[Stoves] Solar Cooking facilities for all rural households in India

Fri Jul 13 03:56:06 CDT 2018

Yes in a way except the electrons are immediately taken up for splitting
water to produce food. In solar PV, photoelectric effect produces electrons
which are separated by P-N junction and thus flow through external circuit
to produce electricity.

Anil K Rajvanshi, Ph.D.
Director and Hon. Secretary
Nimbkar Agricultural Research Institute (NARI)
Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road,
P.O.Box 44, Phaltan - 415523
Maharashtra, India

Ph: +91-9168937964 (office)
www.nariphaltan.org

http://www.nariphaltan.org/writings.htm (AKR's articles and talks)
http://www.huffingtonpost.in/dr-anil-k-rajvanshi/ (Huffington Post blogs)
http://nariphaltan.org/nari-in-press/ (articles and news published about
NARI)
http://www.thebetterindia.com/author/anilrajvanshi/ (ocassional blogs in
Better India)
http://www.speakingtree.in/anil-rajvanshi (Speaking Tree blogs)

alternate e-mail:
nariphaltan at gmail.com

On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 1:57 PM Nikhil Desai <pienergy2008 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Anil:
>
> So photosynthesis is photoelectric generation?
>
> Nikhil
>
> On Jul 13, 2018, at 12:04 AM, Anil Rajvanshi <anilrajvanshi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> In these light-dependent reactions (at photosynthesis centers), some
> energy is used to strip electrons <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron>
>  from suitable substances, such as water, producing oxygen gas. The
> hydrogen freed by the splitting of water is used in the creation of two
> further compounds that serve as short-term stores of energy, enabling its
> transfer to drive other reactions: these compounds are reduced nicotinamide
> adenine dinucleotide phosphate
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotinamide_adenine_dinucleotide_phosphate>
>  (NADPH) and adenosine triphosphate
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adenosine_triphosphate> (ATP), the "energy
> currency" of cells.
>
> Anil K Rajvanshi, Ph.D.
> Director and Hon. Secretary
> Nimbkar Agricultural Research Institute (NARI)
> Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road,
> P.O.Box 44, Phaltan - 415523
> Maharashtra, India
>
> Ph: +91-9168937964 (office)
> www.nariphaltan.org
>
> http://www.nariphaltan.org/writings.htm (AKR's articles and talks)
> http://www.huffingtonpost.in/dr-anil-k-rajvanshi/ (Huffington Post blogs)
> http://nariphaltan.org/nari-in-press/ (articles and news published about
> NARI)
> http://www.thebetterindia.com/author/anilrajvanshi/ (ocassional blogs in
> Better India)
> http://www.speakingtree.in/anil-rajvanshi (Speaking Tree blogs)
>
>
> alternate e-mail:
> nariphaltan at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 8:35 AM Nikhil Desai <ndesai at alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>
>> Anil:
>>
>> STACKING!! Keep your wood stove around!
>>
>> You would want it anyway. The induction stove isn't a perfect substitute
>> except for - well, boiling water.
>>
>> Or go to rural cafeterias for the working poor! Read Anil Rajvanshi.
>>
>> I already said most of these PV induction stoves would be on-grid,
>> because of the grid-connected rooftop PV program. It is only a matter of
>> metering and setting the feed-in tariff. On-grid induction stoves will only
>> fail when the grid and the sun both fail.
>>
>> What is this gobbledygook about the nature using photoelectric effect "to
>> produce food"? Have you gone Pachauri?
>>
>> At ANY voltage, electricity wins. Except as lightning.
>>
>> Nikhil
>>
>> ------------------------
>> Nikhil Desai
>> (US +1) 202 568 5831
>> *Skype: nikhildesai888*
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 12, 2018 at 9:37 PM, Anil Rajvanshi <anilrajvanshi at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In this solar powered induction cookers has any thought been given to
>>> what happens on cloudy days? Generally 3-4 days cloudy days storage has to
>>> be factored in any stand alone PV systems. That increases the battery size
>>> and cost.
>>>
>>> And finally it does not make sense to produce electricity from the sun
>>> and then convert it to heat. Only 20% energy in the sun spectrum is able to
>>> produce photoelectric effect whereas 60% of solar energy has utilizable
>>> heat component.
>>>
>>> Nature utilizes the photoelectric effect to produce food and the heat is
>>> used for driving wind and evapotranspiration for cooling. We should follow
>>> the natural process in our scheme of things and get away from the
>>> "electric" mentality.
>>>
>>> Cheers.
>>>
>>> Anil
>>>
>>> Anil K Rajvanshi, Ph.D.
>>> Director and Hon. Secretary
>>> Nimbkar Agricultural Research Institute (NARI)
>>> Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road,
>>> P.O.Box 44, Phaltan - 415523
>>> Maharashtra, India
>>>
>>> Ph: +91-9168937964 (office)
>>> www.nariphaltan.org
>>>
>>> http://www.nariphaltan.org/writings.htm (AKR's articles and talks)
>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.in/dr-anil-k-rajvanshi/ (Huffington Post
>>> blogs)
>>> http://nariphaltan.org/nari-in-press/ (articles and news published
>>> about NARI)
>>> http://www.thebetterindia.com/author/anilrajvanshi/ (ocassional blogs
>>> in Better India)
>>> http://www.speakingtree.in/anil-rajvanshi (Speaking Tree blogs)
>>>
>>>
>>> alternate e-mail:
>>> nariphaltan at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 12, 2018 at 11:32 PM Nikhil Desai <pienergy2008 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sujoy:
>>>>
>>>> Let's first recognize that Piyush Goyal is a smart minister in the
>>>> Government of India. With portfolios of finance (temporary), railways and
>>>> coal, not only is he the most powerful minister other than Modi, He has
>>>> also held power, new and renewable energy, mines, at junior levels.
>>>>
>>>> He was the one to  up the solar PV target for India from 20 GW to 100
>>>> GW, most of it from grid-connected solar parks and farms.
>>>>
>>>> He is in a position to give away induction stoves to everybody at a 50%
>>>> discount. Grid stoves at 220V cost around $30-40 on amazon.in, and
>>>> about the same in retail shops in cities and towns. Their ex-factory costs
>>>> are likely to be $20-30, which means the government can subsidize the
>>>> manufacturers $10 apiece if they simply rolled out 100 million more stoves.
>>>>
>>>> True, that may not be all of rural India, nor used exclusively. People
>>>> without grid connection or a home capable of holding rooftop PV, batteries,
>>>> and  internal wiring would of course not behefit; we have enough of those
>>>> in India, but this government is not for the "upliftment of the
>>>> downtrodden", just "survival of the fittest".
>>>>
>>>> Of the 300 million households in India of 2025, I imagine 150 million
>>>> can have LPG and grid induction cooking, and another 50-100 million by 2030
>>>> on one or the other.
>>>>
>>>> That still leaves a market for "better biomass stoves" at 50-100
>>>> million for advocates of BBM if they get past Kirk Smith's imaginary
>>>> threshold of "truly health protective" and his insistence on "complete,
>>>> permanent" transition away from solid fuels.
>>>>
>>>> Stacking is a virtue. A cook needs to achieve total economy - food,
>>>> water, time, fuel cost, stove cost, other electrical appliances, and cash -
>>>> that only she knows how.
>>>>
>>>> Nearly ten years ago I had declared "The lighting problem is solved,"
>>>> once I found China-made LED flashlights in Vanuatu. I also became an
>>>> advocate of grid-PV, which was such a turnaround, I did not have to
>>>> persuade fellow skeptics.
>>>>
>>>> Then in 2010 came a question from a senior friend who has been in this
>>>> "cooking energy" work for decades. He asked me, "How long do you think
>>>> before PV-induction cooking can be viable?" I said, "Come back in five
>>>> years."
>>>>
>>>> Then right in 2014/5, some proposals started floating. My take then
>>>> was, "Considering that anything takes at least three years from concept to
>>>> realization, the time has now come to take this seriously."
>>>>
>>>> Why, I think already around 2014, Himachal Pradesh (a state in India)
>>>> Chief Minister or his rival was offering free induction stoves if elected.
>>>> I was only playing the same tune.
>>>>
>>>> Now about grid, off-grid, batteries, and all that jazz.
>>>>
>>>> First, note that Goyal says India has "100% power surplus" right now.
>>>>
>>>> He boasts, but this is the tragedy of Indian power development. The
>>>> government has invested or incurred sovereign liability of about $1
>>>> trillion in propping up this sad situation where people don't have the
>>>> finance to invest on their side of the meter. Why is India only so sparsely
>>>> air-conditioned? Why can't air-conditioning and refrigeration be spread in
>>>> 50% of the households and all throughout the food chain, since there is
>>>> enough supply capacity? What is the point of putting up 100 GW of solar
>>>> (including some solar thermal) if not to mothball all the nuclear plants
>>>> and all the coal plants built before 1990?
>>>>
>>>> What "power surplus" means in this context is that a) most of the
>>>> induction stoves will run on 220V grids, including in "rural" areas; b)
>>>> "rooftop PV" - which is also a huge "scheme" under GOI - will also be
>>>> grid-interactive; and c) strictly off-grid solar induction cooking, with 48
>>>> V supply and battery - has a negligible potential.
>>>>
>>>> What I see Michael Trevor, Crispin, and Andrew discussing here is for
>>>> another world, not rural India as it is now and if its grid reliability
>>>> problems can be solved soon. (One reason for "power surplus" is that the
>>>> distribution entities are short of money and their state governments cannot
>>>> subsidize them any more; it is another ball of wax altogether, a major
>>>> headache - "In India Only, Sir!" variety.)
>>>>
>>>> Still, look at this way - suppose (i.e., assume, since I know better!)
>>>> that about 30% of "cooking" (not boiling chai) in India is now done outside
>>>> of homes, and the fraction keeps increasing at about 2-3 percentage points
>>>> per year before plateauing out at about 50%.
>>>>
>>>> That means, the real commercially competitive market for cooking -- and
>>>> indeed, to reduce the solid fuel pollution WHO cooks up from just numbers
>>>> of household, without attention to how much fuel is used and how - is
>>>> OUTSIDE homes.
>>>>
>>>> This is how the world has changed in the last 20 years -- greater
>>>> urbanization, with many cities having doubled in size; greater grid
>>>> electrification; higher cash incomes and financial inclusiveness. In this
>>>> environment, the hippy-style romance of "cookstoves for rural poor
>>>> households to save forests, protect the climate, improve health, and
>>>> empower women" has to be rethought.
>>>>
>>>> Solar PV could cause a revolution to put most of us to permanent sleep.
>>>>
>>>> Nikhil
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Nikhil Desai
>>>> (US +1) 202 568 5831
>>>> *Skype: nikhildesai888*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 9:30 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
>>>> crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Small contribution Andrew:
>>>>>
>>>>> 48 VDC is much better for control electronics, as you say, and all
>>>>> bicycles are 48 Volts, that I have looked at. It seems the electric vehicle
>>>>> industry is settling on that because it is regulated less stringently.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know how many of you have any electronics training but "when I
>>>>> was young" any Class C circuit was permitted without safety because it was
>>>>> incapable of blowing anything up, even itself. A short circuit caused
>>>>> nothing untoward.  Heaven knows what they call that now but the principle
>>>>> still applies.
>>>>>
>>>>> If 48 is safe to touch and the parts are 1/4 the size, why would
>>>>> anyone go for 12 volt anything? What voltage is produced under a nominal
>>>>> load from 20 Li-ion batteries?
>>>>>
>>>>> The CAU students and I looked at induction cookers to see what they
>>>>> delivered. First, they deliver less than the claimed efficiency, closer to
>>>>> 75% than the claimed A, B, C ratings (respectively 88, 90, 92%). Second the
>>>>> power rating is the consumption, not the cooking power.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cooking at high power would still draw at least 30 amps, 40 from a big
>>>>> unit (2 kW), from a 48 volt pack. Would it be better to store heat?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Crispin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org> On Behalf Of
>>>>> Andrew Heggie
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2018 12:18 PM
>>>>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <
>>>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Solar Cooking facilities for all rural
>>>>> households in India
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 at 10:24, Michael N Trevor <mntrevor at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > WANT TO KNOW A WHOLE LOT MORE.
>>>>> > GOOGLED 12 v INDUCTION COOKTOPS
>>>>> > SOME VERY NICE EXPENSIVE STUFF.
>>>>> > BIGGEST THING LOTS OF FANCY ELECTRONICS THAT WILL NOT HOLD UP IN
>>>>> RURAL
>>>>> > WARM COASTAL MARINE CONDITIONS
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> All the time the aggregated cost of the PV panels and battery storage
>>>>> are so high I cannot see solar to electric induction being viable.
>>>>> Currently  any battery storage I can buy is a couple of times more
>>>>> expensive than buying from the grid in UK so it doesn't pay me but it may
>>>>> pay me to heat water from excess PV electricity. Just as PV panels have
>>>>> halved in price as production capacity has increased it looks like LIon
>>>>> batteries are coming down by ~15%  as installed capacity doubles, whether
>>>>> there is enough lithium  mined to sustain this is another matter and there
>>>>> are other storage technologies.
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael what is the common failure mode of fancy electronics in your
>>>>> environment?
>>>>>
>>>>> The circuits for induction heaters seem remarkably simple, a couple of
>>>>> MOSFETS  in push pull oscillating at ~150kHz  and a simple control circuit
>>>>> (the one I bought following Nikhil's promulgation is too coarse on the
>>>>> control side) but I see no reason to store or distribute even DC
>>>>> electricity at such a low voltage, 48V seems more sensible and then the
>>>>> MOSFETS handle less current.
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>>>
>>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>
>>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>>>
>>>>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.bioenergylists.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fstoves_lists.bioenergylists.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C09d8ca83b8684e012bf108d5e680f086%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636668363817564594&sdata=wgRqnxKZ8XRNYK%2BC63B3mAvD9eX6CkdL8s4v0Oi4xec%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web
>>>>> site:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstoves.bioenergylists.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C09d8ca83b8684e012bf108d5e680f086%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636668363817564594&sdata=iQSPWKQIsTViuyawpzMj8XSDLvUVc%2BAKkfwfi7TqEvU%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>>>
>>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>
>>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>>>
>>>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>
>>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web
>>>>> site:
>>>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20180713/dcbda446/attachment.html>