[Stoves] Understanding what TLUD means.... was Re: stoves and credits again

[Ray Menke]

Gordon asked, "What is the intended purpose in mixing char in with dry
biomass for cooking?"
Some types of very dry fuels produce too much gas too fast, so the
flame no longer licks the bottom of the pot.  Tossing a bit of char or
torrefied wood in on top of the fuel will quickly reduce the height of
the flame and increase the cooking time.
My most useful stove has an initial fuel load 35 cm (14") high in a 22
cm (9") diameter cylinder.  This added fuel remains on top, nearer to
the pot, as it is consumed.
The usual fuel is chopped pieces of hardwood invasive species such as
Mesquite or Huisache, but a friend was on the way to the landfill with
a trailer load of unpainted, untreated Longleaf Pine from a century
old shed he had torn down.  It makes a good fire starter, but a
not-so-good TLUD fuel, unless it is mixed with hardwood, and has a
good layer of char on top.

On Sat, Sep 30, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Gordon West
<gordon.west at rtnewmexico.com> wrote:
> A basic question: What is the intended purpose in mixing char in with dry
> biomass for cooking?
>
> Gordon
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 30, 2017, at 9:53 AM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>
> Crispin,
>
> "TLUD" is the combustion processes associated with the Migratory Pyrolytic
> Front  (MPF). that creates the pyrolytic gases and leaves charcoal behind.
> That does not change.  The other features of a "stove device" can be and are
> diverse.  And that is where we can find all of the variations that you
> mention.
>
> If a stove COULD successfully operate with the MPF, it could be called a
> TLUD stove even if it can also be operated in other ways.
>
> But if it COULD be with the MPF, but if it is mostly NOT being used with the
> MPF, calling it a TLUD gasifier stove is misleading.
>
> [Note:  This same problem occurs with the "Rocket" combustion processes
> which (for the purists among us) should have the fuel-supporting shelf with
> air entering underneath until it comes up near the burning tips of the
> inserted fuel.   From my limited following of on-going Rocket stove designs
> and production, the shelf with associated tip-burning is often absent (by
> manufacturing or by user removal) but the name is still Rocket stove.  That
> is unfortunate, in part because the Rocket advantages are absent and should
> not be claimed by the different stove.   I do not want the TLUD
> distinctiveness to be claimed if the MPF is not an active part of the
> operation  of a stove that claims to  be a TLUD.]
>
> Example:   If you filll a TLUD-capable fuel chamber with charcoal, there
> canNOT be a MPF.   Why?   Because there is no pyrolysis.   The fuel is
> ALREADY charcoal.   That operation might be driving off some  volatiles that
> then move upward, but that is not pyrolysis.
>
> Note:  TLUD is an acronym for "Top-Lit UpDraft".   But the acronym is now a
> distincitive name in its own right.   And it is associated with the MPF and
> with dry biomass fuels.   If some other process has ignition at the top and
> has upward moving air flows, it can have any name you want to give it, but
> not the name TLUD.
>
> As a rather absurd example, if there is a "Lignin Powered Gasifier" stove,
> it should not be called an LPG stove.  That would be misleading, would be
> false, and could probably cause some law suit from the big business of LPG.
> I doubt that LPG is a registered trademark, but misuse of those letters
> would cause trouble.
>
> So, please help to keep TLUD to mean things consistent with "woodgas" and
> "pyrolysis" and MPF.  Ify you discussing something else, then  come up with
> its own distinctive  and non-confusing name.
>
> Persistent Paul
>
>
> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website:  www.drtlud.com
>
> On 9/30/2017 7:56 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
>
> Dear Persistent Paul
>
> I appreciate the way in which you have stuck to the promotion of TLUD’s and
> show no signs of skacking.
>
>
>>>…That establishes the principle that TLUD‎s can burn char.
>
>>No.   The char yield is associated with some char combustion  during the
>> time of the pyrolysis, but that is not the same as having the char as the
>> input fuel.
>
> Well I just showed that char can be an input to a TLUD. I can burn charcoal
> only as an input fuel to a TLUD.  I have a set of cooking photos used for
> promotion showing a Vesto operating as a TLUD charcoal burner with a cooking
> plate in place of the pot. Charcoal stoves operate much better, cleaner and
> longer when operated in TLUD mode. TLUD was the standard operating method
> for the POCA which is a charcoal-only stove.
>
> I have replied to this in my above comments.   PSA
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-- 
Ray  Menke