<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
What is the composition of Jatropha seedcake? Probably traces of
oil, how about water? A high ash content?<br>
If no water and low ash, it might be the shape of the seedcake, too
big, relatively little surface area per volume.<br>
<br>
<br>
Just a thought.<br>
<br>
Peter Verhaart<br>
<br>
On 21/01/2011 06:39, Boston Nyer wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:AANLkTi=Fnsf22+O=fRbvhCvPbSHOG1OUwc_YavO-bOPQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Richard,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have a related question to this discussion, which I think
is interesting.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At CU, we have a Jatropha project that you fielded some
questions about a few months ago. As I'm sure you've heard,
Jatropha seedcake does not burn well, not even close. So, one
of our questions now is: what can we do with this waste
stream this is both useful and desirable?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>One approach we will test is to carbonize the material and
for biochar briquettes (and a water filter media, etc.).
However, I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment
on biochar briquettes. What is your opinion if the ag-waste
doesn't burn well normally? It still seems a bit contrived,
eh?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm looking forward to hearing your perspective.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Boston</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 2:13 PM,
Richard Stanley <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rstanley@legacyfound.org">rstanley@legacyfound.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;">Jessica,
<div> Me again, I answered some of these questions to
you in a post directly to you (as that one came
directly from you) --a few minutes ago, but <br>
<div>
<div>let me add a few comments in reponse to your
other questions here...( am responding in-kind
below...)</div>
<div class="im">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On Jan 13, 2011, at 12:33 PM, Jessica De
Clerck wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<span style="border-collapse: separate;
font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
font-size: medium;">
<div style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma;">
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">Hello,</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">I am
looking for some insight into an array of
issues around fuel briquettes and stoves.<span> <span> </span></span>I
apologize for the long list! I am hoping
Crispin, Dr. TLUD, Richard and others can
answer some of these.</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"> </div>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">
<u>Burning Stalks</u></div>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">At
Stove Camp 2010, we used TLUDs to burn
what I recall were maize stalks in Dr.
Anderson’s TLUD. It worked great.<span> </span><span> </span>However,
if maize or sugar cane stalks can be
burned for fuel, why are people not
already using this fuel in three stone
fires, or are they?<span> <span> </span></span>I
did not see this in Uganda, but I do not
know about Haiti or elsewhere (where I
will be working soon).<span> <span> </span></span>I
understand that a TLUD or other stoves
would do a better job of cleaning up
emissions. -But if a person had access to
free fuel in their fields, I would think
they must have a good reason for not
burning it, even in an open fire.</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"> </div>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">
Does the fact that it burns quicker than
wood deter people because it requires more
effort to feed it constantly into the
stove?<span> <span> </span></span>Or does
it not burn as cleanly as wood?</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><u>Consumption
Rate</u></div>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">
Does burning fuel in a TLUD or other stove
slow down the rate at which fuel burns as
compared with fuel burned in an open fire?<span> <span> </span></span>It
seems to me it would because the airflow
into the fire would be more controlled in
a stove.</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"> </div>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">
<u>Density</u></div>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">This
also brings up the question of the density
of a fuel briquette.<span> <span> </span></span>What
difference does density make?<span> <span> </span></span>It
seems like we pay a lot of attention to
this, but to me it seems the only
difference is that the less dense the
briquette the quicker it will burn. Does a
less dense briquette burn hotter (assuming
identical material is used in each
briquette)?</div>
</div>
</span></blockquote>
</div>
It burns quicker but not necessarly hotter. Density
is roughly equivalent to duration assuming same
blend and stove . Greaster density also equates (ex
any special starters) to harder start with above
assumptions also in effect. You 'pays yer money and
takes yer choice', eh ?
<div class="im">
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span
style="border-collapse: separate; font-family:
Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;">
<div style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma;">
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"> </div>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">
<u>Briquette Stoves</u></div>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">I
have recently built another RokStove or
Holey Rocket –the side fed rocket stove
for holey briquettes out of clay and
sawdust.<span> </span><span> </span>I made
it to the best specifications I could come
up with after considering rocket stove
principles, which was 9” long, 15” tall,
and 5” in diameter both in the feeding
area and combustion chamber. Once the
stove has been fired, these dimensions
will have shrunk approximately 10%.<span> <span> </span></span>This
will leave a gap between the stove and my
4”x 2” holey (1” hole) briquettes.<span> </span><span> </span>I
would like to know if anyone else has had
experience in building or using these
stoves so that we may share lessons
learned.<span> <span> </span></span>I
already speak with Rok and he’s a great
help.</div>
</div>
</span></blockquote>
</div>
Rok is the guy for this. He speaks of the need to
think a lot about internal hole size to regulate
primary air volume and via my own insight gained
through such Stoves group luminaries such as Crispin
here, temperature...The annular space between the OD
of the briquettes and the ID of the feed tube, is
also important.
<div class="im">
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span
style="border-collapse: separate; font-family:
Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;">
<div style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma;">
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"> </div>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">
What other stoves have been tested and are
recommended for burning holey briquettes?<span> <span> </span></span>I
am assuming unless the hole is used as an
air channel as in the RokStove, the hole
in the briquette makes no difference (for
example if the briquettes are just put in
a pile, or used in a gasifier, because
otherwise a briquette can be broken into
pieces if too large). </div>
</div>
</span></blockquote>
</div>
<div><span style="border-collapse: separate;
font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
font-size: medium;">
<div style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma;">
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">
<div>Rite-e-o on that one, save the one fact
that the hole greatly acceletates --and
makes more consistent-- the drying rate.
Add too, the effect of the hole in burning
them up right, in the three stove open
burn situation. ie., ex any stove surround
structure. </div>
</div>
</div>
</span></div>
<div class="im">
<blockquote type="cite"><span
style="border-collapse: separate; font-family:
Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;">
<div style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma;">
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><u>Green
Charcoal vs. Uncarbonized Briquettes</u></div>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">
Lastly, has anyone done a study of the
emissions from making “green charcoal”?<span> </span><span> </span>I
see what Amy Smith is doing with the kilns
to make charcoal and the Adam Retort and
there seems to be a ton of smoke coming
off the kilns in the process of making the
charcoal.<span> <span> </span></span>I
understand it is an improvement from
traditional charcoal making, but I wonder
if anyone has measured the emissions so
that I can compare it to other processes.</div>
</div>
</span></blockquote>
</div>
Shhh. you are unveiling the big secret of the
carboniser school here !!! We don't want to talk
about the smoke and energy losses due to
carbonisation..not as they occur in the user site
and all conditions they live with...and after the
techies have left and the ted talks and photo op's
wither from our memories. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But why carbonise at all if you have access to
the charcoal crumbs and fines and dust found around
every charcoal sellers stall everywhere in the third
world...? Thie waste accounts for between 15 and
20% of the lump charcoal being brought into the
stall and sold through it...You blend that amount
into the briquettes and you double the market for
the seller or proportionately reduce their demand on
charcoal while earning them the same income... but
I'm being a bi facetious: It makes sence where there
is no charcoal dust--I guess...
<div class="im">
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span
style="border-collapse: separate; font-family:
Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;">
<div style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma;">
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"> </div>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">
Does anyone have recommendations on what
raw materials ought to be burned in a
retort vs. crushed and made into
uncarbonized briquettes?<span> </span>I’m
thinking coconut shells and other hard
materials that cannot be crushed easily,
but I would appreciate more input.</div>
</div>
</span></blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"><span
style="border-collapse: separate; font-family:
Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;">
<div style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma;">
<div class="im">
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><font
color="#000000" face="Verdana"><span
style="font-size: medium;"> </span></font> </div>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">Thank
you all for you time.</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">Jessica
De Clerck<span> </span></div>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">
</div>
<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings
use the web page<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and
Information see our web site:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"
target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank">Stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
</div>
</span></blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web
page<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see
our web site:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Boston Nyer<br>
Graduate Student<br>
Department of Civil, Environmental, and Architectural
Engineering<br>
University of Colorado at Boulder<br>
(585) 503-3459<br>
</div>
</div>
<pre wrap="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
Stoves mailing list
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>