[Stoves] TLUD Summit discussion continues on Listservs

[Anderson, Paul]

Crispin,

Good.   It is about the stoves and not about the software.

I agree about the value of the graphs.   I like to watch them be generated in almost real time (a few seconds delay) on the computer monitor.   I can see bumps that I know that I caused by some specific action.

Suddha and I will be checking into the provision of more data than the summary calculation in the spreadsheet of results.

Paul

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu<mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>       Skype:   paultlud
Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile: 309-531-4434
Website:   www.drtlud.com<http://www.drtlud.com>

From: Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org> On Behalf Of Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 12:26 PM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] TLUD Summit discussion continues on Listservs

Dear Paul

It is a question of who owns the spreadsheets and who owns the results.

There is a lot of interesting information one can extract from the spreadsheet that is not available from the reported numbers. There is little one can understand from the final results about the performance during portions of the test. The summary result is not a design tool, it is a rating tool.

The spreadsheet contains real time CO2, PM and CO plots which are very useful for designers. That is not shown in the final result.

I have been looking over example sheets from some tests and working out how much information we can get that is useful to designers to optimise their products for emissions or control.

If I had a stove tested, I would only do it on condition they gave me the whole spreadsheet.  It contains far more information than those few numbers and metrics.

Regards
Crispin

From: Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org<mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>> On Behalf Of Anderson, Paul
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 1:14 PM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org<mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] TLUD Summit discussion continues on Listservs

Crispin,

Each stove owner gets to decide about release of any data, whether summary data or details like spreadsheets.

For the Champion and FABstove tests, let's wait until Suddha and I provide our interpretations / analyses.

Meanwhile, can you be specific about what issues you would be examining and hypotheses of what you could find.   That could be a strong incentive to provide the detailed data.  There are at least two different objectives:
1.  To analyze the testing calculations that are used in the spreadsheets.   THAT is a question for Dean, and many of us are interested  in that aspect.   Personally, I still do not have a good feel for how the old tier system (4 tiers) has changed to the new system with 5 tiers.
2.  To analyze the differences between two similar but slightly different runs of the test.  THAT is of interest to the stove owners.

Paul

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu<mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>       Skype:   paultlud
Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile: 309-531-4434
Website:   www.drtlud.com<https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.drtlud.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0156e649956949bfcfbe08d691df3aad%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636856785274089201&sdata=%2FTb5wccs0mOtyVh2oEYc0co%2F0yWOeoInqfuMA10gyPg%3D&reserved=0>

From: Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org<mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>> On Behalf Of Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 11:13 AM
To: Stove Discussion <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org<mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] TLUD Summit discussion continues on Listservs

Are they willing to share the spreadsheets that produced these numbers?

Thanks
Crispin
From: psanders at ilstu.edu<mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
Sent: February 13, 2019 12:10 PM
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org<mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>; biochar at yahoogroups.com<mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com>
Reply to: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org<mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: [Stoves] TLUD Summit discussion continues on Listservs


Stovers and Biocharists,

A total of 16 tests of stoves were conducted at the January 2019 TLUD Summit held at Aprovecho.  A summary data sheet from Aprovecho is attached.   Just seeing the numbers without discussions is less than ideal, so please do not over-examine the results.
16 tests total:
2 of one stove that was not TLUD powered (Marco - plancha stove from Guatemala)
1 test of a large TLUD-ND-Large and not intended as a cooking stove ~15 kW)  (Norm biochar maker model 16(?) )
4 tests of Kirk Harris Wonderwerks TLUD-ND
3 tests of Champion TLUD-ND
3 tests of Champion TLUD-FA (yes, forced air and not many changes to the Champion TLUD)
3 tests of FABstove TLUD-FA

Details with explanations, photos, and interpretations are forthcoming, being prepared by Suddha Banerjee and myself, with comments from any of the stove owners.   Please be patient; might take another week.

Paul

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu<mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>       Skype:   paultlud
Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile: 309-531-4434
Website:   www.drtlud.com<https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.drtlud.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0156e649956949bfcfbe08d691df3aad%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636856785274099212&sdata=i2J1m0gLoaALe360DIjY4sEoM0nlYOMlogbVZgIe2U0%3D&reserved=0>

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