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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Dear Otto</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>According to this article, <A
href="http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKHKG7593720070912">http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKHKG7593720070912</A>,
Jatropha oil yields per acre are low and erratic.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>According to this article, <A
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jatropha">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jatropha</A>,
it is, among other things, toxic and carcinogenic. It is a very hardy plant, and
under the right conditions, can become a plant pest. Australia banned
one species of Jatropha.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Rape seed yields a toxic oil. However, Canada
developed a variety of Rape Seed, called Canola, that is non-toxic, and is now a
very common cooking oil. Perhaps plant breeding can develop a new variety of
Jatropha that is non-toxic, and has better yields.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>There are many areas in stove development that can
yield highly productive results. With the apparent problems associated with
Jatropha, </FONT> <FONT size=2 face=Arial>would it perhaps be
better for the Stove Community to focus its limited resources on other
opportunities to improve stove systems?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Best wishes,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Kevin</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=formo-o@online.no href="mailto:formo-o@online.no">Otto Formo</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=ottojonathan@hotmail.com
href="mailto:ottojonathan@hotmail.com">Jonathan Otto</A> ; <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 21, 2011 7:55
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] jatropa does not
burn well for us ....but it probably</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Jonathan,<BR>Thanks for the very usefull informatiopn.<BR>Ones
should be very carefull to use any kind of biomass as fuel for cooking, due to
the fact that some plants or scrubs are toxic and might give some toxic
emissions, which needs to be tested in independent labs. <BR>The sooner the
better to avoid "cathastroific" results.<BR>"Otto"<BR><BR>> From: Jonathan
Otto [ottojonathan@hotmail.com]<BR>> Sent: 2011-01-21 12:38:58 MET<BR>>
To: <A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR>>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] jatropa does not burn well for us ....but it
probably<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Friends,<BR>> <BR>> J oil is
indeed quite poisonous to humans and other animals, as are the seeds. No
animals will eat the leaves of mature shrubs either. Two examples of
toxicity:<BR>> <BR>> At the University of Zimbabwe some
years grad students had roasted a quantity of J seeds for some
experiment, before they left the lab for lunch. Hungry colleagues
spotted the roasted nuts and tried a few ... they survived, but experienced
violent bowel problems.<BR>> .<BR>> In Uganda, the cook of some friends
of mine ran out of cooking to make dinner. She remembered seeing a gerry can
of some oil in the back of the store room, and used that J oil to make a
poisonous and strange tasting sauce ... again, no fatalities, but several
people reporting wishing themselves dead for some hours.<BR>>
<BR>> And then there is the enterprising woman an Moshi, Tanzania, who
removes the black coating of J seeds, and markets 2 little white seeds in a
tiny plastic bag as the cure for constipation! No one has ever complained that
the product failed ... there is a reason one of it's popular names is 'physic
nut'.<BR>> <BR>> Seriously, this toxicity is a major concern for
any effort to popularize a J oil stove or lamp, as the fuel would be stored
around the house in unlabeled containers. Everyone who grows up around J
seeds knows their poisonous -- ask any goat in Africa; but the oil
presents a different problem. Another reason that I'm glad we have found our
way to a TLUD stove that uses whole seed.<BR>> <BR>>
Jonathan<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 11:39:00
+0100<BR>> From: formo-o@online.no<BR>> To: Samuel.Shiroff@BSHG.COM;
formo-o@online.no<BR>> CC: stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>> Subject:
Re: [Stoves] jatropa does not burn well for us ....but it probably<BR>>
<BR>> Sam,<BR>> I guess we all and "everybody" knows that Jatopha oil is
not considered as food, but most plant oil on the market of to day are
produced as food, as far as I know.<BR>> To promote that as fuel for
cooking, I find odd and very strange, thats all.<BR>> Otto<BR>>
<BR>> > From: Shiroff Samuel Neal (CR) [Samuel.Shiroff@BSHG.COM]<BR>>
> Sent: 2011-01-21 11:28:48 MET<BR>> > To: Otto Formo
[formo-o@online.no]<BR>> > Subject: AW: AW: [Stoves] jatropa does not
burn well for us ....but it probably<BR>> > <BR>> > Hi
Otto,<BR>> > <BR>> > Honestly I was always told that Jatropha oil
caused vomiting therefore making it absolutely impossible to eat no matter how
desperate. I therefore was not inclined to try it myself.<BR>> >
<BR>> > The website is www.plantoilcooker.org<BR>> > <BR>> >
Not sure where you see all of the dots.<BR>> > <BR>> >
Regards,<BR>> > Sam<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>>
> ********************************************<BR>> > Samuel N.
Shiroff<BR>> > BSH Bosch und Siemens Hausgeräte GmbH<BR>> >
Carl-Wery-Strasse 34<BR>> > 81739 Munich<BR>> > Germany<BR>>
> T: +49 89 4590-3039<BR>> > F: +49 89 4590-3249<BR>> > E:
samuel.shiroff@bshg.com<BR>> > www.bsh-group.com /
www.plantoilcooker.org<BR>> > <BR>> > Protos. The Plant Oil
Cooker.<BR>> > An Initiative of Bosch and Siemens Home Appliances
Group.<BR>> > <BR>> > Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Joe
Kaeser<BR>> > Geschäftsführung: Dr. Kurt-Ludwig Gutberlet (Vors.),
Johannes Närger, Jean Dufour, Winfried Seitz<BR>> > Sitz: München;
Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRB 75534;<BR>> > WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE
57986696<BR>> > <BR>> > Diese Mitteilung ist ausschließlich für
den beabsichtigten Empfänger bestimmt. Sie kann Betriebs- oder
Geschäftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten.
Jede(r) unberechtigte Gebrauch, Kopie, Weitergabe oder Veröffentlichung ist
untersagt. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrtümlich erhalten haben, benachrichtigen
Sie uns bitte sofort durch Antwortmail und löschen Sie diese E-Mail nebst
etwaigen Anlagen und einschließlich aller angefertigten Kopien von Ihrem
System.<BR>> > <BR>> > This message is for the sole use of the
intended recipient(s) and may contain trade secrets or other confidential and
privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, copy, disclosure or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
inform us immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message including any
attachment or copies thereof from your system.<BR>> > <BR>> >
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----<BR>> > Von: Otto Formo
[mailto:formo-o@online.no]<BR>> > Gesendet: Freitag, 21. Januar 2011
11:18<BR>> > An: Shiroff, Samuel Neal (CR); Otto Formo;
stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>> > Betreff: SV: AW: [Stoves] jatropa
does not burn well for us ....but it probably<BR>> > <BR>> >
Samuel,<BR>> > Well, it depends what kind of "desperate" situation you
are in...........:)<BR>> > Your wedside says:<BR>> >
www.plantoilcooker.org.........correct??<BR>> > Otto<BR>> >
<BR>> > <BR>> > > From: Shiroff Samuel Neal (CR)
[Samuel.Shiroff@BSHG.COM]<BR>> > > Sent: 2011-01-21 11:08:42
MET<BR>> > > To: Otto Formo [formo-o@online.no],
stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>> > > Subject: AW: [Stoves]
jatropa does not burn well for us ....but it probably<BR>> >
><BR>> > > But Otto, you can't eat Jatropha Oil anyway. It
is also hard to eat rice and other staples without cooking them first.<BR>>
> ><BR>> > >
********************************************<BR>> > > Samuel N.
Shiroff<BR>> > > BSH Bosch und Siemens Hausgeräte GmbH<BR>> >
> Carl-Wery-Strasse 34<BR>> > > 81739 Munich<BR>> > >
Germany<BR>> > > T: +49 89 4590-3039<BR>> > > F: +49 89
4590-3249<BR>> > > E: samuel.shiroff@bshg.com<BR>> > >
www.bsh-group.com / www.plantoilcooker.org<BR>> > ><BR>> > >
Protos. The Plant Oil Cooker.<BR>> > > An Initiative of Bosch and
Siemens Home Appliances Group.<BR>> > ><BR>> > >
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Joe Kaeser<BR>> > > Geschäftsführung:
Dr. Kurt-Ludwig Gutberlet (Vors.), Johannes Närger, Jean Dufour, Winfried
Seitz<BR>> > > Sitz: München; Registergericht: Amtsgericht München,
HRB 75534;<BR>> > > WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 57986696<BR>> >
><BR>> > > Diese Mitteilung ist ausschließlich für den
beabsichtigten Empfänger bestimmt. Sie kann Betriebs- oder
Geschäftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten.
Jede(r) unberechtigte Gebrauch, Kopie, Weitergabe oder Veröffentlichung ist
untersagt. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrtümlich erhalten haben, benachrichtigen
Sie uns bitte sofort durch Antwortmail und löschen Sie diese E-Mail nebst
etwaigen Anlagen und einschließlich aller angefertigten Kopien von Ihrem
System.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > This message is for the sole use
of the intended recipient(s) and may contain trade secrets or other
confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, copy,
disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient, please inform us immediately by reply e-mail and delete this
message including any attachment or copies thereof from your system.<BR>>
> ><BR>> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----<BR>> >
> Von: Otto Formo [mailto:formo-o@online.no]<BR>> > > Gesendet:
Freitag, 21. Januar 2011 11:07<BR>> > > An: Shiroff, Samuel Neal
(CR); stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>> > > Betreff: SV: [Stoves]
jatropa does not burn well for us ....but it probably<BR>> >
><BR>> > > Thanks for the information on Jatropha oil.<BR>>
> > Tests has been made in Norway to detect any toxic emmission from the
seed cake when burned into cookingstoves.<BR>> > > Since there is
some content of N (nitrogen) in the seed cake we are afraied it might give
some NOX from the emmision, when used as fuel, tests will tell.<BR>> >
> I will give you feedbacks as soon we have the report "in house".<BR>>
> > To use plantoil as a cooking fuel, I find as a waste of food,
sorry.<BR>> > > Otto<BR>> > ><BR>> > > > From:
Shiroff Samuel Neal (CR) [Samuel.Shiroff@BSHG.COM]<BR>> > > >
Sent: 2011-01-21 10:52:43 MET<BR>> > > > To:
stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>> > > > Subject: [Stoves]
jatropa does not burn well for us ....but it probably<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > > Hi,<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > >
As many of you know BSH has developed a universal plant oil cookstove.
Jatropha oil burns beautifully in it.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
> Naturally if the focus remains on using the lowest added-value fuel,
pressed and filtered plant oil is not the first choice. Nevertheless if
you are working on a project and have Jatropha available in significant
quantities, I would be very happy to speak with you.<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > > Regards,<BR>> > > > Sam<BR>> >
> ><BR>> > > >
********************************************<BR>> > > > Samuel N.
Shiroff<BR>> > > > BSH Bosch und Siemens Hausgeräte GmbH<BR>>
> > > Carl-Wery-Strasse 34<BR>> > > > 81739
Munich<BR>> > > > Germany<BR>> > > > T: +49 89
4590-3039<BR>> > > > F: +49 89 4590-3249<BR>> > > > E:
samuel.shiroff@bshg.com<BR>> > > > www.bsh-group.com /
www.plantoilcooker.org<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Protos.
The Plant Oil Cooker.<BR>> > > > An Initiative of Bosch and
Siemens Home Appliances Group.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > >
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Joe Kaeser<BR>> > > >
Geschäftsführung: Dr. Kurt-Ludwig Gutberlet (Vors.), Johannes Närger, Jean
Dufour, Winfried Seitz<BR>> > > > Sitz: München; Registergericht:
Amtsgericht München, HRB 75534;<BR>> > > > WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE
57986696<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Diese Mitteilung ist
ausschließlich für den beabsichtigten Empfänger bestimmt. Sie kann Betriebs-
oder Geschäftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige vertrauliche Informationen enthalten.
Jede(r) unberechtigte Gebrauch, Kopie, Weitergabe oder Veröffentlichung ist
untersagt. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail irrtümlich erhalten haben, benachrichtigen
Sie uns bitte sofort durch Antwortmail und löschen Sie diese E-Mail nebst
etwaigen Anlagen und einschließlich aller angefertigten Kopien von Ihrem
System.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > This message is for the
sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain trade secrets or other
confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, copy,
disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient, please inform us immediately by reply e-mail and delete this
message including any attachment or copies thereof from your system.<BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > -----Ursprüngliche
Nachricht-----<BR>> > > > Von:
stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] Im Auftrag von
stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>> > > > Gesendet:
Freitag, 21. Januar 2011 10:39<BR>> > > > An:
stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>> > > > Betreff: Stoves Digest,
Vol 5, Issue 21<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Send Stoves
mailing list submissions to<BR>> > >
>
stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > >
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<BR>> > >
>
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > or, via email, send a message with
subject or body 'help' to<BR>> > >
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digest..."<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
> Today's Topics:<BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
> 1. Re: (no subject) (Boston Nyer)<BR>> > >
> 2. Re: (no subject) (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)<BR>>
> > > 3. Re: jatropa does not burn well for us
....but it probably has<BR>> > >
> for others, somewhere (Richard
Stanley)<BR>> > > > 4. Re: Testing and
Development Laboratories (seb)<BR>> > > > 5. Re:
jatropa does not burn well for us ....but it probably has<BR>> > >
> for others, somewhere (Jonathan
Otto)<BR>> > > > 6. Re: jatropha does not burn
well for us ....but it probably<BR>> > >
> has for others, somewhere (Paul S.
Anderson)<BR>> > > > 7. Jatropha seeds wanted in
USA - can you bring to ETHOS?<BR>> > >
> (Paul S. Anderson)<BR>> > >
> 8. Re: Testing and Development Laboratories (Otto
Formo)<BR>> > > > 9. Re: jatropha does not burn
well for us ....but it probably<BR>> > >
> has for others, somewhere (Boston
Nyer)<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > >
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > Message: 1<BR>> > > > Date:
Thu, 20 Jan 2011 13:39:10 -0700<BR>> > > > From: Boston Nyer
<bostonnyer@gmail.com><BR>> > > > To: Discussion of biomass
cooking stoves<BR>> > >
>
<stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><BR>> > > > Subject: Re:
[Stoves] (no subject)<BR>> > > > Message-ID:<BR>> > >
>
<AANLkTi=Fnsf22+O=fRbvhCvPbSHOG1OUwc_YavO-bOPQ@mail.gmail.com><BR>>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<BR>> >
> ><BR>> > > > Hi Richard,<BR>> > > ><BR>>
> > > I have a related question to this discussion, which I think is
interesting.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > At CU, we have a
Jatropha project that you fielded some questions about a<BR>> > >
> few months ago. As I'm sure you've heard, Jatropha seedcake does
not burn<BR>> > > > well, not even close. So, one of our
questions now is: what can we do with<BR>> > > > this waste
stream this is both useful and desirable?<BR>> > > ><BR>> >
> > One approach we will test is to carbonize the material and for
biochar<BR>> > > > briquettes (and a water filter media,
etc.). However, I wholeheartedly<BR>> > > > agree with your
sentiment on biochar briquettes. What is your opinion if<BR>> >
> > the ag-waste doesn't burn well normally? It still seems a bit
contrived,<BR>> > > > eh?<BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
> I'm looking forward to hearing your perspective.<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > > Cheers,<BR>> > > > Boston<BR>> >
> ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
><BR>> > > > On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Richard
Stanley<BR>> > > > <rstanley@legacyfound.org>wrote:<BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > > Jessica,<BR>> > > >
> Me again, I answered some of these questions to you in a post
directly to<BR>> > > > > you (as that one came directly
from you) --a few minutes ago, but<BR>> > > > > let me add a
few comments in reponse to your other questions here...( am<BR>> > >
> > responding in-kind below...)<BR>> > > > ><BR>>
> > > > On Jan 13, 2011, at 12:33 PM, Jessica De Clerck
wrote:<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > >
Hello,<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > I am looking
for some insight into an array of issues around fuel<BR>> > > >
> briquettes and stoves. I apologize for the long list! I am
hoping<BR>> > > > > Crispin, Dr. TLUD, Richard and others can
answer some of these.<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > >
*Burning Stalks*<BR>> > > > > At Stove Camp 2010, we used TLUDs
to burn what I recall were maize stalks<BR>> > > > > in Dr.
Anderson?s TLUD. It worked great. However, if maize or sugar
cane<BR>> > > > > stalks can be burned for fuel, why are people
not already using this fuel in<BR>> > > > > three stone fires,
or are they? I did not see this in Uganda, but I do<BR>> > >
> > not know about Haiti or elsewhere (where I will be working
soon). I<BR>> > > > > understand that a TLUD or other
stoves would do a better job of cleaning up<BR>> > > > >
emissions. -But if a person had access to free fuel in their fields, I
would<BR>> > > > > think they must have a good reason for not
burning it, even in an open fire.<BR>> > > > ><BR>> >
> > > Does the fact that it burns quicker than wood deter people
because it<BR>> > > > > requires more effort to feed it
constantly into the stove? Or does it not<BR>> > > > >
burn as cleanly as wood?<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > >
> *Consumption Rate*<BR>> > > > > Does burning fuel in a
TLUD or other stove slow down the rate at which fuel<BR>> > > >
> burns as compared with fuel burned in an open fire? It seems to me
it<BR>> > > > > would because the airflow into the fire would
be more controlled in a stove.<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > >
> > *Density*<BR>> > > > > This also brings up the
question of the density of a fuel briquette. What<BR>> > > >
> difference does density make? It seems like we pay a lot of
attention to<BR>> > > > > this, but to me it seems the only
difference is that the less dense the<BR>> > > > > briquette
the quicker it will burn. Does a less dense briquette burn hotter<BR>> >
> > > (assuming identical material is used in each
briquette)?<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > It burns
quicker but not necessarly hotter. Density is roughly equivalent<BR>> >
> > > to duration assuming same blend and stove . Greaster density
also equates<BR>> > > > > (ex any special starters) to harder
start with above assumptions also in<BR>> > > > > effect. You
'pays yer money and takes yer choice', eh ?<BR>> > > >
><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > *Briquette
Stoves*<BR>> > > > > I have recently built another RokStove or
Holey Rocket ?the side fed rocket<BR>> > > > > stove for holey
briquettes out of clay and sawdust. I made it to the best<BR>> >
> > > specifications I could come up with after considering rocket
stove<BR>> > > > > principles, which was 9? long, 15? tall, and
5? in diameter both in the<BR>> > > > > feeding area and
combustion chamber. Once the stove has been fired, these<BR>> > >
> > dimensions will have shrunk approximately 10%. This will
leave a gap<BR>> > > > > between the stove and my 4?x 2? holey
(1? hole) briquettes. I would like<BR>> > > > > to know
if anyone else has had experience in building or using these stoves<BR>>
> > > > so that we may share lessons learned. I already
speak with Rok and he?s a<BR>> > > > > great help.<BR>> >
> > ><BR>> > > > > Rok is the guy for this. He
speaks of the need to think a lot about<BR>> > > > > internal
hole size to regulate primary air volume and via my own insight<BR>> >
> > > gained through such Stoves group luminaries such as Crispin
here,<BR>> > > > > temperature...The annular space between the
OD of the briquettes and the ID<BR>> > > > > of the feed tube,
is also important.<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > >
><BR>> > > > > What other stoves have been tested and are
recommended for burning holey<BR>> > > > > briquettes? I
am assuming unless the hole is used as an air channel as in<BR>> > >
> > the RokStove, the hole in the briquette makes no difference (for
example if<BR>> > > > > the briquettes are just put in a pile,
or used in a gasifier, because<BR>> > > > > otherwise a
briquette can be broken into pieces if too large).<BR>> > > >
><BR>> > > > > Rite-e-o on that one, save the one fact that
the hole greatly acceletates<BR>> > > > > --and makes more
consistent-- the drying rate. Add too, the effect of the<BR>> > >
> > hole in burning them up right, in the three stove open burn
situation. ie.,<BR>> > > > > ex any stove surround
structure.<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>>
> > > > *Green Charcoal vs. Uncarbonized Briquettes*<BR>> >
> > > Lastly, has anyone done a study of the emissions from making
?green<BR>> > > > > charcoal?? I see what Amy Smith is
doing with the kilns to make charcoal<BR>> > > > > and the Adam
Retort and there seems to be a ton of smoke coming off the<BR>> > >
> > kilns in the process of making the charcoal. I understand it
is an<BR>> > > > > improvement from traditional charcoal
making, but I wonder if anyone has<BR>> > > > > measured the
emissions so that I can compare it to other processes.<BR>> > > >
><BR>> > > > > Shhh. you are unveiling the big secret
of the carboniser school here !!!<BR>> > > > > We don't
want to talk about the smoke and energy losses due to<BR>> > > >
> carbonisation..not as they occur in the user site and all conditions
they<BR>> > > > > live with...and after the techies have left
and the ted talks and photo op's<BR>> > > > > wither from our
memories.<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > But why
carbonise at all if you have access to the charcoal crumbs and<BR>> >
> > > fines and dust found around every charcoal sellers stall
everywhere in the<BR>> > > > > third world...? Thie waste
accounts for between 15 and 20% of the lump<BR>> > > > >
charcoal being brought into the stall and sold through it...You blend
that<BR>> > > > > amount into the briquettes and you double the
market for the seller or<BR>> > > > > proportionately reduce
their demand on charcoal while earning them the same<BR>> > > >
> income... but I'm being a bi facetious: It makes sence where there is
no<BR>> > > > > charcoal dust--I guess...<BR>> > >
> ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > Does anyone
have recommendations on what raw materials ought to be burned<BR>> >
> > > in a retort vs. crushed and made into uncarbonized briquettes?
I?m<BR>> > > > > thinking coconut shells and other hard
materials that cannot be crushed<BR>> > > > > easily, but I
would appreciate more input.<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > >
> ><BR>> > > > > Thank you all for you time.<BR>> >
> > ><BR>> > > > > Jessica De Clerck<BR>> > >
> ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> >
> > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>>
> > > > _______________________________________________<BR>>
> > > > Stoves mailing list<BR>> > > > ><BR>>
> > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<BR>> > > > > Stoves mailing list<BR>> > > >
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> > > ><BR>> > > > > for more Biomass Cooking
Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<BR>> > > >
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/<BR>> > > > >
Stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > >
> >
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> > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > >
><BR>> > > > >
_______________________________________________<BR>> > > > >
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> >
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> > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > --<BR>> > > > Boston
Nyer<BR>> > > > Graduate Student<BR>> > > > Department
of Civil, Environmental, and Architectural Engineering<BR>> > > >
University of Colorado at Boulder<BR>> > > > (585)
503-3459<BR>> > > > -------------- next part
--------------<BR>> > > > An HTML attachment was
scrubbed...<BR>> > > > URL:
<http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110120/5a3eb015/attachment-0001.html><BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > ------------------------------<BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > Message: 2<BR>> > > > Date:
Thu, 20 Jan 2011 15:57:32 -0500<BR>> > > > From: "Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott@gmail.com><BR>> > > > To:
"'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"<BR>> > >
>
<stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><BR>> > > > Subject: Re:
[Stoves] (no subject)<BR>> > > > Message-ID:
<071901cbb8e4$a9569870$fc03c950$@gmail.com><BR>> > > >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<BR>> > > ><BR>>
> > > Dear Boston<BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Can you send me some
jatropha seed cake?<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> >
> ><BR>> > > > In fact, where are you? If it is more
convenient, you can send it to SeTAR<BR>> > > > in Johannesburg
and I will deal with it there.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > It is hard to believe there
is no easy way to burn it.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Thanks<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > > Crispin<BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > >
From: stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>> > > >
[mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Boston
Nyer<BR>> > > > Sent: 20 January 2011 15:39<BR>> > > >
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<BR>> > > > Subject: Re:
[Stoves] (no subject)<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > Hi Richard,<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > I
have a related question to this discussion, which I think is
interesting.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
><BR>> > > > At CU, we have a Jatropha project that you fielded
some questions about a<BR>> > > > few months ago. As I'm
sure you've heard, Jatropha seedcake does not burn<BR>> > > >
well, not even close. So, one of our questions now is: what can we
do with<BR>> > > > this waste stream this is both useful and
desirable?<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
><BR>> > > > One approach we will test is to carbonize the
material and for biochar<BR>> > > > briquettes (and a water filter
media, etc.). However, I wholeheartedly<BR>> > > > agree
with your sentiment on biochar briquettes. What is your opinion
if<BR>> > > > the ag-waste doesn't burn well normally? It
still seems a bit contrived,<BR>> > > > eh?<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > I'm
looking forward to hearing your perspective.<BR>> > > ><BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Cheers,<BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > Boston<BR>> > > ><BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > >
-------------- next part --------------<BR>> > > > An HTML
attachment was scrubbed...<BR>> > > > URL:
<http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110120/370fba99/attachment-0001.html><BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > ------------------------------<BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > Message: 3<BR>> > > > Date:
Thu, 20 Jan 2011 14:27:15 -0800<BR>> > > > From: Richard Stanley
<rstanley@legacyfound.org><BR>> > > > To: Boston Nyer
<bostonnyer@gmail.com><BR>> > > > Cc: Discussion of biomass
cooking stoves<BR>> > >
>
<stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><BR>> > > > Subject: Re:
[Stoves] jatropa does not burn well for us ....but it<BR>> > >
>
probably has for others,
somewhere<BR>> > > > Message-ID:
<B837756A-A940-4153-B144-74915BDED64E@legacyfound.org><BR>> > >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > > Boston,<BR>> > > > I would toss this
question out to the combustion experts on the stoves and biomass
lists...here.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > I have not tried
it out but I know that others must have by now. The idea is to get behind the
reason for poor combustion Crispin if I have him correctly implies that there
is no poor biomass fuel, only poor stoves...Thats one avenue which the
stoves group is particularly good at.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
> The larger question is: What is missing by this process: What is missing
is the 90% of the rest of us in the inquiry. I'm referring to the faceless
bystanders you see as CNN rushes to its big story in the so called developing
world.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > People have been sorting
undesired elements out of biomass for as long as we have had fire--
probably before that: Indeed the fire must have excused lots of pre
processing. Bio-matter has been is
washed/soaked/dried/winnowed/beaten/buried/ and blended for specific culinary
or health applications for centuries...<BR>> > > > That we notice
one kind of biomass which burns badly and therefore has to be especially
processed lest it not pass the test of our western intellectual
inquiry-- is not necessarily a definitive test of its potential suitability at
all. It merely reflects the fact that the "we" are probably in need of
going out amongst the rest of us to find out, the why, how and the
what--- the rest of us have been doing...<BR>> > > > It may
be that no one has ever successfully burned jatropa...but, personally, I
would not bet on it.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>>
> > > If you like coffee, take a read of this example. The Inca's had
perfected a simple method of soaking the roasted ground beans in cold water
then draining off the liquid after a certain time period (~12 hrs) to
separate out the oil and acid from the real coffee "caffeol" element. The oil
and acid remained bound to the roasted grounds, while the pure coffee
element nicely disburses into the water as a concentrate--for use with then
Hot water or cold to make a really good cuppa java! Even the cheap sawdust the
discount houses offer as coffee grounds will make a really good cup (Starbucks
beware).<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > The Incas may have
evolved this procedure for coffeemaking, more out of necessity than for the
inherent pursuit of the perfect cuppa joe, because in the altiplano at
least, they lived on- or above- tree line ~9,500 ft where fuelwood consumption
for cooking is about 3 X greater than at the more common sea level to say 4000
ft elevations.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > The result
was however, that the resulting coffee came out with far less oil and acid
with greatly reduced chance of the associated stomach and heart burn (which we
try to mask with sugar and cream nowadays).<BR>> > > ><BR>>
> > > The incas mastered this process several hundred
years ago, well before the process was "discovered" by two young scientists
from xyz university en el norte, as the story goes, "working in their
garage, etc., etc"... You can read about the new cold brew process at (
www.toddycafe.com ) but if you ever venture into a coffee shop in Cusco Peru,
you may find small cups of concentrated liquid coffee made by the same
process. It was well established before I ever set foot in the altiplano
of Peru, ten years ago.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > >
Sure it has since been analysed, packaged and widely sold in the states
now--we are very good at that part--but in all honesty it began far before we
even set eyes upon the notion..<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > >
The point of this digression is this: I have little doubt that if you
were to venture out into the jatropa-using world (not just the development
project world or institutional research world) but the
user-on-the-ground world, you will probably discover how somebody somewhere
has figured out a way to process it as fuel...<BR>> > > ><BR>>
> > > The ideal is to do this and to frame your scientific
investigations at the same time: to run the "field" investigation in parallel
and collaboratively with the lab analysis. Then you get not only the best of
both worlds as information and data sources: You form a link to-- and directly
or indirectly- help to empower those who can not only benefit from the
results but who can become teachers of others for the future.<BR>> >
> ><BR>> > > > Then publish it with all your collaborrants,
for the rest of us. It will be a great contribution !<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > > Pressing on,<BR>> > > ><BR>> >
> > Richard Stanley<BR>> > > > www.legacyfound.org<BR>>
> > > Ashland Or.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > >
--------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>
> > > On Jan 20, 2011, at 12:39 PM, Boston Nyer wrote:<BR>> >
> ><BR>> > > > > Hi Richard,<BR>> > > >
><BR>> > > > > I have a related question to this discussion,
which I think is interesting.<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > >
> > At CU, we have a Jatropha project that you fielded some questions
about a few months ago. As I'm sure you've heard, Jatropha seedcake does
not burn well, not even close. So, one of our questions now is:
what can we do with this waste stream this is both useful and
desirable?<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > One
approach we will test is to carbonize the material and for biochar briquettes
(and a water filter media, etc.). However, I wholeheartedly agree with
your sentiment on biochar briquettes. What is your opinion if the
ag-waste doesn't burn well normally? It still seems a bit contrived,
eh?<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > I'm looking
forward to hearing your perspective.<BR>> > > > ><BR>> >
> > > Cheers,<BR>> > > > > Boston<BR>> > >
> ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> >
> > ><BR>> > > > > On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 2:13 PM,
Richard Stanley <rstanley@legacyfound.org> wrote:<BR>> > > >
> Jessica,<BR>> > > > > Me again, I answered some of
these questions to you in a post directly to you (as that one came
directly from you) --a few minutes ago, but<BR>> > > > > let me
add a few comments in reponse to your other questions here...( am responding
in-kind below...)<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > On
Jan 13, 2011, at 12:33 PM, Jessica De Clerck wrote:<BR>> > > >
><BR>> > > > >> Hello,<BR>> > > >
>><BR>> > > > >> I am looking for some insight into an
array of issues around fuel briquettes and stoves. I apologize for the
long list! I am hoping Crispin, Dr. TLUD, Richard and others can answer
some of these.<BR>> > > > >><BR>> > > > >>
Burning Stalks<BR>> > > > >> At Stove Camp 2010, we used
TLUDs to burn what I recall were maize stalks in Dr. Anderson?s TLUD. It
worked great. However, if maize or sugar cane stalks can be burned for
fuel, why are people not already using this fuel in three stone fires, or are
they? I did not see this in Uganda, but I do not know about Haiti or
elsewhere (where I will be working soon). I understand that a TLUD or
other stoves would do a better job of cleaning up emissions. -But if a person
had access to free fuel in their fields, I would think they must have a good
reason for not burning it, even in an open fire.<BR>> > > >
>><BR>> > > > >> Does the fact that it burns quicker
than wood deter people because it requires more effort to feed it constantly
into the stove? Or does it not burn as cleanly as wood?<BR>> >
> > >><BR>> > > > >> Consumption Rate<BR>>
> > > >> Does burning fuel in a TLUD or other stove slow down
the rate at which fuel burns as compared with fuel burned in an open
fire? It seems to me it would because the airflow into the fire would be
more controlled in a stove.<BR>> > > > >><BR>> > >
> >> Density<BR>> > > > >> This also brings up the
question of the density of a fuel briquette. What difference does
density make? It seems like we pay a lot of attention to this, but to me
it seems the only difference is that the less dense the briquette the quicker
it will burn. Does a less dense briquette burn hotter (assuming identical
material is used in each briquette)?<BR>> > > > > It burns
quicker but not necessarly hotter. Density is roughly equivalent to duration
assuming same blend and stove . Greaster density also equates (ex any special
starters) to harder start with above assumptions also in effect. You 'pays yer
money and takes yer choice', eh ?<BR>> > > > ><BR>> >
> > >><BR>> > > > >> Briquette Stoves<BR>>
> > > >> I have recently built another RokStove or Holey Rocket
?the side fed rocket stove for holey briquettes out of clay and sawdust.
I made it to the best specifications I could come up with after considering
rocket stove principles, which was 9? long, 15? tall, and 5? in diameter both
in the feeding area and combustion chamber. Once the stove has been fired,
these dimensions will have shrunk approximately 10%. This will
leave a gap between the stove and my 4?x 2? holey (1? hole) briquettes.
I would like to know if anyone else has had experience in building or using
these stoves so that we may share lessons learned. I already speak with
Rok and he?s a great help.<BR>> > > > > Rok is the guy
for this. He speaks of the need to think a lot about internal hole size to
regulate primary air volume and via my own insight gained through such Stoves
group luminaries such as Crispin here, temperature...The annular space between
the OD of the briquettes and the ID of the feed tube, is also
important.<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > >><BR>>
> > > >> What other stoves have been tested and are recommended
for burning holey briquettes? I am assuming unless the hole is used as
an air channel as in the RokStove, the hole in the briquette makes no
difference (for example if the briquettes are just put in a pile, or used in a
gasifier, because otherwise a briquette can be broken into pieces if too
large).<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > Rite-e-o on
that one, save the one fact that the hole greatly acceletates --and makes more
consistent-- the drying rate. Add too, the effect of the hole in burning them
up right, in the three stove open burn situation. ie., ex any stove surround
structure.<BR>> > > > >><BR>> > > > >>
Green Charcoal vs. Uncarbonized Briquettes<BR>> > > > >>
Lastly, has anyone done a study of the emissions from making ?green
charcoal?? I see what Amy Smith is doing with the kilns to make charcoal
and the Adam Retort and there seems to be a ton of smoke coming off the kilns
in the process of making the charcoal. I understand it is an improvement
from traditional charcoal making, but I wonder if anyone has measured the
emissions so that I can compare it to other processes.<BR>> > > >
> Shhh. you are unveiling the big secret of the carboniser
school here !!! We don't want to talk about the smoke and energy losses
due to carbonisation..not as they occur in the user site and all conditions
they live with...and after the techies have left and the ted talks and photo
op's wither from our memories.<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > >
> > But why carbonise at all if you have access to the charcoal crumbs
and fines and dust found around every charcoal sellers stall everywhere in the
third world...? Thie waste accounts for between 15 and 20% of the lump
charcoal being brought into the stall and sold through it...You blend that
amount into the briquettes and you double the market for the seller or
proportionately reduce their demand on charcoal while earning them the same
income... but I'm being a bi facetious: It makes sence where there is no
charcoal dust--I guess...<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > >
>><BR>> > > > >> Does anyone have recommendations on
what raw materials ought to be burned in a retort vs. crushed and made into
uncarbonized briquettes? I?m thinking coconut shells and other hard materials
that cannot be crushed easily, but I would appreciate more input.<BR>> >
> > >><BR>> > > > >> Thank you all for you
time.<BR>> > > > >><BR>> > > > >> Jessica
De Clerck<BR>> > > > >><BR>> > > >
>><BR>> > > > >><BR>> > > >
>><BR>> > > > >><BR>> > > >
>><BR>> > > > >>
_______________________________________________<BR>> > > >
>> Stoves mailing list<BR>> > > > >><BR>> > >
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<BR>>
> > > >> Stoves mailing list<BR>> > > >
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Settings use the web page<BR>> > > > >>
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> > > >><BR>> > > > >> for more Biomass
Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<BR>> > >
> >> http://www.bioenergylists.org/<BR>> > > > >>
Stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>> > > > >>
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>>
> > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > >
_______________________________________________<BR>> > > > >
Stoves mailing list<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > to
Send a Message to the list, use the email address<BR>> > > > >
Stoves mailing list<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > to
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> >
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> > > ><BR>> > > > > for more Biomass Cooking
Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<BR>> > > >
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/<BR>> > > > >
Stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>> > > > >
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>>
> > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > >
><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > --<BR>> >
> > > Boston Nyer<BR>> > > > > Graduate
Student<BR>> > > > > Department of Civil, Environmental, and
Architectural Engineering<BR>> > > > > University of Colorado
at Boulder<BR>> > > > > (585) 503-3459<BR>> > > >
> _______________________________________________<BR>> > > >
> Stoves mailing list<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > >
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<BR>> > >
> > Stoves mailing list<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<BR>>
> > > >
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>>
> > > ><BR>> > > > > for more Biomass Cooking
Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<BR>> > > >
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/<BR>> > > > >
Stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>> > > > >
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > -------------- next part
--------------<BR>> > > > An HTML attachment was
scrubbed...<BR>> > > > URL:
<http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110120/fc479099/attachment-0001.html><BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > ------------------------------<BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > Message: 4<BR>> > > > Date:
Wed, 19 Jan 2011 17:44:40 -0800<BR>> > > > From: seb
<sbentson@aprovecho.org><BR>> > > > To:
stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>> > > > Subject: Re: [Stoves]
Testing and Development Laboratories<BR>> > > > Message-ID:
<1295487880.8995.15.camel@seb-laptop><BR>> > > >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"<BR>> > > ><BR>> >
> > Tom,<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Aprovecho
specializes in setting up regional testing centers. The<BR>> > > >
equipment and personnel your lab needs depends on what you want to do.<BR>>
> > > Two broad categories are the stove's emissions and fuel
performance. You<BR>> > > > could also focus on fuel production
alone.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Much of what is learned
comes from taking the time to carefully carry<BR>> > > > out tests
and record in an objective way what is observed. Observation<BR>> > >
> is more important than discovery or success.<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > > Sam<BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
><BR>> > > > > > From: Tom Miles
<tmiles@trmiles.com><BR>> > > > > > Date: Wed, 19 Jan
2011 12:53:26 -0800<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > > >
What would labs need funding support for? Equipment? Personnel?<BR>> >
> > > > Conducting tests, design and development? Or all of
these?<BR>> > > > > ><BR>> > > > >
><BR>> > > > > ><BR>> > > > > >
Tom<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > >
------------------------------<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > >
Message: 5<BR>> > > > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 19:30:55
-0500<BR>> > > > From: Jonathan Otto
<ottojonathan@hotmail.com><BR>> > > > To:
<stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><BR>> > > > Subject: Re:
[Stoves] jatropa does not burn well for us ....but it<BR>> > >
> probably has for others,
somewhere<BR>> > > > Message-ID:
<SNT137-w3155F72E2F547F8142AEFDD6F80@phx.gbl><BR>> > > >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>> > > ><BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > Not sure where this fits into the stream
of 19 simultaneous subjects, but here goes:<BR>> > > ><BR>>
> > > We have a natural draft TLUD developed specifically to combust
whole Jatropha seeds -- quite a challenge given the intense energy in those
long chain hydrocarbons.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > For
years we assumed since the main energy was in the seeds' oil, that we needed
to remove it first and make a liquid fuel stove. Not true.<BR>> >
> ><BR>> > > > Paul Anderson and the other heavies at
Biomass Energy Foundation showed us solid fuel vaporization technology
at CHAB Camp last August, and 6 months later we're planning on field testing
in Tanzania in March, and if all goes well ( a huge caveat to be sure) we'll
be in production shortly thereafter.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
> Very low emissions ... 18% biochar ... Home grown fuel from hedges
around fields and farmsteads ... cost less than 50% of the price of
charcoal.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Jonathan Otto<BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > -------------- next part
--------------<BR>> > > > An HTML attachment was
scrubbed...<BR>> > > > URL:
<http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110120/2fe641cb/attachment-0001.html><BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > ------------------------------<BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > Message: 6<BR>> > > > Date:
Thu, 20 Jan 2011 19:37:27 -0600<BR>> > > > From: "Paul S.
Anderson" <psanders@ilstu.edu><BR>> > > > To: Discussion of
biomass cooking stoves<BR>> > >
>
<stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org>, Richard
Stanley<BR>> > > >
<rstanley@legacyfound.org>, "davidpotto@gmail.com"<BR>> > >
>
<davidpotto@gmail.com>, Jonathan Otto
<ottojonathan@hotmail.com><BR>> > > > Cc: Discussion, stoves
<stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><BR>> > > > Subject: Re:
[Stoves] jatropha does not burn well for us ....but it<BR>> > >
>
probably has for others,
somewhere<BR>> > > > Message-ID:<BR>> > >
>
<20110120193727.664826cqk3djuyxw@redbirdmail.illinoisstate.edu><BR>>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
DelSp="Yes";<BR>> > >
> format="flowed"<BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > Dear Boston and all,<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > > I hope you can come to ETHOS meeting next weekend
28-30 Jan in Seattle<BR>> > > > and see the Jatropha-seed stove
that will be discussed in a<BR>> > > > presentation and fired up
at the stove demo. It is by "Jet City<BR>> > > > Stoveworks"
(JCSW) (Seattle is Jet City) and "Pamoja" (NGO working in<BR>> > >
> Tanzania). I have worked with them on this stove.<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > > The answer is yes, jatropha can be burned cleanly
in stoves. but<BR>> > > > there are challenges.<BR>> >
> ><BR>> > > > You and CU (Colorado Univ.?) and others with
Jatropha efforts could<BR>> > > > fit in well with additional work
on burning jatropha. Pamoja and JCSW<BR>> > > > and I
(independently or together) would be glad to collaborate.<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > > There could be several ways to handle jatropha as
a stove fuel. We<BR>> > > > are working (successfully) with
one, which is to use the TLUD<BR>> > > > combustion
technology. In brief, because the top-lit updraft (TLUD)<BR>> >
> > functions with a decending pyrolysis front that is quite well
behaved<BR>> > > > and uniform, the flaming pyrolysis (limited
oxygen present) provides<BR>> > > > heat that vaporizes the
jatropha oils, releasing them as gases along<BR>> > > > with the
pyrolysis gases. The challenge is in the combustion of so<BR>> >
> > much gas and that type of gas (probably longer-chain
hydrocarbons).<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > To handle the
jatropha press cake, pelletizing or briquetting is<BR>> > > >
probably the best option. And the press cake could be mixed with
some<BR>> > > > other biomass. Loose presscake alone would
block the needed air flow<BR>> > > > in the TLUD.<BR>> >
> ><BR>> > > > I will leave the details of the Pamoja/JCSW
to them to present 9 days<BR>> > > > from now. Then we could
get into the real details.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > >
Request: Do you (at CU) or anyone else have any supply of
natural<BR>> > > > (not pressed) jatropha seeds? JCSW
and I are looking for some kilos.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
> --<BR>> > > > Paul S. Anderson, PhD<BR>> > > >
Known to some as: Dr. TLUD Doc
Professor<BR>> > > > Phone (USA): 309-452-7072 SKYPE:
paultlud Email: psanders@ilstu.edu<BR>> > > ><BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > Quoting Richard Stanley
<rstanley@legacyfound.org>: -- snipped --<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > > > Boston,<BR>> > > > > I would
toss this question out to the combustion experts on the<BR>> > > >
> stoves and biomass lists...here.<BR>> > > > ><BR>> >
> > > I have not tried it out but I know that others must have by
now. The<BR>> > > > > idea is to get behind the reason for poor
combustion Crispin if I<BR>> > > > > have him correctly implies
that there is no poor biomass fuel, only<BR>> > > > >
poor stoves...Thats one avenue which the stoves group is<BR>> > >
> > particularly good at.<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > >
> > It may be that no one has ever successfully burned
jatropa...but,<BR>> > > > > personally, I would not bet
on it.<BR>> > > > > snipped The point
of this digression is this: I have little<BR>> > > > >
doubt that if you were to venture out into the jatropa-using world<BR>>
> > > > (not just the development project world or institutional
research<BR>> > > > > world) but the user-on-the-ground
world, you will probably discover<BR>> > > > > how somebody
somewhere has figured out a way to process it as fuel...<BR>> > >
> ><BR>> > > > > The ideal is to do this and to frame
your scientific investigations<BR>> > > > > at the same time:
to run the "field" investigation in parallel and<BR>> > > > >
collaboratively with the lab analysis. Then you get not only the<BR>> >
> > > best of both worlds as information and data sources: You form a
link<BR>> > > > > to-- and directly or indirectly- help to
empower those who can not<BR>> > > > > only benefit from
the results but who can become teachers of others<BR>> > > > >
for the future.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > NOTE by
PSA: This is what Pamoja is doing.<BR>> > > > ><BR>>
> > > > Then publish it with all your collaborrants, for the rest
of us. It<BR>> > > > > will be a great contribution !<BR>>
> > > ><BR>> > > > > Pressing on,<BR>> > >
> ><BR>> > > > > Richard Stanley<BR>> > > >
> www.legacyfound.org<BR>> > > > > Ashland Or.<BR>> >
> > ><BR>> > > > >
--------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>
> > > > On Jan 20, 2011, at 12:39 PM, Boston Nyer wrote:<BR>>
> > > ><BR>> > > > >> Hi Richard,<BR>> >
> > >><BR>> > > > >> I have a related question
to this discussion, which I think is interesting.<BR>> > > >
>><BR>> > > > >> At CU, we have a Jatropha project
that you fielded some questions<BR>> > > > >> about a few
months ago. As I'm sure you've heard, Jatropha<BR>> > > >
>> seedcake does not burn well, not even close. So, one of
our<BR>> > > > >> questions now is: what can we do
with this waste stream this is<BR>> > > > >> both useful and
desirable?<BR>> > > > >><BR>> > > > >> One
approach we will test is to carbonize the material and for<BR>> > >
> >> biochar briquettes (and a water filter media, etc.).
However, I<BR>> > > > >> wholeheartedly agree with your
sentiment on biochar briquettes.<BR>> > > > >> What is your
opinion if the ag-waste doesn't burn well normally?<BR>> > > >
>> It still seems a bit contrived, eh?<BR>> > > >
>><BR>> > > > >> I'm looking forward to hearing your
perspective.<BR>> > > > >><BR>> > > > >>
Cheers,<BR>> > > > >> Boston<BR>> > > >
>><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > >
----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>> >
> > This message was sent using Illinois State University
RedbirdMail<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > >
------------------------------<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > >
Message: 7<BR>> > > > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 20:00:06
-0600<BR>> > > > From: "Paul S. Anderson"
<psanders@ilstu.edu><BR>> > > > To: Discussion of biomass
cooking stoves<BR>> > >
>
<stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org>,
Jonathan Otto<BR>> > >
>
<ottojonathan@hotmail.com><BR>> > > > Cc: ETHOS - Listserve
<ethos@vrac.iastate.edu>,<BR>> > >
>
stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>> > > > Subject: [Stoves]
Jatropha seeds wanted in USA - can you bring to<BR>> > >
> ETHOS?<BR>> > >
> Message-ID:<BR>> > >
>
<20110120200006.14573vaecow0c90g@redbirdmail.illinoisstate.edu><BR>>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
DelSp="Yes";<BR>> > >
> format="flowed"<BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > Stovers and ETHOS persons,<BR>> >
> ><BR>> > > > Please contact me or Jonathan Otto if you
have some jatropha seeds<BR>> > > > already in North
America,<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > OR<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > > If you are coming to ETHOS (or on any trip to
America) from a place<BR>> > > > where jatropha is growing, and
would bring some kilos in your luggage.<BR>> > > ><BR>> >
> > We need the seeds for continuing tests of their combustion.<BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > It is legal to bring jatropha seeds into
America (clean -- no dirt on<BR>> > > > them --) and declare them
at customs entry point. Tell the<BR>> > > > agricultural
inspectors what they are and tell them that they will be<BR>> > >
> burned. Several of us have done this already without any
difficulty,<BR>> > > > but we need travellers to bring more
seeds.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Once in North America, we
can send them by postal service to the<BR>> > > > location of the
research. Or bring them to ETHOS in Seattle next<BR>> > > >
week, and we will take care of them from that point onward.<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > > Thanks,<BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
> --<BR>> > > > Paul S. Anderson, PhD<BR>> > > >
Known to some as: Dr. TLUD Doc
Professor<BR>> > > > Phone (USA): 309-452-7072 SKYPE:
paultlud Email: psanders@ilstu.edu<BR>> > > ><BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > >
----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>> >
> > This message was sent using Illinois State University
RedbirdMail<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > >
------------------------------<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > >
Message: 8<BR>> > > > Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 09:07:15 +0100
(MET)<BR>> > > > From: Otto Formo
<formo-o@online.no><BR>> > > > To: Frank Shields
<frank@compostlab.com>, Discussion
of biomass<BR>> > >
> cooking stoves
<stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><BR>> > > > Subject: Re:
[Stoves] Testing and Development Laboratories<BR>> > > >
Message-ID:<BR>> > >
>
<29547223.998.1295597235656.JavaMail.adm-moff@moffice2.nsc.no><BR>>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>> >
> ><BR>> > > > Dear Frank,<BR>> > > > I very
much agree with you.<BR>> > > > Tests according to protocol should
be run by certified and indepemdent labs and you should compare - apples to
apples, not like it is to day.<BR>> > > > The independent aspect
is the most important one, either you produce stoves and let others do the
testing or you do the testing as an independent reserach center and let others
produce the stoves.<BR>> > > > Internal testing should of cource
continue, but to be "approved" by the GACC, tests should be done by
independent research centres world wide.<BR>> > > > That should be
the one and only way forward.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > >
Iam about to contact SINTEF, Norwegian Institute of Technology, Department of
Mechanical Engineering, Thermal Energy Division in Norway about these issues,
right now.<BR>> > > > Otto<BR>> > > ><BR>> >
> > > From: Frank Shields [frank@compostlab.com]<BR>> > >
> > Sent: 2011-01-20 19:04:44 MET<BR>> > > > > To:
Discussion of biomass cooking stoves [stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org]<BR>>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Testing and Development
Laboratories<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > Tom,
Crispin and Stovers,<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > >
But first we need to get organized. Common testing protocol run by<BR>>
> > > > certified labs -so apples to apples. This takes an
organization and<BR>> > > > > money to put it all together.
Otherwise we get nowhere as I see it.<BR>> > > > > Having a
list of all the labs working on stoves is a -great- start.<BR>> > >
> > Getting the labs to send SOP's to a central organization that wants
to<BR>> > > > > take on organization the QC program may be a
second. Publish the<BR>> > > > > collection of SOP's for
distribution for comment could be a third. Then<BR>> > > > >
picking ones for all labs to use a fourth. Organizing a protocol to<BR>>
> > > > update, add to, remove test methods a fifth. Something
like that.<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > Otherwise
Crispins work helps him develop his stoves and Aprovecho<BR>> > >
> > methods help them better their stoves - but Crispins data cannot
be<BR>> > > > > compared to the data Aprovecho produces and the
stoves they both produce<BR>> > > > > cannot be compared to
each other until the same protocol is used and an<BR>> > > > >
independent certified lab does the testing.<BR>> > > >
><BR>> > > > > Regards<BR>> > > > >
Frank<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> >
> > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>>
> > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > >
><BR>> > > > > Tom Miles wrote:<BR>> > > >
><BR>> > > > > > Crispin,<BR>> > > > >
><BR>> > > > > > Good examples and great ideas.<BR>>
> > > > ><BR>> > > > > > Thanks<BR>> >
> > > ><BR>> > > > > > Tom<BR>> > >
> > ><BR>> > > > > > *From:*
stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>> > > > > >
[mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] *On Behalf Of<BR>> >
> > > > *Crispin Pemberton-Pigott<BR>> > > > > >
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2011 2:01 PM<BR>> > > > > >
*To:* 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'<BR>> > > > > >
*Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Testing and Development Laboratories<BR>> > >
> > ><BR>> > > > > > Dear Tom<BR>> > >
> > ><BR>> > > > > > We need a bigger testing
footprint. Many many stove are promoted<BR>> > > > > >
without people have a real clue as to their fuel saving or emissions<BR>>
> > > > > profile and the reason is primarily no access to any
testing or the<BR>> > > > > > testing was not relevant, not
even to mention its accuracy.<BR>> > > > > ><BR>> >
> > > >>The reason for asking is that one way to stimulate
stove improvement<BR>> > > > > > might be enable producers
to access and get support from labs.<BR>> > > > > ><BR>>
> > > > > I believe the progress made by John Davies, on his
own, was in good<BR>> > > > > > measure because real time
testing could show him what was and was not<BR>> > > > > >
better, sifting through his hunches about how things should work.<BR>> >
> > > > Maybe he can support that. It certainly helped me. I was
stuck in<BR>> > > > > > ?visual land? until I was handed a
small combustion analyser.<BR>> > > > > ><BR>> > >
> > >>I have seen situations where a design gets "stuck" without
being<BR>> > > > > > further developed due to lack of
technical support.<BR>> > > > > ><BR>> > > >
> > That support is the sort of thing you get at the SEET lab: bring it
I,<BR>> > > > > > make it perform, we will let you know what
we think would make it<BR>> > > > > > better, then
demonstrate it to convince you. Emissions reductions by a<BR>> > >
> > > factor of 10 are routine with this method.<BR>> > >
> > ><BR>> > > > > >>Organizations involved in
production and dissemination often don't<BR>> > > > > > have
the appropriate resources.<BR>> > > > > ><BR>> > >
> > > It is a good use of Global Alliance funds because perhaps 100
new<BR>> > > > > > products are needed.<BR>> > >
> > ><BR>> > > > > >>What would labs need
funding support for? Equipment? Personnel?<BR>> > > > > >
Conducting tests, design and development? Or all of these?<BR>> > >
> > ><BR>> > > > > > All those and post-grads. I
have been trying to get 5 physics students<BR>> > > > > >
into the SEET lab for more than a year with no success. No one will<BR>>
> > > > > look ahead 5 years to the time when we need a new
coterie of people<BR>> > > > > > skilled at testing and
familiar with the issues of standard setting<BR>> > > > > >
and certification (implying legislation and inspection).<BR>> > >
> > ><BR>> > > > > > Design and Development has to
be backed up by access to real time<BR>> > > > > > emissions
and thermal efficiency testing. The task-based approach<BR>> > > >
> > often used till now hides too many thing and can waste a great deal
of<BR>> > > > > > effort.<BR>> > > > >
><BR>> > > > > > Take a look at the attached charts.
There is only one small difference<BR>> > > > > > between
these two tests (same stove) something detected in a real time<BR>> >
> > > > examination of the emissions.<BR>> > > > >
><BR>> > > > > > Regards<BR>> > > > >
><BR>> > > > > > Crispin<BR>> > > > >
><BR>> > > > >
>------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>
> > > > ><BR>> > > > >
>_______________________________________________<BR>> > > >
> >Stoves mailing list<BR>> > > > > ><BR>> >
> > > >to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<BR>> > > > > >Stoves mailing list<BR>> > >
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List Settings use the web page<BR>> > > > >
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> > > > ><BR>> > > > > >for more Biomass
Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<BR>> > >
> > >http://www.bioenergylists.org/<BR>> > > > >
>Stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>> > > > >
>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>>
> > > > ><BR>> > > > > ><BR>> > >
> ><BR>> > > > >
_______________________________________________<BR>> > > > >
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Send a Message to the list, use the email address<BR>> > > > >
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> >
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>>
> > > ><BR>> > > > > for more Biomass Cooking
Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<BR>> > > >
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/<BR>> > > > >
Stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>> > > > >
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>>
> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > >
------------------------------<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > >
Message: 9<BR>> > > > Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 02:37:47
-0700<BR>> > > > From: Boston Nyer
<bostonnyer@gmail.com><BR>> > > > To: "Paul S. Anderson"
<psanders@ilstu.edu><BR>> > > > Cc: "davidpotto@gmail.com"
<davidpotto@gmail.com>, Kristen
Matsumura<BR>> > >
>
<kristen.matsumura@gmail.com>, Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves<BR>> > > >
<stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><BR>> > > > Subject: Re:
[Stoves] jatropha does not burn well for us ....but it<BR>> > >
> probably has for others,
somewhere<BR>> > > > Message-ID:<BR>> > >
>
<AANLkTik8eHSAs4OyJSFN25E59gi6dB=BU1=7zsha_OQd@mail.gmail.com><BR>>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>> >
> ><BR>> > > > Dr. Anderson,<BR>> > > ><BR>>
> > > I know that the University of Florida - Lee County Extension
Services -<BR>> > > > Agriculture and Natural Resources has plenty
of Jatropha seeds. They<BR>> > > > offered to send us some a
few months back. You can inquire with Fitzroy<BR>> > > >
Beckford (fbeckford@leegov.com) or Martha Avila (MAvila@leegov.com).<BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > I'm excited to hear more about your TLUD
that runs on Jatropha seeds.<BR>> > > > Unfortunately, I'm
in Bangladesh and won't be able to attend ETHOS.<BR>> > > >
However, Kristen Matsumura (cc-ed) is also working on the Jatropha
research<BR>> > > > at CU and will be there.<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > > I look forward to hearing more about it.<BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > Cheers,<BR>> > > >
Boston<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at
6:37 PM, Paul S. Anderson <psanders@ilstu.edu>wrote:<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > > > Dear Boston and all,<BR>> > > >
><BR>> > > > > I hope you can come to ETHOS meeting next
weekend 28-30 Jan in Seattle and<BR>> > > > > see the
Jatropha-seed stove that will be discussed in a presentation and<BR>> >
> > > fired up at the stove demo. It is by "Jet City
Stoveworks" (JCSW) (Seattle<BR>> > > > > is Jet City) and
"Pamoja" (NGO working in Tanzania). I have worked with<BR>> > >
> > them on this stove.<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > >
> > The answer is yes, jatropha can be burned cleanly in stoves.
but there are<BR>> > > > > challenges.<BR>> > > >
><BR>> > > > > You and CU (Colorado Univ.?) and others with
Jatropha efforts could fit in<BR>> > > > > well with additional
work on burning jatropha. Pamoja and JCSW and I<BR>> > > >
> (independently or together) would be glad to collaborate.<BR>> >
> > ><BR>> > > > > There could be several ways to
handle jatropha as a stove fuel. We are<BR>> > > > >
working (successfully) with one, which is to use the TLUD combustion<BR>>
> > > > technology. In brief, because the top-lit updraft
(TLUD) functions with a<BR>> > > > > decending pyrolysis front
that is quite well behaved and uniform, the<BR>> > > > >
flaming pyrolysis (limited oxygen present) provides heat that vaporizes
the<BR>> > > > > jatropha oils, releasing them as gases along
with the pyrolysis gases. The<BR>> > > > > challenge is
in the combustion of so much gas and that type of gas (probably<BR>> >
> > > longer-chain hydrocarbons).<BR>> > > > ><BR>>
> > > > To handle the jatropha press cake, pelletizing or
briquetting is probably<BR>> > > > > the best option. And
the press cake could be mixed with some other biomass.<BR>> > > >
> Loose presscake alone would block the needed air flow in the
TLUD.<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > I will leave the
details of the Pamoja/JCSW to them to present 9 days from<BR>> > >
> > now. Then we could get into the real details.<BR>> >
> > ><BR>> > > > > Request: Do you (at CU) or
anyone else have any supply of natural (not<BR>> > > > >
pressed) jatropha seeds? JCSW and I are looking for some
kilos.<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > --<BR>> >
> > > Paul S. Anderson, PhD<BR>> > > > > Known to some
as: Dr. TLUD Doc Professor<BR>>
> > > > Phone (USA): 309-452-7072 SKYPE:
paultlud Email: psanders@ilstu.edu<BR>> > > >
><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > Quoting Richard
Stanley <rstanley@legacyfound.org>: -- snipped --<BR>>
> > > ><BR>> > > > > Boston,<BR>> >
> > >> I would toss this question out to the combustion experts on
the stoves and<BR>> > > > >> biomass lists...here.<BR>>
> > > >><BR>> > > > >> I have not tried it
out but I know that others must have by now. The idea<BR>> > > >
>> is to get behind the reason for poor combustion Crispin if I have
him<BR>> > > > >> correctly implies that there is no
poor biomass fuel, only poor<BR>> > > > >> stoves...Thats
one avenue which the stoves group is particularly good at.<BR>> > >
> >><BR>> > > > >> It may be that no one has ever
successfully burned jatropa...but,<BR>> > > > >>
personally, I would not bet on it.<BR>> > > > >>
snipped The point of this digression is this: I have little
doubt that<BR>> > > > >> if you were to venture out into the
jatropa-using world (not just the<BR>> > > > >> development
project world or institutional research world) but the<BR>> > >
> >> user-on-the-ground world, you will probably discover how
somebody somewhere<BR>> > > > >> has figured out a way to
process it as fuel...<BR>> > > > >><BR>> > > >
>> The ideal is to do this and to frame your scientific investigations
at the<BR>> > > > >> same time: to run the "field"
investigation in parallel and collaboratively<BR>> > > > >>
with the lab analysis. Then you get not only the best of both worlds
as<BR>> > > > >> information and data sources: You form a
link to-- and directly or<BR>> > > > >> indirectly- help to
empower those who can not only benefit from the results<BR>> >
> > >> but who can become teachers of others for the
future.<BR>> > > > >><BR>> > > > ><BR>>
> > > > NOTE by PSA: This is what Pamoja is doing.<BR>>
> > > ><BR>> > > > >><BR>> > > >
>> Then publish it with all your collaborrants, for the rest of us.
It will<BR>> > > > >> be a great contribution
!<BR>> > > > >><BR>> > > > >> Pressing
on,<BR>> > > > >><BR>> > > > >> Richard
Stanley<BR>> > > > >> www.legacyfound.org<BR>> > >
> >> Ashland Or.<BR>> > > > >><BR>> > >
> >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>
> > > >> On Jan 20, 2011, at 12:39 PM, Boston Nyer
wrote:<BR>> > > > >><BR>> > > > >>
Hi Richard,<BR>> > > > >>><BR>> > > >
>>> I have a related question to this discussion, which I think
is<BR>> > > > >>> interesting.<BR>> > > >
>>><BR>> > > > >>> At CU, we have a Jatropha
project that you fielded some questions about a<BR>> > > >
>>> few months ago. As I'm sure you've heard, Jatropha seedcake
does not burn<BR>> > > > >>> well, not even close.
So, one of our questions now is: what can we do with<BR>> > >
> >>> this waste stream this is both useful and desirable?<BR>>
> > > >>><BR>> > > > >>> One approach
we will test is to carbonize the material and for biochar<BR>> > >
> >>> briquettes (and a water filter media, etc.). However,
I wholeheartedly<BR>> > > > >>> agree with your sentiment
on biochar briquettes. What is your opinion if<BR>> > > >
>>> the ag-waste doesn't burn well normally? It still seems a
bit contrived,<BR>> > > > >>> eh?<BR>> > > >
>>><BR>> > > > >>> I'm looking forward to
hearing your perspective.<BR>> > > > >>><BR>> >
> > >>> Cheers,<BR>> > > > >>>
Boston<BR>> > > > >>><BR>> > > >
>>><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > >
----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>> >
> > > This message was sent using Illinois State University
RedbirdMail<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>>
> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> >
> > --<BR>> > > > Boston Nyer<BR>> > > >
Graduate Student<BR>> > > > Department of Civil, Environmental,
and Architectural Engineering<BR>> > > > University of Colorado at
Boulder<BR>> > > > (585) 503-3459<BR>> > > >
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