[Stoves] [biochar] Methane from char-makers

Fri Feb 22 05:21:11 CST 2019

Hi Paul

"Methane from Char-Makers" is a rather broad Subject Line. One can make char
with many systems and techniques, and one can expect to produce various
quantities of methane and char in various qualities. Clearly, a gasifier
producing "Engine Grade Gas" and Char" could have Char/Methane output
different from a TLUD, an externally heated retort, a Kontiki, a Three Stone
Fire, etc.

In your case, where your major interest is in TLUD systems, it would appear
that one way to proceed would be as follows:

1: Do "methane analysis" on TLUD flue gas, under various operating
conditions, to determine how much, if any, CH4 is produced, and if any is
produced, under what operating conditions is it produced.

2: Considering the markets into which you are selling various TLUD systems,
is there a problem or opportunity associated with the presence or absence of
CH4 in TLUD exit gases?

If there are no methane related problems or opportunities associated with
your products and the markets into which you sell them, then you need have
little to no concern for methane.

Best wishes,

Kevin

From: biochar at yahoogroups.com [mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: February 22, 2019 1:06 AM
To: biochar at yahoogroups.com; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: RE: [biochar] Methane from char-makers

Dear all,

I place comments below in Geoff's message (shortened) and then I paste the
key first paragraph of a message from Frank Shields.  Both add to our
information and also raise some questions relating to methane.

See below.

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD

Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP

Email:   <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu> psanders at ilstu.edu       Skype:
paultlud

Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile: 309-531-4434

Website:    <http://www.drtlud.com> www.drtlud.com 

From: biochar at yahoogroups.com <mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com>
<biochar at yahoogroups.com <mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com> > 
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 9:19 PM
To: biochar at yahoogroups.com <mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com> 
Subject: Re: [biochar] Methane from char-makers

  [PSA>>] Geoff wrote:

Thanks for that table Valentine, anyone who claims variance from that should
be able to prove it or at least cite studies so indicating.

Q/1, why are stoves not tested for methane? - well, the dominant information
in the Biochar world is that the passing of exhaust smoke through a glowing
charcoal bed crazy for oxygen causes all the aromatic etc oils to burn, the
carbon dioxide to burn, the water to split into oxygen and hydrogen and
burn, - why would methane be excepted?

[PSA>>] There is some disagreement here.   SOME units pass the exhaust gas
through glowing hot charcoal (such as downdraft gasifiers), But TLUDs pass
it through residual charcoal, and flame-cap (Kon Tiki) do not pass it
through any charcoal.

You might as well ask why are stoves not tested for radiation, Bubonic
plague or terrroism messages..

Q/3, answered by 1, except if far too much water is added, in which case the
stove would probably self extinguish. 

[PSA>>] I think that questions 1 and 3 still need further answers.

1.  Why are the stove tests not including methane emissions results?  (be
sure Jim Jetter sees this.)

2.  HPS says methane is 100 times worse than CO2, but others say 25 times
worse.   Which is it?[PSA>>]  Already answered by Hans-Peter

3.  Major comment by HPS:  "methane molecules get wrapped by arising water
vapor which prevent its combustion."   Correct or not?   Can it be explained
more fully?   And conclusion would be to use very dry fuel, right?  (meaning
changing our stoves?)

Below is Frank Shield's comment:

Hi Paul,

There is equipment to measure methane without a lot of cost. I played around
with them when at the Soil Control Lab. There may be interference from other
gasses (false positives) so that will need be checked. I do not have that
equipment and I am sure they at the lab would not know where it is. Also; I
found that biochar will take up methane like it does butane. I tested that
using pure methane but I no longer have my results. Likely in a combustion
atmosphere there will be other gases competing with the methane and may
dirty the char. 

PSA:  I can appreciate the difficulties of getting good measurements.   But
note that the flame-cap Kon Tiki does not have the gases (including methane)
passing through charcoal.  

I think the questions #1 and #3 could still have further responses.

Paul

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