<html><head><base href="x-msg://49/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Kevin , <div><br></div><div>Your insights are very much appreciated. It's a unique irony that my friend, whom I mentioned in the last post (Francis Kavita) has practical experience in binding just such material into a tight briquette. ( he has been teaching same skill to the Masaai and I can assure you that if it did not work or as faulty he would not be returning as he does to extend his skills in Masaainni. I will be sure to find out and revert to the list in week or so.. (Francis does not really have access to a computer up there in Miumbuni village, so his son receives his e-mail then posts a letter to him ...).</div><div>We can probably go one better by finding aromatice ag residues to make the dung actually emit a pleasent aroma...once washed free of its soluables. I have no idea about the need or desire for maneur tea amongst a pastoral peoples but times are changing... </div><div><br></div><div>Richard Stanley</div><div>Ashland Oregon</div><div>nchi ya maziwa and asali<br><div><div> <br><div><div>On Dec 6, 2010, at 9:48 PM, Kevin wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div lang="EN-CA" link="blue" bgcolor="white" vlink="purple"><div><font size="2" face="Arial">Dear Crispin</font></div><div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div><div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> The basic concept I propose is as follows:</span></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">1: Slurry the dung with water</span></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">2: Filter the water and any solubles and press the remaining dung cake.</span></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">3: Shape and dry the remaining dung cake</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "></span> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">1: Slurry the dung:</span></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Mix the dung with water, to an "adequate" degree of dilution, such that most of the solubles will be dissolve in the wash water. If water is readily available, and if there is a large need for irrigation water for agriculture, then single stage washing can probably be used. If water is scarce, and if the scale of operation is small, it might be better to do a "two stage wash",</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "></span> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">2: Filtering</span></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Separation of the water from the slurry can be done in a number of ways. The first stage of water and solubles separation is probably best done by simple decantation. Floating material can be skimmed off the top, and relatively clear liquid can then be drained off. However, it should be filtered through cloth, to ensure that a clear liquid is produced, if the manure tea is to be used in a "fertigation system" involving relatively small distribution nozzles that may be prone to plugging. The remaining bottom material will still be very wet, and is probably best dewatered using a filter press system, or filter bags.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "></span> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">3: Shaping the washed dung.</span></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Depending on the desired end use, the moist washed dung can then be shaped to the desired final shape, and then dried. Obviously, many shapes are possible:</span></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">* Briquettes</span></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">* Pellets</span></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">* Sheets</span></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">* Etc.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "></span> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">The washed dung will tend to be high in lignin, and relatively low in cellulose, in that the animal would have digested much of the original cellulose in the feed. Depending on the degree of washing and the characteristics of the washed dung, it may, or may not have sufficient binders to hold the washed dung together in the desired shape. Experimental work would be necessary to determine if added binders would be required, and quantities required. </span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "></span> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Following are my comments on the replies received to date....</span></div></div><blockquote dir="ltr" style="border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; "><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; ">----- Original Message -----</div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="crispinpigott@gmail.com" href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Crispin Pemberton-Pigott</a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'</a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, December 06, 2010 1:48 PM</div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Stoves] Drawing down the dung pile</div><div><br></div><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Dear Doctor Dung<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">The offer is welcome. Perhaps the answer is to briquette it then, using the process to wash it. Leach, I can see, standing in a perforated container.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "></span> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p># I would suggest that teh washing must be done before briquetting. Frank (see below) suggests one good looking way to wash teh dung.</o:p></span></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Water is often a simultaneous constraint but there will be places where dung and water are available, which means a market.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "></span> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "># The process would be of greatest advantage in connection with a farming operation, where the leached solubles can be productively used for both watering and fertilizing of crops. If tehre is not such a farming use for the washed solubles, then there could be a significant disposal problem.</span></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Remember that in this region the stoves will all have a chimney because space heating is desperately required. Leakage will be a more important consideration than emissions (though obviously I favour reducing emissions as well).</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "></span> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "># This would certainly be helpful for the occupants inside teh house, but if a lot of dung is being burned, and if the location is prone to inversions, where teh smoke "hangs low", then there could be a community pollution problem.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "></span> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div> </div><div>----- Original Message -----<div>From: "frank" <<a href="mailto:frank@compostlab.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">frank@compostlab.com</a>></div><div>To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>></div><div>Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 2:01 PM</div><div>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Drawing down the dung pile</div></div><div><br></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; ">Stovers,<br><br>I have washed a lot of dung and compost. We like to have it clean : )<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>When doing weed seed testing we wash out all the salts and soluble<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>organics that, if remained, can make the mix go anaerobic. We wash until<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>the electrical conductivity is less than 1 mmhos/cm. Then place the mud<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>on a bed of sand to let drain and air both above and below. Then add<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>seeds to one corner to make sure if there were weed seeds they have the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>conditions to grow.</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><font color="#000000" size="2"># It is the soluble salts and organics that are teh most valuable agricultural nutrients. I am guessing that teh soluble organics would have a tendancy to hold water and slow the natural drying of dung. Removing them from teh remaining fiber should allow easier drying. Washing to give a conductivity of less than 1 mmhos/cm would certainly be necessary in a repeatable test, but such repeatable results may not be required when the end product is intended for fuel.</font><br><br>The washing is done by the following: Place dung in a five gallon<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>bucket., fill with water and mix. Prepare a smaller plastic bucket by<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>cutting out the bottom , duct tape a fine mesh screen over the bottom.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>With up-N-down motion move the smaller bucked down through the muddy<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>water. The up-N-down keeps the screen clean. The water that goes into<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>the small bucket is removed by a smaller bucket until as much of the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>water as possible is removed. Then repeat the process until the water is<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>clear or the EC is below one mmhos/cm.</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><font color="#000000" size="2"># This sounds like a very good basic process.Cheap and simple.</font><br><br></div><div>----- Original Message -----<div>From: <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></div><div>To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>>; "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">crispinpigott@gmail.com</a>></div><div>Cc: <<a href="mailto:wastemin1@verizon.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">wastemin1@verizon.net</a>>; "Stoves" <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>></div><div>Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 6:26 PM</div><div>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Drawing down the dung pile</div></div><div><br></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; ">> Dear Crispin, Kevin, Frank and all,<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> I have read the later responses, and I like the "washing", but only if <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> it is clearly shown that a type of dung (each type to be considered <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> separately) does emit "bad stuff" if not washed. Or wash it if <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> nutient value for plants is shown to make it worthwhile.</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><font color="#000000" size="2"># I don't have specific references to investigations showing that "dung fuel is hazardous", but I do know that combustion of organic materials containing chl;orides will produce dioxins. I have seen somewhere that there is a high incidence of blindness among elderly Indian Women who have tended dung fires. Manure tea is well known for its advantages to agriculture.</font><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Otherwise, the extra work (and water that might not be plentiful) <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> could make dung fuel to be too much trouble to be well utilized widely.</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><font color="#000000" size="2"># Good point. There must be clear and palpable benefits from teh extra effort required to wash the dung. Such benefits could include:</font></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><font color="#000000" size="2">1: Better burning fuel</font></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><font color="#000000" size="2">2: valuable fertilizer benefit</font></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><font color="#000000" size="2">3: Cleaner and more acceptable fuel, less liable to harbour insects and pests, easier to handle, etc.</font></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><font color="#000000" size="2">4: Health benefit</font></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><font color="#000000" size="2">5: Higher calorific value per pound or kg of fuel, due to higher lignin content.</font></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><font color="#000000" size="2">6: Others?</font> <br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Washed or not, I like dung fuel, have used it a little in India, and <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> would like to be part of the team.</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><font color="#000000" size="2"># It seems a shame to burn the fertilizer components of manure.</font><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> In case you couldn't guess, my interest is in using dung fuel in TLUDs <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> (of various designs). Because TLUDs need "chunky dry biomass", I <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> will work on having appropriate sizes. Here are some initial thoughts:<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> 1. Llama dung is the right size, as is the size from sheep and some <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> other animals. "Correct size" dung should not be washed (unless shown <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> to be with undesirable emissions. And that refers to the emissions <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> from TLUDs that have great abilities for nearly eliminating CO and PM. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> But does the other "bad stuff" get through the TLUD fire? Not yet <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> studied, as far as I know.</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><font color="#000000" size="2"># A major objection to Municipal Solid Waste Incinerators comes from tehir production of dioxins. This is well documented. Dioxins can be removed from such gas streams, but a special "dioxin capture system" is required. If TLUD's burn a fuel containing chlorides, tehy will definitely produce dioxins, and if teh TLUD's do not have a dioxin capture system, they will indeed be releasing dioxins.</font><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> 2. Llamas have the nice habit of pooping in just a few locations. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Easy to collect it. And it is already in use widely in the high Andes <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> mountains area. And llamas as "luxury animals" or pets or for fine <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> hair fibers are now found in the Affluent societies, so there is <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> moderate access to the dung for experimental purposes.</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><font color="#000000" size="2"># Certainly, this behaviour pattern can be used to great advantage. However, to eliminate the dioxin concern, teh well shaped llama and sheep poo would have to be washed, and in tgeh process, this initial shape advanyage would be lost.</font><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> 3. For TLUDs. in India we made dung tablets. Could work also with <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> washed dung, maybe even better if washed. And it can be mixed with <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> sawdust or rice husks or other small-particle biomass that could even <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> be wet/green because the tablets need to be dried. The dung (or <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> mixture) is spread out on a firm flat surface (board, cement, asphalt, <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> whatever) about 1 to 3 cm thick. While wet, it is "scored" or <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> imprinted with the edge of a piece of metal (like a license plate) or <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> wood form. The imprints are parallel and about 3 to 6 cm apart, and <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> then again imprinted perpendicular to the first lines. When the dung <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> is dry, the tablets hang together in pieces with 4 to 8 tablets <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> together. Can be turned with a spatula (a large one) for drying on <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> the bottom. When fully dried, they are placed into bags or boxes. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> the user finishes breaking them into the individual tablets when <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> placing the fuel into the TLUD (or other stove.).</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><font color="#000000" size="2"># As mentioned initially, teh washing process may remove natural binder substances, and replacement binders may be required.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></font><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> So, let's have an outline of a plan of actions. Do it on the Stoves <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Listserv in case we can attract a few more participants.<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Paul "Dr. TLUD"<br>> Proud to be working with "Captain Dung" or what was Kevin's name?</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><font color="#000000" size="2">Aheeem... "Dr. Dung." ;-) This is in addition to my other titles of "Dr Poo", where I fixed a sewage treatment plant, and "Dr. Slime" where I showed a friend how to eliminate slime from her fish pond.</font><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></div><div> </div><div>----- Original Message -----<div>From: <<a href="mailto:ajheggie@gmail.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">ajheggie@gmail.com</a>></div><div>To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>></div><div>Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 6:42 PM</div><div>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Drawing down the dung pile</div></div><div><br></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; ">> On Monday 06 December 2010 17:22:14 Kevin wrote:<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>><br>>> Years and years ago, I started a thread about using dung fuels and<br>>> interest in it was very conspicuous by its absence.<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> The my first swirl stove which I demonstrated to Ronal when he was here in<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> 2002 was fabricated in order to burn dung, I had a snappy name for<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> it ;-). Horse dung is a problem here because the small fields used<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> for "horseyculture" become horse sick from overgrazing and stabled horses<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> produce dunged bedding which the owners are not in a position to deal<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> with. Often because they are bedded on woodflakes the stable owners burn<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> the heap in a smouldering mass with a characteristic sickly sweet smell.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> One of the reasons I looked at the problem was because heavy stocking led<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> to parasitic worm infestations, some of the anthelmic treatments also<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> killed earth worms. So some owners would even collect the dung from the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> fields.<br>> <br># Reduction of such disease and parasite problems could be another benefit to clooecting dung, and washing it for fuel. However, this might concentrate teh problem. On teh other hand, if the pathogens "stayed with the washed dung", then they would end up being disposed of by burning <br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> From what I can<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> understand, dung fuels are about the worst possible fuel, "as is",<br>>> because of moisture and chlorides. Moisture makes for difficult<br>>> burning,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Yes often over the 80 odd % that means the energy needed to volatilise the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> moisture exceeds the heat available in the fuel.</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><font color="#000000" size="2"># If the dung is sun dried before being burned, teh problem will be significantly lessened</font><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> and chlorides make dioxins.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> I agree dioxins must have chlorine but I thought the route was via the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> break down of an organic chloride rather than the dissociation of an<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> mineral chloride.</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><font color="#000000" size="2"># No. Dioxins are formed at the "tail end of the combustion process", when the liberated chlorides, from either organic or inorganic sources, recombine with products of incomplete production.</font><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> I advocated washing the dung, to extract the solubles, and then using<br>>> the water extract as a liquid fertilizer. Then dry the residue, for use<br>>> as a fuel. It should then be a superior fuel to wood, in that it would<br>>> have a higher percentage of lignin, which has a higher heating value<br>>> per pound than cellulostic biomass.<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Even better if the dung has been through an anaerobic process first, then<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> all the volatile solids are gone, the soluble minerals are in the "tea"<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> but how to separate the solid from the tea, drying is no good as this<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> would leave the minerals in the dried sludge. A farmer friend of mine<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> with an anaerobic digester for his dairy herd has a separator but I have<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> no idea how it works, the output still looks pretty wet.</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><font color="#000000" size="2"># Anaerobic digestion will, of course, yield methane as a fuel. The discharge from such a digester has all teh mineral nutrients, and all the lignin from the animal feed. However, it is a problem operating a thermophyllic or mesophyllic digester in cold climate situations. Frank's method (above) or some variant, could seperate out the liquid from teh anaerobic sludge, for direct field application.</font><br>>><br>>> Leaching the solubles from the "raw dung" should remove the chlorides,<br>>> and should virtually eliminate the creation of dioxins, while at the<br>>> same time, produce an excellent fertilizer solution, containing Ca, P,<br>>> K, and organics beneficial to plant growth.... hormones, proteins, and<br>>> nitrogen compounds.<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Yes this is what I would hope for.</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><font color="#000000" size="2">Yes, it does work, as evidenced by teh success of those using "manure tea."</font></div><font color="#000000" size="2"></font></div><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><br> </div><div> </div><div>----- Original Message -----<div>From: "frank" <<a href="mailto:frank@compostlab.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">frank@compostlab.com</a>></div><div>To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>></div><div>Cc: <<a href="mailto:wastemin1@verizon.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">wastemin1@verizon.net</a>></div><div>Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 7:07 PM</div><div>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Drawing down the dung pile</div></div><div><br></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; ">> Paul and all,<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> When washing dung most disappears in the wash water. So you are left<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> with a fraction of what you started with and a lot of anaerobic solution<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> that will need aeration to stable before a lot can be applied.</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><font color="#000000" size="2"># Since manure is applied directly to soil without an aerobic treatment, why couldn't the manure tea be directly applied without aeration?</font><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> The minerals in dung (not washed) will convert to carbonate (CaCO3,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> NaCO3 etc) form so there will be more liming of the soil if the salts<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> are not washed out (I think this is what happens). This not necessarily<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> a bad thing. If heated higher it may go to oxides. The oxides are more<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> of a problem because there is no buffering to keep the pH from going too<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> high when applied in high amounts.</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><font color="#000000" size="2"># I would think that the main soluble minerals in dung would be sodium and potassium chlorides. There may be a danger in very dry areas of sodium buildup in the soils.</font><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> The more minerals may cause more deposit in the stove as a crust. Has<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> this been seen in our small stoves? I have ashed a lot of organic<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> biomass material at 550 deg C and found a very small fraction of samples<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> form more than an ash that is easily removed from the container.</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "> </p><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><font color="#000000" size="2">I don't know enough about teh mineral constituents of dungs. Burning tests using teh washed dung would quickly show if ash was a concern.</font></div><font color="#000000" size="2"></font></o:p></span></div><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o:p></span></blockquote><blockquote dir="ltr" style="border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p><div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div><blockquote dir="ltr" style="border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; "><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; ">----- Original Message -----</div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="adkarve@gmail.com" href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Anand Karve</a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, December 06, 2010 11:32 PM</div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Stoves] Drawing down the dung pile</div><div><br></div><div>Dear Crispin,</div><div>dung cakes are regularly used as fuel even in India. In areas where the rainfall is scanty, and there are no trees, dung is used as the main cooking fuel. In the high Himalaya, above the tree line, yak dung is the only fuel available to the locals. The ash content of dung is normally very high. In the case of animals eating mainly grass, the ash would consist mainly of silica. I have heard of a of filter press, which can remove the water from the dung along with the dissolved minerals. This would leave a product with a higher calorific value. It can be briquetted and sold as a standard fuel.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#000000" size="2" face="Arial"># While the ash content might be high, that would only be a concern if it caused slagging. Washing teh dung would remove teh soluble minerals, which usually act as fluxes, lowering the ash melting temperature. </font></div><div>Yours</div><div>A.D.Karve<br></div><div><div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div><blockquote dir="ltr" style="border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; "><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; ">----- Original Message -----</div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="rstanley@legacyfound.org" href="mailto:rstanley@legacyfound.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Richard Stanley</a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, December 07, 2010 12:21 AM</div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Stoves] Drawing down the dung pile</div><div><br></div>AD, Crispin, Frank, Kevin and all others concerned with dung briquettes, <div><br></div><div>While in Arusha Tanzania recently, I discovered that one of the lead briquette trainers in Kenya, Francis Kavita, has been teaching the Masaai how to make co dung briquettes for the past several months. Your insights, Kevin and frank about carcinogens/ chloride blindness etc are intersting and I have duely passed them on to Francis. </div><div>As to dilution of nasty compounds the normal wet low pressure briquetting process uses water--- but rarely is anything wasted in the process. The water expelled for the cylinder on compression, is recycled as well. </div><div> </div><div><font color="#000000" size="2" face="Arial"># OK! Such recycling of teh "wash water" or "manure tea" would give a tea of higher concentration, and this could be advantageous in areas where water is scarce.</font></div><div><br></div><div>However the practice of washing away unwanted elements is common to briquetters as it is to conventional washing of seeds, beans cassava and other plant material in traditional food preparation. In briquetting, certain carcinogenic and foul smelling glues in certain types of cartonboard are diluted nad washed off this way. There is no real reason that the same technique could be applied for preparing "clean cow dung" as well.</div><div> Will revert back to the group with what Francis says about all this..when he next finds a nearby internet cafe with electricity or at least petrol for their generator. </div><div> </div><div><font color="#000000" size="2" face="Arial"># Yes, it would be helpful to have his feedback.</font></div><div><font color="#000000" size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div><div>Thanks again though for the insights.</div><div>Richard Stanley</div><div> </div><div>Best wishes,</div><div> </div><div><font color="#000000" size="2" face="Arial">Kevin Chisholm, aka "Dr. Dung."</font><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></o:p></span><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="border-bottom-width: medium; border-bottom-style: none; border-bottom-color: initial; border-left-width: medium; border-left-style: none; border-left-color: initial; padding-bottom: 0cm; padding-left: 0cm; padding-right: 0cm; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-style: solid; border-right-width: medium; border-right-style: none; border-right-color: initial; padding-top: 3pt; "><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; ">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Kevin<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>07 December 2010 01:22<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Stoves] Drawing down the dung pile<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; ">Dear Crispin</span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; ">Years and years ago, I started a thread about using dung fuels and interest in it was very conspicuous by its absence. From what I can understand, dung fuels are about the worst possible fuel, "as is", because of moisture and chlorides. Moisture makes for difficult burning, and chlorides make dioxins. Also, the very people who are so desperate as to need to burn dung for fuels are usually the same people who are equivalently desperate for fertilizer. I understand also that blindness is very common with Indian Women who have been using dung fuels.</span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; ">I advocated washing the dung, to extract the solubles, and then using the water extract as a liquid fertilizer. Then dry the residue, for use as a fuel. It should then be a superior fuel to wood, in that it would have a higher percentage of lignin, which has a higher heating value per pound than cellulostic biomass.</span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; ">Leaching the solubles from the "raw dung" should remove the chlorides, and should virtually eliminate the creation of dioxins, while at the same time, produce an excellent fertilizer solution, containing Ca, P, K, and organics beneficial to plant growth.... hormones, proteins, and nitrogen compounds.</span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; ">I'd be glad to work with you, in developing a "dung washing system.". I think it could help with both fuel and fertilizer needs</span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; ">Best wishes,</span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; "><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; ">Kevin Chisholm, aka "Doctor Dung." :-)</span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; margin-right: 0cm; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><hr><div style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; margin-right: 0cm; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><a href="mailto:Stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><div style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; margin-right: 0cm; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><hr><div style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; margin-right: 0cm; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="avgcert" align="left" color="#000000" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; margin-right: 0cm; ">No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG -<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.avg.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3300 - Release Date: 12/06/10</p></blockquote>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><a href="mailto:Stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></body></html>