[Stoves] Seeking Advice: Technical Evaluation of the Patung-Patong Brick Stove
Ronal Larson
rongretlarson at comcast.net
Fri Mar 12 18:03:12 CST 2021
Jed; cc list
It’s very good to hear from you again. To others - Jed/Joshua easily holds the world record for best artistic stoves. No complaints/comments about that being absent in today’s video and discussion, because he has to simplify for a commercial market,
But I hope Jed can still share any new ones that are as uniquely artistic as in the past.
More below.
.
> On Mar 10, 2021, at 9:04 PM, Joshua Guinto <jed.building.bridges at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Fellow Stovers
>
> It has been awhile, please excuse me for my silence. Life and career here in the Philippines has not been gentle considering the series of disasters on top of the COVID 19 pandemic. I really "hit the ground" and am now just about getting up.
[RWL1: Did you have the virus? Also recent hurricanes? You looked well (and academic) in the video.
>
> I now work as a university professor at the College of Agriculture and Natural Sciences of the Camarines Norte State College. simply put : CANR-CNSC.And being a novice professor, i had to learn the academic culture and work routines. But the exciting part for this academe community is the wealth of technology and experience i am infusing into the school.
[RWL2; Congratulations on this new well deserved position.
ASIDE. In googling for CNSC, I see an attractive pentagon symbol - especially with the word “spectrum” and five colors (in the right order!). I think there could be a benefit if your six-sided (three bricks per layer) had a sister design with the five “trapezoid bricks” of the CNSC spectrum. A swirl injection would be a natural on the secondary air layer as a short side of one trapezoid butts up against a long side of a neighboring trapezoid. More bricks, but a simpler shape to make.
I’ve never seen a five-sided stove, but I’m pretty sure it would be better than the four-sided you have avoided with three bricks - each providing one side and two half-sides.
to other respondents - this will only make sense after you see the school’s ’spectrum” publication.
>
> And so to begin with i was asked to start doing research on the technologies i developed and on the top of the list is the cook stove i have been tinkering for almost a decade.
[RWL3: You could also do a world service by adding the biochar soil benefits to your workload. I’m not sure there is any skilled stove designer so near to the agsoil benefits of his/her stove design (your now being in an “ag” department)..
>
> I present to you the Patung-patong. (in Filipino it simply means put on top of one another). This stove i would like to bring to a technical evaluation using scientific parameters.
[RWL3': You certainly have the vertical description in this title - but the three bricks (or five) circumferentially is also a major feature worth promoting.
Any data to report on commercial sales?
> i hereby would like to ask for a guidance on what best paths to take to have an technical evaluation of the stove... first is about it being a COOK STOVES
[RWL4: You have several new features here that I don’t recall in your earlier stoves;
a. The bricks are now apparently high temperature, highly insulative. Very expensive in the US. Can you tell us more about these bricks - and especially is charcoal involved at all?
b. The cookpot stand-offs seem to be quite advanced - both in the top ceramics layer and the metal. This could be very interesting to the stove world as you perform water boiling tests with the same water amount in cookpots of different sizes and shapes (maybe with skirts and without) - using all the ways you have designed the stove top.
c. I’ve seen an extra slanted (45 degrees?) fuel container before - but not in TLUDs. Obviously adds a bit to the cost, but allows for maybe a doubling (?) in run time. Tell us more on why you have added this feature - and how it is received by users.
d. Can you add more on stove cost - especially comparing to the competition. Any way to say how many months of use are needed to compete with a 3-stone stove?
> and second being a CHARCOAL MAKING STOVE.
[RWL5: a. You are now ahead of most of us in that world.
b. Being now in academia - you have a great chance to get everything about this stove done through student-designed testing - both in the lab and in user’s homes. AND especially with char in the fields - or classroom pot tests.
c. You should explore how long you can be making char by adding extra fuel from the top (and side?)
d. I’ve never seen any data on a stove operating for as long as possible as a TLUD, then removing the char quickly and then go into a rocket mode to finish up (leaving some hot char that is itself already combusting). Can aa user do this changeover in a minute? Having such non-charcoal making mode could help sell more stoves - while still retaining 90 (?) % of the initial char - when needed..
> the third is about the cost effectiveness of this stove for a household in terms of fuel savings.
[RWL 6 a. You seem to have an efficient stove with fuel savings given that you are getting 25% char by weight. Many TlUDS are getting less.
b. A simple water boiling test will give you the energy parameter numbers most stove sponsors are most interested in. Glad to help with that “ISO” computation.
c. I don’t know enough about low cost ways to measur. CO and particulates with the needed accuracy - but I recall that you know Dean Still and Apro. Maybe others reading this can tell what the nearest testing lab is - and the costs. Your device at 18 kg weight is able to be shipped and tested somewhere - but you’ll need funds that your today’s note might turn up.
d. I believe the Ag soil benefits (over centuries) far exceeds its fuel savings benefits.
>
> Attached is a poster about the stove.
[RWL7: Attractive!
a. This says ‘medium” model. Can you also give the similar small and large stove model dimensions - and who is buying what. I remember your video of a restaurant with a large oil-vat. Can you now duplicate that in this new design? Or the large?
b. This poster and stove is totally independent of CNSC? See above comment on pentagons - which might or might not be something you want to do.
> You may also see a short video clip on how to use it at
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6IdvO_HuJE <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6IdvO_HuJE>
[RWL8: This a very good video.
I hope you can insert some more English translations - as in the end. English will help with raising funds. Also might be helpful to add your name and new academic position in here somewhere on the poster.
I guess there may be some advantage in the Philippines to seeing the label “rocket stove” - because it can operate as one - ss can any TLUD. But the reverse is never true - no rocket can make char - the most valuable co-product that can be so important in the Philippines.
if it were me, I’d replace “rocket" with ‘advanced char-making”.
or maybe “combined char-making and rocket”. I leave out “TLUD” because that won’t sell any stoves.
And especially appropriate for your designing a stove to make a product with mainly ag benefits - easily able to cover any extra stove costs.
>
> Hoping for any leads.
>
> Thanks in advance.
[RWL9: may not be any leads above - but its great to hear from you and to add a few thought on what you have been up to.
Thank you for sharing. You do excellent work. CNSC is lucky to have you.
Ron
>
> Jed Guinto
>
> Joshua B. Guinto
> Specialist, Appropriate Technology
> MSc Management of AgroEcological Knowledge and Social Change (MAKS)
> Wageningen University, The Netherlands 2006 to 2008
> Recipient, International Fellowships Programme Award (IFP) 2005
> Ford Foundation
>
> <Patung Patong Rocket Stove.jpg>_______________________________________________
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