the basis used
                                                          for the
                                                          calculation:
                                                          $0.10/kg is a
                                                          more
                                                          reasonable
                                                          assumption.
                                                          
                                                          
                                                           
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Hugh
                                                          McLaughlin,
                                                          PhD, PE
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          CTO
                                                          - NextChar.com
                                                          
                                                          
                                                           
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          On
                                                          Monday,
                                                          September 11,
                                                          2017 2:03 PM,
                                                          "kchisholm at seaside.ns.ca
                                                          [biochar]"
                                                          <biochar at yahoogroups.com>
                                                          wrote:
                                                          
                                                           
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                            
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Hi Paul
                                                          
                                                          
                                                           
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Assume that
                                                          such fuelwood
                                                          costs $US10
                                                          per tonne, or
                                                          $US.10 per kg.
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Assume that 1
                                                          kg of such
                                                          wood is
                                                          “burned” in a
                                                          TLUD, to cook
                                                          a meal, and
                                                          that there is
                                                          .25 kg char
                                                          yield. 
                                                          
                                                          
                                                           
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Assume also
                                                          that the char
                                                          could be used
                                                          to cook a
                                                          second meal.
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          The cost of
                                                          fuel per meal
                                                          is thus
                                                          $US.10, if the
                                                          char is not
                                                          used for
                                                          cooking, OR,
                                                          it is $US.05
                                                          if the char is
                                                          subsequently
                                                          used to cook a
                                                          second meal.
                                                          
                                                          
                                                           
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Thus, if
                                                          somebody gave
                                                          the Cook
                                                          $US.05 for the
                                                          .3 kg of char,
                                                          the Cook could
                                                          be “revenue
                                                          neutral”.
                                                          
                                                          
                                                           
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Thus, the cost
                                                          of “Carbon
                                                          Credits” that
                                                          reaches the
                                                          actual Cook
                                                          should be a
                                                          minimum of
                                                          $US.05/.3 kg
                                                          char = $US.167
                                                          per kg char,
                                                          or $US167 per
                                                          tonne char =
                                                          $US167/3.42 =
                                                          approximately
                                                          $US48.80 per
                                                          tonne of CO2
                                                          equivalent.
                                                          
                                                          
                                                           
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          CONCLUSION:
                                                          With the
                                                          costing and
                                                          performance
                                                          assumptions
                                                          shown above,
                                                          unless the
                                                          Cook gets more
                                                          than the
                                                          equivalent of
                                                          $US48.80 per
                                                          tonne CO2
                                                          carbon
                                                          credits, it is
                                                          not
                                                          advantageous
                                                          for the Cook
                                                          to “sell” the
                                                          char… it is
                                                          more
                                                          advantageous
                                                          for the Cook
                                                          to burn it for
                                                          another meal.
                                                          
                                                          
                                                           
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Does this make
                                                          sense to you?
                                                          
                                                          
                                                           
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Best wishes,
                                                          
                                                          
                                                           
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Kevin
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          From: biochar at yahoogroups.com [mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com] 

                                                          Sent:
                                                          Monday,
                                                          September 11,
                                                          2017 11:53 AM

                                                          To: biochar at yahoogroups.com;
                                                          Doc Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>

                                                          Subject:
                                                          Re: [biochar]
                                                          Where to
                                                          discuss STOVES
                                                          AND CARBON
                                                          offsets and
                                                          drawdown
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                           
                                                          
                                                          
                                                            
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Dear Shengar,

                                                          

                                                          Thank you for
                                                          the input.

                                                          

                                                          World figures
                                                          are that about
                                                          3 billion
                                                          persons have
                                                          meals prepared
                                                          on solid fuel
                                                          (mostly
                                                          biomass).  
                                                          Family size
                                                          (especially
                                                          HOUSEHOLD
                                                          size,
                                                          referring to
                                                          the number of
                                                          people who eat
                                                          together)
                                                          should be 5 or
                                                          6, which
                                                          would  put the
                                                          number of
                                                          households
                                                          between 600
                                                          million and
                                                          500 million.  
                                                          Those are the
                                                          numbers that I
                                                          prefer to use.

                                                          

                                                          I agree with
                                                          nearly a kilo
                                                          of char
                                                          produced per
                                                          day per TLUD
                                                          stove
                                                          (confirmed in
                                                          Deganga,
                                                          India,
                                                          study).  365
                                                          days would
                                                          yield about a
                                                          third of on
                                                          ton of char
                                                          per
                                                          household.  3
                                                          household
                                                          become a
                                                          ton/yr.   
                                                          30,000 HH
                                                          would be
                                                          10,000 tons. 
                                                          300,000,000 HH
                                                          (about half of
                                                          the needed
                                                          cookstoves)
                                                          would be
                                                          100,000,000
                                                          tons.

                                                          

                                                          So it would
                                                          take 10 years
                                                          to reach one
                                                          GIGA ton,
                                                          which is
                                                          1,000,000,000
                                                          tons.  
                                                          (Please check
                                                          my math.)

                                                          

                                                          In the
                                                          Drawdown
                                                          project, the
                                                          time period is
                                                          2020 to2050,
                                                          which is 3
                                                          decade, or
                                                          "potentially"
                                                          3 gigatons of
                                                          char
                                                          sequestration.

                                                          

                                                          3 GT is only
                                                          1/5th of the
                                                          GT calculated
                                                          for ALL
                                                          cookstoves,
                                                          and over 3
                                                          times more
                                                          that what was
                                                          calcualted for
                                                          ALL biochar by
                                                          2050.  Clearly
                                                          there is more
                                                          to the
                                                          drawdown
                                                          calculations
                                                          than the
                                                          simple numbers
                                                          above.

                                                          

                                                          Paul
                                                          
                                                          Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
                                                          Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
                                                          Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
                                                          Website:  www.drtlud.com
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          On 9/11/2017 1:27 AM, shengar shengar at aol.com [biochar]
                                                          wrote:
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                            
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          The ballpark numbers I think Albert Bates has
                                                          crunched but I
                                                          play with
                                                          these numbers:
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                           
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          About 1 billion households cook with biomass,
                                                          so if all had
                                                          TLUDs,
                                                          producing
                                                          about a kilo
                                                          per day of
                                                          biochar that
                                                          would be some
                                                          one million
                                                          tons per day,
                                                          365 million
                                                          tons per year,
                                                          a gigaton of
                                                          CO2 every 3
                                                          years.
                                                          (accounting
                                                          for other
                                                          greenhouse gas
                                                          reductions
                                                          when biochar
                                                          is put in
                                                          soil)

                                                          And increased
                                                          rates of soil
                                                          carbon
                                                          sequestration
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          On Sep 10, 2017 at 9:29 AM, <Paul Anderson psanders at ilstu.edu
                                                          [biochar]>
                                                          wrote: 
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                            
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Dear Stovers and Biochar folk,

                                                          

                                                          The financial
                                                          part of
                                                          advancing the
                                                          TLUD stove
                                                          situation
                                                          (IMO) keeps
                                                          coming back to
                                                          the value of
                                                          carbon offsets
                                                          generated.  
                                                          But that topic
                                                          is too thinly
                                                          related to the
                                                          purpose of the
                                                          Stoves
                                                          Listserv or
                                                          the Biochar
                                                          Listserve.  
                                                          So I will
                                                          sending this
                                                          message. 

                                                          

                                                          The stoves-related
                                                          carbon-issues
                                                          discussion (generating
                                                          carbon
                                                          credits,
                                                          global
                                                          drawdown, etc)
                                                          need
                                                          discussion.  
                                                          So I request
                                                          some
                                                          assistance to
                                                          find where
                                                          this can be
                                                          discussed. 
                                                          Does such a
                                                          place already
                                                          exist?

                                                          

                                                          Also, who
                                                          among us want
                                                          to be into
                                                          that OTHER
                                                          discussion?  
                                                          Paul, Ron, and
                                                          who else?

                                                          

                                                          Paul
                                                          
                                                          --  
                                                          Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
                                                          Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
                                                          Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
                                                          Website:  www.drtlud.com
                                                          
                                                          
                                                           
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                           
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                           
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                        
                                                         
                                                      
                                                    
                                                  
                                                
                                              
                                               
                                            
                                          
                                        
                                      
                                    
                                     
                                  
                                  

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