[Stoves] Unexpected Rising Levels of Atmospheric Methane

[Daniel]

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid
On Mar 6, 2019 11:32 AM, Julien Winter <winter.julien at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all;
>
> There may be challenges to measuring methane and NOx, and multidimensional circumstances.   NOx has been well studied for industrial furnaces.  

>>   Someday on Mars we will suck up all the NO compounds and make Ammonia  or Nitrate with them. While everyone was focused  on finding water, I had moved on to finding fertilizer. My brother helped found water on the Moon quite some time back. Then they then looked on Mars. Just like the stuff we work with, it was everywhere they wanted to be. They just didn't see the forest for all the trees!

Can you just take a total hydrocarbon chart on the stove exhaust with sensors, then take bottle samples for a break down of what those might be at each stage of.combustion.. It would be easy then to chart all of the individual lines with some accuracy? I'm not sure how you do it now.
> However, in this day and age, we need to provide evidence that various stoves have minimal impact.  One may be able to do this with a literature review, or it may require new research.   

>> I really think this has to be Only enforced on mass- produced stoves. Period end sentence. Unless someone is producing over 1000 or even 10,000 stoves per year, it's going to be a rounding error in pollution. Over those thresholds the cost of testing and " tuning" is also justified. This gives room and incentives  for the little guy to do his best but still turn a profit. As you point out ahead, if the public doesn't like the stove, it's all for nothing! Variety is the spice of life.

The fossil fuel industry has always had exemptions for small markets. Note, the easiest way to cut methane emissions is to cut flaring and leaking smaller wells. Their argument is " there is no profit in that to pay for fixing it.". To play their game, give them a subsidy to cap that, then you will have the extra expense on a ledger to be accountable for.

Old cars, old trains, even old boats are exempt from various emissions standards. Nobody checks that old farm tractor or even a new custom built race car, swamp buggie, or monster truck. Those are known as novelties. Not considered important enough to the big numbers.  How is that different than a home built stove? 

That being said, the real kicker is to compare biomass being consumed in any controlled combustion, to:  forest fires, rotting vegetation, or landfilled biomass.  Any improvement over the natural background off gassing is an offset!  I always found is kinda stupid to bury charcoal instead of replacing fossil fuel with it.  Unless you are improving soil for growth, much better to not dig or drill old carbon.

Stepping out of the bounds of this conversation, why are we not harvesting all of the distillates from biomass?  Modern organic chemistry emerged from the coke oven long before the oil refinery. Remember coal gas, city gas, water gas, just to mention a few? Look up how Proctor and Gamble, and Firestone got their start for a.hint. Guess what? Our feedstock is not a 400,000,000 year old activated charcoal groundwater filter.!  Fresh is best!
> What ever the evidence is, it should be publishable in a peer-reviewed journal.  That establishes it for the public record and public debate.  

>> Yea, yea.
> There is an old obstreperous saying in science: "Research that doesn't get published may as well have never been done."  Many of us, myself included, are guilty of that.

>> Some of us have found great efficiency and other reasons to NOT write stuff down. Quote Tom Reed" Ultimately, what you retain in your head is the most important knowledge".  In context of advise after my loosing all of my research and E- mails in a computer crash. Another version of that is Encephalitis.

Keeping a journal is what is really important. You can always go back and put a report together. The amount of time writing and editing for me would be enough time for me to forget what the next experimental  step was just demonstrated to be. Instead I think on my feet, and think as I do. Repeat pattern. The break to fill a journal is just enough time  to catch your breath and regroup. Other wise it's just a headless chicken situation.

On the other hand, chatting with others on recorded E- mail conversations is a great way in the new electronic world to continue the thinking about work, while unwinding, taking written notes. Get a cup of coffee, beer, tea, orange juice, or what ever moderates your mental throttle,.in the privacy of wherever, and let the ideas flow. " Fight from the inside" can't win with your hands tied" fight from the inside right down the line" ( the late Freddy Mercury)    So easy a cave man can do it. Know any??

Some of us don't have the luxury of just telling everyone everything, exactly what we are thinking. There are corporate spys, foreign dictators just plain old female dogs barking at night trying to suck up and hoard the information we would rather was used to help feed the masses.

There might also be a need to siphon off  just enough revenue to keep the wellspring primed even after drought.  For those people, context of the conversation is the ongoing Rosseta Stone. Those who have been in on the conversation since the beginning will understand the context. Those barging in to grab tid bits will be left with kibbles and bits. -A-?


> On a side note:  The main reason for using TLUDs is not mitigation of climate change.  It is because the households are financially better off, either because their gardens and horticulture and more productive, or because they use less fuel, or because they sell the char; plus they cook faster and reduce exposure to smoke.  Name another type of stove that intrinsically makes money for the family.   For the household, using a TLUD to mitigating climate change is an esoteric, intangible concept.  It is not what motivates TLUD adoption.  

>>What's amazing is all of those reasons have a duplicate counterpart in the industrial world. With all those cards in one hand of  the sustainable deck, why are we struggling?  Sometimes you play the biomass card, let's call it hearts, sometimes the solar card, call it diamonds, sometimes the geothermal card, spades, sometimes the wind and sea, clubs.  Each has a place in a good hand. Every hand is different. Every person has a different hand. It's how they are played that wins the tournament! 

The fossil fuel companies, their dependents in the transportation, industrial, and climate control business, and the land lease owners, the financial backers, have their deck stacked and routinely hide cards. Yet we tend to hold our own dispite playing one color at a time. Bring out the deck and shuffle them all! We win Everytime.  If you have aces you don't even need all good cards. ( Scratching your head yet?)

> To address climate change, the behavior of every person on the planet has to change.  All these small behaviors add up.   

>> For sure, but " consumers well they consume".  We need a buffet not a one course meal. The battle of the bulge was not fought on one side!

> Cheers,
> Julien.

>>. Na zdravje!
>> Mr. Dimiduk
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> --
> Julien Winter
> Cobourg, ON, CANADA
>> Dan Dimiduk, Dayton, Ohio, USA
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