<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoPlainText, li.MsoPlainText, div.MsoPlainText
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:Consolas;}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal-compose;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:windowtext;}
span.PlainTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Plain Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text";
font-family:Consolas;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;}
@page Section1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=FR link=blue vlink=purple>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dear Crispin and all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sorry, but I strongly disagree with your statement Crispin
on global warming/climate change/climate disruption.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I share your opinion that we should know more about the
potential damages done by the charcoal industry before condemning it.
Responsibilities should be clearly pointed out, whether CO and CO2 emissions
come from the fuel or from the stove, what is the real footprint of charcoal
over its entire lifetime. I agree also that we cannot eradicate it as simply as
that. It's not likely outlawing the entire sector would benefit local economy,
on the contrary. In Benin, many people depend on charcoal supply for their
cooking, or simply because they have a job in the sector. It's not sure either
outlawing this activity would suppress it, nor decrease harmful and warming emissions.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i>"a fable inflamed daily by such as wish to profit
from the trade. Statements such as ?This is for the sake of the forests and of
the atmosphere and global warming? often underlie narrow personal agendas."</i>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>True, global warming is a good marketing argument a
growing number of businesses in the "green energies" sector benefit. So
do I. Does it mean it is not true? You could reverse the argument: companies of
the fossil fuels sector benefit the idea there's no such thing as climate
change.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>On one side or another, the hidden interests cannot
inform us about the authenticity of the two theories.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><br>
In the debate of global warming, we hear so many (conspiracy)theories that it
is also easy to go cherry-picking to give credence to one or another.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>In the Phil Jones graph you sent Crispin, we can see a
global cooling, that is correct, but only for the period of March 2010 to March
2011, so a period of one year. We should be careful not to make Phil Jones say
what he never meant. If you stovers can read French, you should read this
article to have the complete picture of Phil Jones work and of his views on
climate change :<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><a
href="http://www.rue89.com/2010/02/15/le-scientifique-a-lorigine-du-climategate-reprend-la-parole-138655">http://www.rue89.com/2010/02/15/le-scientifique-a-lorigine-du-climategate-reprend-la-parole-138655</a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Here's the google translator you will need:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><a href="http://translate.google.com">http://translate.google.com</a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>This article quotes an interview of Phil Jones on BBC
published saturday 13th of February 2010. Phil Jones, the director of the Climate
Research Unit of the West Anglia university, clearly states that: " The
global warming of (+0.12°C per decade) is the same over three periods (1860-1880,
1910-1940 and 1975-1998), but we notice on the 2002-2009 period a cooling of
0.12°C per decade. A tendency which is not significative, for the period is too
short".<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>So you are right, there is a cooling, it has even been
going on for longer than one year, but it doesn't contradict the global warming
that has been occuring for a century and a half (since industrial ages).
Actually the graph in the link you sent here <a
href="http://www.drroyspencer.com/2011/04/uah-temperature-update-for-march-2011-cooler-still-0-10-deg-c/">http://www.drroyspencer.com/2011/04/uah-temperature-update-for-march-2011-cooler-still-0-10-deg-c/</a>
confirms it, we can easily see the tendency. Temperature of March 2011 is
warmer than temperature of 1979. And is seems March 2011 is a "down"
of the curve, it is probably there will be a "up" soon.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>In this article, a another climatologist explains that
the pace of global warming slowed down, it was anticipated by the
climatologists community, this is what they call "a plateau". Phil
Jones said he was "100% sure" global warming was occuring and it was
due to men's actions.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Crispin, you are quoting Vincent Courtillot. He is perhaps
a good geophysician, but he is mostly known in France for being at best very
wrong on climate change questions, at worst a liar (he and his colleague Claude
Allègre). His theories have been unanimously destroyed by the scientific
community, especially by the Académie des Sciences: <a
href="http://www.lesechos.fr/economie-politique/france/actu/020895911845.htm?xtor=RSS-2059">http://www.lesechos.fr/economie-politique/france/actu/020895911845.htm?xtor=RSS-2059</a>.
Bard and Delaygue have shown that Vincent Courtillot graphs and deductions he
was basing his theories upon were full of mistakes (what he admitted himself
later on). More info here: <a
href="http://sciences.blogs.liberation.fr/home/2008/02/soleil-et-clima.html">http://sciences.blogs.liberation.fr/home/2008/02/soleil-et-clima.html</a>.
Before that, there was already an affair where the guy forgot in his
calculations Earth's albedo and the fact is was round ...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I think we should avoid two misconceptions about stovers
:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>- there are stovers who do stoves only to limit climate
change. It is a preoccupation of Westerners living in rich countries, often motivated
by economic interests. They do not care about poor locals conditions of living.
They do not make products suitable to this people.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>- there are stovers who are on the field but living in
their ivory tower. They do not see the big picture (global warming). They are
only interested in selling/distributing their stoves to the people, even if
they are based on polluting energies (charcoal).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>You can both make user-friendly stoves, and which play a
role in addressing climate change issue. We shouldn't oppose the two things. On
the contrary they go hand-in-hand.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Xavier<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org]
On Behalf Of stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>
Sent: mercredi 6 avril 2011 02:58<br>
To: stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>
Subject: Stoves Digest, Vol 8, Issue 5</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Send Stoves mailing list submissions to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help'
to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>You can reach the person managing the list at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> stoves-owner@lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is
more specific<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>than "Re: Contents of Stoves digest..."<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Today's Topics:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 1. Re: Jamaican cooking (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 2. Re: Stoves Digest, Vol 8, Issue 4 (Nat of
WorldStove)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>----------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 1<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 18:08:18 -0400<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott"
<crispinpigott@gmail.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: "Stoves"
<stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jamaican cooking<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID:
<036801cbf3dd$f8aa8d80$e9ffa880$@gmail.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dear Ron 1 (how?s that?)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>The main addition I think important here is to
respond to this statement today in your reply to Otto.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Otto: ">They do not mentioned anything about the
prosessing of the biomass into charcoal will release greenhouse emissions and
loose about 50-60% of the energy content in the fuel."<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Crispin: " I think the assumption is that people
involved in the stove business already know how charcoal is made."<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>RWL: My assumption is that how it was made never
appeared in anyone's efficiency calculations - despite their probably not
knowing for any particular batch - and probably not caring. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I have tackled this several times head on and no one
responds, ever. I guess either they agree that I am correct or they have no
answer, or they don?t care.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Unless the thermal efficiency of the entire operation is
taken into account, including the making, transport and use of charcoal and
wood products, they cannot be fairly compared. What I have seen instead is the
repetition of the unsupported statement that all charcoal production is bad,
that it is all wasteful, implying that no technology exists that can make it
competitive with wood at any scale, that the ?emissions? from charcoal making
are high and that this consists mostly of particulate matter that would not be
created if it were burned as wood. The argument is unbalanced.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Obviously these popular memes are bunk, or someone would
show me calculations that differ from those I have several times provided on
this this list. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The transport of charcoal is very efficient per MJ, far
better than wood and it matters a lot. Many people transport huge amounts of
wood using diesel engined trucks and it is not efficient to do so. It is not an
accident that people in the biofuels energy business choose to transport
charcoal instead of wood. Because it is efficient.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Consider also the potential of technologies because there
is no point in looking backwards cherry-picking bad practises as some here seem
to prefer, railing against what is obviously sub-optimal, then talking only
about efficient wood and other processed biomass stoves. Why the prejudice
against charcoal? Because that is all it is. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>The use of charcoal for cooking is an abomination and
should be as much outlawed as is the growing practice of outlawing charcoal
production. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>That makes no sense to me both as an advocate of system
efficiency and as a use of law to enforce one?s misinformed whims on a largely
poor, long-suffering population.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>My own experience with charcoal in Sudan is that
charcoal making/use has ruined that fine country. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The same can be said of cattle in many countries. Sudan
suffers from far more than the making of charcoal and it will continue to until
the war is resolved. War is not good for the environment. People do what they
can to survive, including selling charcoal made badly, on the run. Banning
charcoal in Sudan would be like banning food for rural dwellers hiding from the
next attack. Life is not so simple.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>One can improve lots of things - maybe even buggy whips -
but we should be talking here on this list of something other than sub-optimum
solutions. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Name one. I have.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>With charcoal-making stoves, the users can make money
- not expend it. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Burying charcoal in the ground in not ?making money?. It
is taking money from huge international traders whose business case rests on
the feeble and shrinking claims that the world is going to roast from our
emissions of CO2, a fable inflamed daily by such as wish to profit from the
trade. Statements such as ?This is for the sake of the forests and of the
atmosphere and global warming? often underlie narrow personal agendas. I am
surrounded by them. BTW it is now officially called ?climate disruption? to imply
that mankind has ?disrupted? the climate and made it go
hotter/cooler/wetter/drier/stormier/calmer all at once. And snow more, but
less.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Forests increased in area, should be harvested
sustainably and the energy in them used efficiently, without prejudice. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The globe is presently not warming
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/04/05/global-temperature-still-headed-down-uah-negative-territory/#more-37362
and according the Dr Phil Jones (the famous one from the Climate Research Unit,
University of East Anglia) has not been warming since 1995. I trust his
opinion, he?s been keeping the keys. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>If your stove technology selection is based on global
temperatures you might want to read the thermometer: ?The global temperature
has fallen .653?C (from +0.554 in March 2010 to -0.099 in March 2011) in just
one year.? The tropics have cooled 1 deg C in the past year as a 30 year
cooling cycle kicks in on cue.
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2011/04/uah-temperature-update-for-march-2011-cooler-still-0-10-deg-c/
and really good temperature graphs showing what the heating season will be like
in N America and Europe in the coming 30 years is contained in the excellent
presentation
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/04/05/courtillot-on-the-solar-uv-climate-connection/#more-37311
(Prof Vincent Courtillot, professor of geophysics at the
<http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universit%25C3%25A9_Paris_VII_-_Diderot&prev=/search%3Fq%3DVincent%2BCourtillot,%2BDirecteur,%2BUniversit%25C3%25A9%2BParis%2BDiderot,%26hl%3Den%26prmd%3Divns&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhg-8U4AfUlbHEZagPHonF1DwvgFig>
University Paris-Diderot and Chair of paleomagnetism and geodynamics of the
<http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_universitaire_de_France&prev=/search%3Fq%3DVincent%2BCourtillot,%2BDirecteur,%2BUniversit%25C3%25A9%2BParis%2BDiderot,%26hl%3Den%26prmd%3Divns&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhhUddtL3vfeKBqyepoBSxVzGvhonw>
Institut Universitaire de France. We have to build stoves that match the
climate. We are responsible to know what on Earth is going on.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Stovers: beware getting your snout too far into the
carbon feeding trough. It?s a day that will be followed by night.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Otto: it would be interesting if you could provide some
calculations showing whether Chris Adam and I are or are not correct about the
system efficiency and emissions of a modern charcoal making and cooking
industry.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Stovers: there are thousands of documents railing against
the evils of smoky, inefficient paraffin (kerosene), but it turned out to be
the stoves, not the fuel. Thousands more rail against coal as a rich,
inevitable source of PM, yet it is the stoves that fail to burn them. Other
thousands of articles scream about the choking, gasping women and babies who
burn wood, that medieval fuel of cavemen, yet it is the stoves that are the
problem. ?Dung has only an 85% combustion efficiency!? yells another. Yet it was
the open fire that caused it.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Does anyone see a pattern here? All are solvable problems
when correctly described and addressed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>People blame goats for destroying the land. In fact they
are the only animals left that can live after the cattle have destroyed it with
their hooves and bulk. Goats are the clean-up crew, not the real problem.
Mismanaged forests become depleted, no matter what the ultimate use of the
biomass. We have to see the forest, not one dis-favoured tree.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Regards<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Crispin<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-------------- next part --------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>URL:
<http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110405/bdc769b1/attachment-0001.html><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2011 20:57:32 -0400<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: Nat of WorldStove <nataniele@aim.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 8, Issue 4<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID:
<8CDC20CBEF8915D-14F4-6BB2@webmail-m064.sysops.aol.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>DearCrispin, Ron, James, Otto, Ronald, Richard and all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I see nowthis wonderful email exchange and chinme in with
some information. In many of the ACP countires I have beenworking in there are
many cast aluminium charcoal stoves. Whenever I am in a new location I try
todocument all available local stoves and I would be happy to provide jpegs to
ofthese aluminium stoves to anyone who might be helped by having them.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>As for myown stoves, Ron is correct, several of our
stoves have injection moulded topand bottom plates. We are currentlyworking on
the newest evolution of these and will be investing in new toolingthis year. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Ronald is also correct in noting the thermal conducive
properties ofaluminium and if care is taken, it is entirely possible to produce
a stove witha flame that is above the melting point of aluminium with little or
noappreciable effect (for the first two to three years) on some of the
aluminium components. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Best thingof all about ALis haw at the end of the stove?s
life it can be easily recycled into newstoves. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Hope thishelps the discussion<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Nat ofWorldStove<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sent: Tue, Apr 5, 2011 9:00 pm<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Stoves Digest, Vol 8, Issue 4<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Send Stoves mailing list submissions to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help'
to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>You can reach the person managing the list at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> stoves-owner@lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is
more specific<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>than "Re: Contents of Stoves digest..."<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Today's Topics:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 1. Jamaican cooking (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 2. Re: Jamaican cooking (James Robinson)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 3. Re: Jamaican cooking (Otto Formo)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 4. Re: Jamaican cooking (Ron Larson)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 5. Re: Jamaican cooking (Ronald Hongsermeier)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 6. Re: Jamaican cooking (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 7. Re: Jamaican cooking (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 8. Re: Jamaican cooking (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 9. Re: Jamaican cooking (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 10. Re: Jamaican cooking (Richard Stanley)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 11. Re: Jamaican cooking (rongretlarson@comcast.net)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 12. Re: Jamaican cooking (rongretlarson@comcast.net)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>----------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 1<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 15:37:50 -0400<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott"
<crispinpigott@gmail.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: "Stoves"
<stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: [Stoves] Jamaican cooking<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID:
<01cd01cbf2ff$ca84bc70$5f8e3550$@gmail.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dear Friends<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Does anyone know about an aluminum charcoal stove that
one could call a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>'traditional stove' which is made and sold in Jamaica?
Robert van der Plas<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>told me about seeing it a long time ago and I would like
to get a look at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>one.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Crispin<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-------------- next part --------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>URL:
<http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110404/97b2d420/attachment-0001.html><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 09:02:26 +0200<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: James Robinson <jamesrobinson77@gmail.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jamaican cooking<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID:
<BANLkTim3-MBZqPXvN6pY2szcsLHf7Sj4mA@mail.gmail.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="windows-1252"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Hi Crispin,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>There's this one in the hedon archive, drawings at the
bottom of the page<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://www.hedon.info/View+Stove?itemId=9373<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><http://www.hedon.info/View+Stove?itemId=9373>Cheers<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>James Robinson<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>UJ SeTAR<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>On 4 April 2011 21:37, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
<crispinpigott@gmail.com>wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Dear Friends<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Does anyone know about an aluminum charcoal stove
that one could call a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> ?traditional stove? which is made and sold in
Jamaica? Robert van der Plas<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> told me about seeing it a long time ago and I would
like to get a look at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> one.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Crispin<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Stoves mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the
web page<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and
Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-------------- next part --------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>URL:
<http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110405/ebbb39bf/attachment-0001.html><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 3<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 09:23:33 +0200 (MEST)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: Otto Formo <formo-o@online.no><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: James Robinson <jamesrobinson77@gmail.com>,
Discussion of biomass<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> cooking stoves
<stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jamaican cooking<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>
<17313093.1368.1301988213780.JavaMail.adm-moff@moffice2.nsc.no><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dear charcoal fans,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>This one looks very much like a Jiko from
Kenya.........whats the news?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I guess it will look very nice and "improved",
but most certainly the aluminium <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>will start melting and create toxic emmissions.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Fuel saving 40% (fieldtest).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>They do not mentioned anything about the prosessing of
the biomass into charcoal <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>will release greenhouse emissions and loose about 50-60%
of the energy content <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>in the fuel.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Otto<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> From: James Robinson [jamesrobinson77@gmail.com]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Sent: 2011-04-05 09:02:26 MEST<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
[stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jamaican cooking<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Hi Crispin,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> There's this one in the hedon archive, drawings at
the bottom of the page<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> http://www.hedon.info/View+Stove?itemId=9373<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>
<http://www.hedon.info/View+Stove?itemId=9373>Cheers<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> James Robinson<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> UJ SeTAR<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> On 4 April 2011 21:37, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
<crispinpigott@gmail.com>wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> > Dear Friends<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> ><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> > Does anyone know about an aluminum charcoal
stove that one could call a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> > ?traditional stove? which is made and sold in
Jamaica? Robert van der Plas<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> > told me about seeing it a long time ago and I
would like to get a look at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> > one.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> ><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> > Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> > Crispin<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> ><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> ><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> ><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> > _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> > Stoves mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> ><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> > stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> ><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use
the web page<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> ><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> >
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> ><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and
Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> ><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> ><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> ><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 4<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 05:40:12 -0600<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: Ron Larson <rongretlarson@comcast.net><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jamaican cooking<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID:
<54D38ADF-1CF0-41AF-857D-AA7F9981D7AF@comcast.net><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Otto and list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Good point below. We probably can't outlaw the jiko (as
evidenced by the <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>failure of many countries to effectively outlaw char
production). However, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>maybe they can receive a big tax, with proceeds solely
toward char-making stove <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>assistance.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I'd like to hear anyone's experience with aluminum for
the latter-type stove. I <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>know of some use.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Ron<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>On Apr 5, 2011, at 1:23 AM, Otto Formo
<formo-o@online.no> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Dear charcoal fans,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> This one looks very much like a Jiko from
Kenya.........whats the news?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> I guess it will look very nice and
"improved", but most certainly the <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>aluminium will start melting and create toxic emmissions.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Fuel saving 40% (fieldtest).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> They do not mentioned anything about the prosessing
of the biomass into <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>charcoal will release greenhouse emissions and loose
about 50-60% of the energy <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>content in the fuel.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Otto<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> From: James Robinson [jamesrobinson77@gmail.com]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> Sent: 2011-04-05 09:02:26 MEST<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
[stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jamaican cooking<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> Hi Crispin,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> There's this one in the hedon archive, drawings
at the bottom of the page<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> http://www.hedon.info/View+Stove?itemId=9373<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>
<http://www.hedon.info/View+Stove?itemId=9373>Cheers<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> James Robinson<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> UJ SeTAR<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> On 4 April 2011 21:37, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
<crispinpigott@gmail.com>wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> Dear Friends<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> Does anyone know about an aluminum charcoal
stove that one could call a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> ?traditional stove? which is made and sold
in Jamaica? Robert van der Plas<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> told me about seeing it a long time ago and
I would like to get a look at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> one.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> Crispin<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>>
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> Stoves mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use
the web page<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>>
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and
Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Stoves mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the
web page<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and
Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 5<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2011 14:32:00 +0200<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: Ronald Hongsermeier <rwhongser@web.de><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jamaican cooking<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID: <4D9B0BC0.5000907@web.de><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1";
Format="flowed"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dear Otto,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I am not a "Charcoal Fan", I push all my air
through my lungs, but get <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>enough oxidation done to do a little thinking.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>However, not having seen the original results due to lack
of time, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>wouldn't a reduction in the amount of _charcoal_ used
also reduce the <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>total system effects? I have to assume that the people
burning charcoal <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>have decided to do so. If I can reduce the amount of
charcoal they are <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>burning, they might even have enough extra cash to buy a
tree seedling.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>One interesting thing about aluminum is that its heat
transfer <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>capabilities make it surprising hard to melt by a very
small fire. I'm <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>also not aware of the net "greenhouse
emissions" of turning out the <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>steel for a stove vs. the aluminum for a stove, but if
you check that <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>out there might be another factor to add into your total
equation of life.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Ronald von Kannschlechtschwei?en<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>On 05.04.2011 09:23, Otto Formo wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Dear charcoal fans,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> This one looks very much like a Jiko from
Kenya.........whats the news?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> I guess it will look very nice and
"improved", but most certainly the <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>aluminium will start melting and create toxic emmissions.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Fuel saving 40% (fieldtest).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> They do not mentioned anything about the prosessing
of the biomass into <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>charcoal will release greenhouse emissions and loose
about 50-60% of the energy <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>content in the fuel.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Otto<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> From: James Robinson [jamesrobinson77@gmail.com]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> Sent: 2011-04-05 09:02:26 MEST<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
[stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jamaican cooking<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> Hi Crispin,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> There's this one in the hedon archive, drawings
at the bottom of the page<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> http://www.hedon.info/View+Stove?itemId=9373<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>
<http://www.hedon.info/View+Stove?itemId=9373>Cheers<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> James Robinson<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> UJ SeTAR<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> On 4 April 2011 21:37, Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott<crispinpigott@gmail.com>wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> Dear Friends<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> Does anyone know about an aluminum charcoal
stove that one could call a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> ?traditional stove? which is made and sold
in Jamaica? Robert van der Plas<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> told me about seeing it a long time ago and
I would like to get a look at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> one.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> Crispin<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>>
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> Stoves mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings
use the web page<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and
Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> Stoves mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings
use the web page<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>>
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and
Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> No virus found in this message.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
<http://www.avg.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database:
1500/3550 - Release Date: 04/04/11<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>No virus found in this message.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3550 - Release
Date: 04/04/11<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-------------- next part --------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>URL:
<http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110405/9e8ce82c/attachment-0001.html><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 6<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 09:44:00 -0400<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott"
<crispinpigott@gmail.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jamaican cooking<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID:
<02a301cbf397$8814b1e0$983e15a0$@gmail.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dear Otto<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>There are two devices which are quite different in
performance: the Jiko<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>stove (I think the word jiko means 'charcoal stove') and
the Improved Kenyan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Jiko (IKJ) which is the one to which most people refer
when saying 'Jiko' or<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>'JIKO'. The IKJ is a ceramic lined jiko. It was developed
by a school<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>teacher and made a commercially viable reality by Hugh
Allen (a ceramics<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>specialist, presently head of a AT centre in Tanzania).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The Jamaican stove is made to have pots sit into the
skirt and is not like<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>the IKJ at all in that sense. It is an interesting
device: normally jikos<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>are not strong enough to take the pressure of having a
pot inside the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>ceramic because the clay is so poor and the fit not much
better. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>I guess it will look very nice and
"improved", but most certainly the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>aluminium will start melting and create toxic emmissions.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I am not sure how improved it will be in the fuel use
sense, but I am<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>interested in knowing what you think are the toxic
emissions from melting<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>aluminum. That would be valuable to know.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I am not sure we can assume the fire will, with any ease,
melt the body. I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>recently filed a patent on an aluminum coal stove. J<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>Fuel saving 40% (fieldtest).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Actually they said it was the thermal efficiency that is
40%. That is low<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>for a charcoal stove. However whether or not it was worth
introducing<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>depends on the thermal efficiency of the baseline
product. Might have been<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>15%.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>They do not mentioned anything about the prosessing
of the biomass into<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>charcoal will release greenhouse emissions and loose
about 50-60% of the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>energy content in the fuel.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I think the assumption is that people involved in the
stove business already<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>know how charcoal is made.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Regards<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Crispin<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-------------- next part --------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>URL:
<http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110405/a93466ab/attachment-0001.html><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 7<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 09:44:00 -0400<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott"
<crispinpigott@gmail.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jamaican cooking<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID:
<02b701cbf397$8b2685c0$a1739140$@gmail.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Thanks James<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://www.hedon.info/View+Stove?itemId=9373<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>For those who can?t see the link the info is below.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Robert v.d. Plas said it was about 20 years ago. The
price seems to have a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>bit of a ?development NGO involved? air to it: $120 ???
Good grief.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Mo?ambicanos make things more complex than that literally
in an open field<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>and sell them for a few dollars. Same for Darfur. Huh.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>From the look of the tapers it seems it can be made
using tropical West<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>African techniques (for example Liberian founders). The
skill set difference<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>between the Sahelian and the coastal founders is
remarkable for the fact<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>there is such a difference. The Sahelians would have no
problem at all<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>making that stove. I have seen them make pots that
require a 5 part mould,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>produced ?in the bush? without even using a draw and
cope.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Well that is an interesting design as well. If the pots
were small, they<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>would drop into the taper and sit quite close to a very
small fire, becoming<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>shrouded at the same time.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Regards<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Crispin<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>New Improved Cookstove<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>[edit] <http://www.hedon.info/Edit+Stove&itemId=9373>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Location, continent: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Africa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>America North<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>America South<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Location, country: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Jamaica <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Senegal <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Bolivia<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Paraguay<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Stove information<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Stove ID: JAM2hm<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Model: Improved<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Application: Households<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Type of stove: Portable<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Fuel: Charcoal<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Construction<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Materials: Metal<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Mix<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Other metal<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dimensions: 220<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Construction method: Device makers: Local founders<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Construction method :Casting small founders use pattern
provided by the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>project, together with moulding box and sand. Scrap
aluminium is melted in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>furnace and poured into pattern, which is placed in
moulding box with sand.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dissemination<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Availability: Commercially available<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Distributors: Through private-sector involvment:
wholesalers, retailers and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>hardware merchants, artisans.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Price in US$: 120 (1993: 1 US$: 23.8 J$) <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Start date: Tue 31 of Dec., 1991<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Project/Program or commercial distribution: Approximately
1,800 improved<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>cookstoves sold through project personnel, manufacturers
and private sector.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>(all figures 1993)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Number of stoves sold or distributed: 1800<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Performance<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Efficiency: (lab. tests) 40%<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Fuel saving: (field test) 30%<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Contact details <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Address: New Improved Cookstove Project. Ministry of
Public Utilities Mining<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>and Energy, 36 Trafalgar Road, Kingston 10, Jamaica, West
Indies<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-------------- next part --------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>URL:
<http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110405/ed301eec/attachment-0001.html><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 8<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 10:51:43 -0400<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott"
<crispinpigott@gmail.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jamaican cooking<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID: <02c101cbf3a0$fbf1b5f0$f3d521d0$@gmail.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dear Ron<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>?wouldn't a reduction in the amount of _charcoal_
used also reduce the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>total system effects? I have to assume that the people
burning charcoal have<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>decided to do so. If I can reduce the amount of charcoal
they are burning,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>they might even have enough extra cash to buy a tree
seedling.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>This was looked at very carefully by Peter Coughlin who
makes the POCA, the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>technology underlying the recent capture of a major award.
The benefits of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>saving even a small amount of charcoal, say 15%, are
quite large in terms of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>the current practises and the total emissions. It
certainly pays (in carbon<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>trade) better to save charcoal than to save wood.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>One interesting thing about aluminum is that its heat
transfer capabilities<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>make it surprising hard to melt by a very small fire. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Same for copper. Even using a cutting torch it is
difficult to melt a block<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>of copper. Steel can be melted with char if you have a
fan (as Philips found<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>out!) so it is more about heat balance and flow than the
material.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>I'm also not aware of the net "greenhouse
emissions" of turning out the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>steel for a stove vs. the aluminum for a stove, but if
you check that out<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>there might be another factor to add into your total
equation of life.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>A consideration here is that once produced, aluminum is
easily recycled with<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>a very low energy cost which is why roadside producers
can turn out products<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>with almost no equipment. It is not only the life cycle
of the product that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>should be considered by the life cycle of the material
itself.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Crispin von Suchenachgutenschwei?er<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Ronald von Kannschlechtschwei?en<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-------------- next part --------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>URL:
<http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110405/589344e8/attachment-0001.html><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 9<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 10:51:43 -0400<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott"
<crispinpigott@gmail.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jamaican cooking<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID:
<02cc01cbf3a0$fc985630$f5c90290$@gmail.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dear Ron<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>I'd like to hear anyone's experience with aluminum
for the latter-type<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>stove. I know of some use.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I am interested to know what you heard. It is a design
that is ripe for<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>inserting three curved clay tiles, n'est-ce pas?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Regards<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Crispin<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 10<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 08:44:47 -0700<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: Richard Stanley <rstanley@legacyfound.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jamaican cooking<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID:
<2B327608-8A6D-4B1E-9504-C18578A190DF@legacyfound.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Otto,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>.......... shhhhhhhhh !<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>with kind regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Richard Stanley<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>On Apr 5, 2011, at 12:23 AM, Otto Formo wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Dear charcoal fans,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> This one looks very much like a Jiko from
Kenya.........whats the news?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> I guess it will look very nice and
"improved", but most certainly the <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>aluminium will start melting and create toxic emmissions.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Fuel saving 40% (fieldtest).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> They do not mentioned anything about the prosessing
of the biomass into <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>charcoal will release greenhouse emissions and loose
about 50-60% of the energy <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>content in the fuel.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Otto<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> From: James Robinson [jamesrobinson77@gmail.com]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> Sent: 2011-04-05 09:02:26 MEST<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
[stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jamaican cooking<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> Hi Crispin,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> There's this one in the hedon archive, drawings
at the bottom of the page<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> http://www.hedon.info/View+Stove?itemId=9373<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>
<http://www.hedon.info/View+Stove?itemId=9373>Cheers<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> James Robinson<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> UJ SeTAR<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> On 4 April 2011 21:37, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
<crispinpigott@gmail.com>wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> Dear Friends<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> Does anyone know about an aluminum charcoal
stove that one could call a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> ?traditional stove? which is made and sold
in Jamaica? Robert van der Plas<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> told me about seeing it a long time ago and
I would like to get a look at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> one.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> Crispin<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>>
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> Stoves mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings
use the web page<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>>
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and
Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Stoves mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the
web page<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and
Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 11<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 16:09:23 +0000 (UTC)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: rongretlarson@comcast.net<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jamaican cooking<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>
<274543516.3587251.1302019763630.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Crispin eta l <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I was thinking of Nat Mulcahy's Lucia - where I have seen
aluminum end caps (and <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>steel - not sure what is current in his thinking). <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Ron <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott"
<crispinpigott@gmail.com> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"
<stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2011 8:51:43 AM <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jamaican cooking <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dear Ron <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>I'd like to hear anyone's experience with aluminum
for the latter-type <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>stove. I know of some use. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I am interested to know what you heard. It is a design
that is ripe for <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>inserting three curved clay tiles, n'est-ce pas? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Regards <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Crispin <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>_______________________________________________ <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Stoves mailing list <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web
page <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see
our web site: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://www.bioenergylists.org/ <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-------------- next part --------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>URL:
<http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110405/8062a1a9/attachment-0001.html><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 12<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 17:13:42 +0000 (UTC)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: rongretlarson@comcast.net<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org>, Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <crispinpigott@gmail.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jamaican cooking<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>
<1478077999.3592077.1302023622424.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Crispin: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I spent some time on this before realizing there were two
"Rons" in here and <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>that I was not the intended recipient of this one below.
I am sehrschlecht <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Schwei?er . <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The main addition I think important here is to respond to
this statement today <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>in your reply to Otto. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Otto: ">They do not mentioned anything about the
prosessing of the biomass into <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>charcoal will release greenhouse emissions and loose
about 50-60% of the energy <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>content in the fuel." <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Crispin: " I think the assumption is that people
involved in the stove business <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>already know how charcoal is made." <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>RWL: My assumption is that how it was made never appeared
in anyone's efficiency <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>calculations - despite their probably not knowing for any
particular batch - and <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>probably not caring. Now it is time to care and to
include char production <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>efficiency in Jiko efficiency statements. This is for the
sake of the forests <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>and of the atmosphere and global warming.. The use of
charcoal for cooking is an <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>abomination and should be as much outlawed as is the
growing practice of <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>outlawing charcoal production. My own experience with
charcoal in Sudan is that <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>charcoal making/use has ruined that fine country. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>One can improve lots of things - maybe even buggy whips -
but we should be <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>talking here on this list of something other than
sub-optimum solutions. With <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>charcoal-making stoves, the users can make money - not
expend it. The made-char <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>should be put in the ground - as is being done for all
(?) :Lucia stoves. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The subject of aluminum vs steel vs ceramics is great. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Ron Holzkohler Larson <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott"
<crispinpigott@gmail.com> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"
<stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2011 8:51:43 AM <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jamaican cooking <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dear Ron <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>?wouldn't a reduction in the amount of _charcoal_
used also reduce the total <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>system effects? I have to assume that the people burning
charcoal have decided <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>to do so. If I can reduce the amount of charcoal they are
burning, they might <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>even have enough extra cash to buy a tree seedling. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>This was looked at very carefully by Peter Coughlin who
makes the POCA, the <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>technology underlying the recent capture of a major
award. The benefits of <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>saving even a small amount of charcoal, say 15%, are
quite large in terms of the <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>current practises and the total emissions. It certainly
pays (in carbon trade) <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>better to save charcoal than to save wood. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>One interesting thing about aluminum is that its heat
transfer capabilities <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>make it surprising hard to melt by a very small fire. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Same for copper. Even using a cutting torch it is
difficult to melt a block of <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>copper. Steel can be melted with char if you have a fan
(as Philips found out!) <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>so it is more about heat balance and flow than the
material. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>I'm also not aware of the net "greenhouse
emissions" of turning out the steel <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>for a stove vs. the aluminum for a stove, but if you
check that out there might <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>be another factor to add into your total equation of
life. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>A consideration here is that once produced, aluminum is
easily recycled with a <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>very low energy cost which is why roadside producers can
turn out products with <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>almost no equipment. It is not only the life cycle of the
product that should be <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>considered by the life cycle of the material itself. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Crispin von Suchenachgutenschwei?er <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>regards, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Ronald von Kannschlechtschwei?en <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>_______________________________________________ <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Stoves mailing list <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web
page <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see
our web site: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://www.bioenergylists.org/ <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-------------- next part --------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>URL:
<http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110405/57650f61/attachment-0001.html><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Stoves mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web
page<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information
see our web site:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://www.bioenergylists.org/<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>End of Stoves Digest, Vol 8, Issue 4<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>************************************<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-------------- next part --------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>URL:
<http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110405/736a03f2/attachment.html><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Stoves mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web
page<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information
see our web site:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://www.bioenergylists.org/<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>End of Stoves Digest, Vol 8, Issue 5<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>************************************<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>