[Stoves] Yet another review paper (2014): Perspectives in Household Air Pollution Research: Who Will Benefit from Interventions

[Ronal Larson]

Gordon, Bill, List and Nikhil

	Thanks for this reply.  

	I should note that I have visited Gordon and Bill in Silver City, New Mexico.  I traveled with Bill to Palomas (a border town in Mexico) and seen the nice stove work they have done there (all at Gordon/Bill own expense).  Gordon and Bill have literally dozens of char-making apparati scattered around their New Mexico facility.  A facility that includes developing a continuous TLUD.

> On Jan 2, 2020, at 10:17 AM, Gordon West <gordon.west at rtnewmexico.com> wrote:
> 
> Ron- Again,  My query to this list is - how can we best use the fact that char-making stoves can make money for their users?  Nikhil has failed to address that issue.  Is mine a non-serious question?  One has to believe that climate change is real to get into this topic in a serious way.
	[RWL:   The above all a quote from me - today.  Not a question from Gordon.
> 
> I have presented the following concept before to the list, but not in a direct response to anything like Ron’s current question. Bill Knauss has developed a stove that was conceived to address micro-scale biochar making within a certain economic system. The stoves are not cheap, however, especially not in the context of selling them to people in a poor subsistence context. Because that seems to be a foundational condition for the stoves list, we haven’t tried to pitch it here to any extent.
> 
> But here’s the concept, which was tailored to serve Palomas, a small town just across the border in Mexico:
> 
> The stoves are a version of TLUD with a 24” tall steel cylinder in a range of diameters - 4", 6”, 8”. They are forced draft, but of a very small fan (.5A computer fan, can run off of a small PV panel or battery). They can be turned down about 2:1 to control heat output, and will run 2-3 hours depending upon feedstock density. I have cooked turkeys in mine using one batch in a 4” cylinder. The 8” is more for space heating.  Immediately above the cylinder the syngas enters an air mixing and combustion chamber, and just above that is a nice, clean flame over which a variety of cooking devices can be used (pot, oven (kettle barbecue), cooktop, pressure cooker), or space heating. We are making some effort to get a fabricator in Palomas to make them because they will be much cheaper than if we do it, and it will be good for the poverty stricken economy of the village of Palomas. They aren’t especially difficult to make for a moderately skilled welder (like me…).
	[RWL:  Thanks for this.  I have seen the turkey cooker - and it is nice looking piece of equipment.  I hope others will follow up on this unit and the smaller ones.
> 
> The distribution part of the approach is to have some entity with money build/buy the stoves and give them to residents with a contract that says they will get the stove and free feedstock in exchange for the produced biochar, which will be aggregated for marketing and sale. Calculations indicate that a family will produce around a ton of biochar annually, so they can pay off the stove in a year or so. After that, they can either keep the char for their own purposes, or continue to exchange it for free feedstock plus payment. There isn’t any biomass to speak of near Palomas, so it must be imported from a little ways off, the primary source being pecan shells, which are a disposal problem for the many pecan processors within 100 miles of there - we’re talking maybe 400 tons per day. We are buying semi-truck loads for the price of shipping - $400 for 40,000 pounds. 
	[RWL:  I had missed this 20 ton number.  $20/ton -  cheaper than around $50 near Denver - for beetle-kill chips.  With maybe a 50 mile travel distance in Denver.
I like the  “give them to residents” phrase.  This can become more practical if there is a recognized connection to climate funds.  Using waste materials is often mentioned as a key part of future biochar activities.
	Exchanging produced char for new fuel is probably key to getting climate groups also involved.
> 
> I have never worked in Africa or India, so I can’t claim to understand how things work there (other than what I learn here). But it seems that an NGO (however evil and stupid they might be) could be persuaded to try out the Palomas model of giving people more productive (even if more expensive) stoves that can be paid for simply by using them for free and returning the char to the NGO for use in its many beneficial forms. The feedstock could be produced in areas of plentiful biomass - used directly if in the right form (pecan shells) or pelletized if in a less dense or uniform condition - and distributed to communities instead of propane in bottles, or other carbon contributing fuel that only costs, and does not pay.
	[RWL:   One disagreement is with the phrase “more expensive”.  Yes more so than 3-stone - but charcoal-making stoves can be as low cost any “improved” stove.  And of course I support most everything else here.
	When Gordon uses the phrase “- however evil and stupid they might be” - these are a quote - not his own words.

	This is going a long way to my question in this string of exchanges - the other part is getting climate related government agencies to be aware of how cookstoves can help their climate/CO2 mission.  Money is already officially at $15/tonne CO2 (Maybe $45/tonne of char) - and we regularly hear of numbers much higher for non-biochar approaches.

	Gordon - thanks for this useful addition to the current possible stove/climate  dialog.  

	Anyone have a similar story?

Ron

Cc Please say hello to Bill.

>  
> Gordon West
> The Trollworks
> 503 N. “E” Street
> Silver City, NM 88061
> 575-537-3689
> 
> An entrepreneur sees problems as the seeds of opportunity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jan 2, 2020, at 9:20 AM, Ronal Larson <rongretlarson at comcast.net <mailto:rongretlarson at comcast.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> Again,  My query to this list is - how can we best use the fact that char-making stoves can make money for their users?  Nikhil has failed to address that issue.  Is mine a non-serious question?  One has to believe that climate change is real to get into this topic in a serious way.
>> 
> 
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