[Stoves] Is the Blue Whirl really a 'thing'

[Crispin Pemberton-Pigott]

Dear Paul

I would add that when liquids become gases they are boiling and that lofts droplets of liquid,  The can be seen transported in the gas stream burning on the outside typically as yellow streaks in the case of paraffins.

At low temperature (400-450) biomass will oxidise directly to CO2 without a gas phase,

Unclean burning can be the result of evaporated fuel missing for fire completely, leaking around it, then condensing in the air.  I think that counts as fugitive emissions.

Regards
Crispin

From: Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org> On Behalf Of Anderson, Paul
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2020 9:59
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Is the Blue Whirl really a 'thing'

Tony,

The transition phases can be quite rapid, but in general,

Solids do not burn
Liquids do not burn

In both cases, they become gases which are possible to then be burned cleanly (in the right conditions).

Liquids burning uncleanly are an over exposure of the liquid to condition for becoming gases, and the resultant overabundant gases do not burn well (insufficient oxygen in the area where it counts in the heat of the fire.)

Paul


From: Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org<mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>> On Behalf Of Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2020 7:19 AM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org<mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Is the Blue Whirl really a 'thing'

Dear Tony V

From the article

"It is usually a very difficult process to burn liquid hydrocarbon fuels in a clean way with no soot production."

Was this written by someone who is unfamiliar with combustion?  How could such a statement be supported?  Liquid hydrocarbons are easily burned soot-free by providing the correct conditions.  Kerosene is an example of a hydrocarbon fuel.  Not only is it possible to burn it without any formation of soot, it can be burned without any flame!  The Japanese have led the field for some time (FLOX, it is called – flameless oxidation).

So the formation of a swirling blue flame brings these researchers from the past into the 80`s or 90`s.  FLOX moves past having any flame at all. Perhaps that will provide the next opportunity for a coding project.

Stay well
Crispin






From: Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org<mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>> On Behalf Of Tony Vovers
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 4:13
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org<mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>>
Subject: [Stoves] Is the Blue Whirl really a 'thing'

Recently the news media has been popping articles about a new type of flame being called a Blue Whirl.

Is this really something new?
Is there some lessons here about rotation in a stove burn chamber of stove design?

The article is about liquid combustion, not wood gas.

Here's one example there are several buzzing the airwaves....

https://www.inverse.com/innovation/video-bizarre-flame-is-the-future-of-low-emissions<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.inverse.com%2Finnovation%2Fvideo-bizarre-flame-is-the-future-of-low-emissions&data=02%7C01%7C%7C88e8a1ccb5e04e60074a08d8483a303f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637338762038135054&sdata=PPZAG5Zez7CWh7Wip4hGNGaeEf73mlHNm0b2U4Jynvo%3D&reserved=0>

Interested
TonyV
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