<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'><style>p { margin: 0; }</style><div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000">Xavier and cc stove list:<br> <br> I own a 7 kW (name plate) PV system and have worked peripherally on what you call SHS systems in Sudan, Ethiopia and Zimbabwe. I understand very well how easy it is for something to go wrong - generally not with the panels. But with the right sort of company giving service, I believe they can work. But I do applaud your suggested use of PV lanterns - which have become amazingly cheap. Some are capable of cell phone recharge and radio service as well.<br><br> So I am not surprised that you could assemble a set of quotes on SHS problems. Unfortunately, I couldn't make anything work at the google docs site. I look forward to your sending me something directly and/or telling me what I may be doing incorrectly (I have received from this site before.).<br><br> PV is too far from our core stove topics to discuss this much more, but I would like to hear from you on whether you see similar problems for the emerging rural stoves industry? I just saw a nice stand-alone teapot which could generate enough electricity to recharge cell phones. Earlier I have seen several wood stoves that could do the same. Do you have recommendations for this list along these lines? (To my knowledge, no omerta here.)<br><br>Ron<br><hr id="zwchr"><b>From: </b>"Xavier Brandao" <xvr.brandao@gmail.com><br><b>To: </b>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br><b>Sent: </b>Sunday, July 24, 2011 11:43:40 AM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Stoves] WorldStove replies to BioFuelWatyche's latest imprecise reporting of facts (rongretlarson@comcast.net)<br><br>Dear Ron,<br><br>Yes, I am very happy to share this document to anyone, thanks for your<br>interest. There were a few references to internal documents of the<br>foundation, I removed them, the rest is not confidential and can be shared<br>with everyone.<br>I send it to you by email, and also post it on Google documents here :<br>C<br>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nRXa32OgE0uPuyakSPlpPA0xqmU0hnH59Q7WAIof918/edit?pli=1PIc/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1<br><br>This a bit off-topic, but perhaps a few people on this list have worked with<br>solar in developing countries. The goal of this document was to show there<br>are many questions about the suitability of the Solar Home Systems, also<br>called SHS, to developing countries, especially to rural areas and to the<br>bottom of the pyramid. A SHS is a kit composed of a solar panel + battery +<br>regulator + plugs + bulbs.<br>Many hints showed projects with difficulties around the world. In my<br>opinion, SHS is not an appropriate technology. It is a costly technology,<br>with technical limitations, made in developed countries and to be shipped to<br>developing countries, then to remote regions. A technology which satisfies<br>only certain needs : some light, radio and a small TV. No productive use of<br>the electricity. SHS need maintenance, trained users and qualified<br>technicians. I believe in electrification and solar for the third world, but<br>rather with solar lanterns, or carefully localized solar power plants.<br><br>All the indicators for the foundation projects were red, yet no one would<br>react or question the technology. Amazing. No one at the board would hear<br>that something was wrong. I collected info during months, while carefully<br>trying to start a discussion. The team of business developers tried also,<br>but no critics were allowed. This was NOT open to discussion. I had a few<br>words with the board, questioning the unattainable objectives. I sent a long<br>email to everyone in the foundation, trying to break the omerta and start a<br>public debate. I was fired without warning sometime after :) Up till now,<br>the foundation goes on with SHS. It is not going better for them, actually<br>it is going much worse.<br><br>I am sure the same story happens everyday, and will happen again.<br><br>Xavier<br><br><br><br><<< Message: 3<br>Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 00:10:10 +0000 (UTC)<br>From: rongretlarson@comcast.net<br>To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>Subject: Re: [Stoves] WorldStove replies to BioFuelWatyche's latest<br> imprecise reporting of facts. (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)<br>Message-ID:<br> <br><1592677650.193756.1311293410736.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.co<br>mcast.net><br> <br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br><br><br>Xavier, list etal <br><br>1. Thanks for the added insight - with which I mostly agree. The "mostly"<br>refers to the word "hidden". BFW is very open about wanting to kill all<br>forms of biofuel. Maybe "most" is more accurate - but I haven't seen a<br>bio-gas or bio-liquid they liked. They may have approved of indigenous<br>groups collecting fuel wood for cooking and heating. <br><br>2. As you say - almost (?) every organization has a desire for self<br>preservation. BFW has no reason to be an exception. The problem as BFW<br>relates to Biochar is that they apparently see Biochar only as another<br>biofuel.. Biochar proponents, like most on the Biochar lists generally place<br>energy (or biofuels) last (if at all) among the three obvious potential<br>dollar flows.. The stoves list is more divided - but rarely open<br>hostility/denial towards sequestration or soil benefits, which BFW either<br>ignores or denies.. Jobs, rural economic development, reduced irrigation and<br>fertilizer needs, nutrient retention etc - all have to be put down by BFW-<br>even though they have little place in the world of biofuels. <br><br>3. Our Biochar job is to show that Biochar is inherently different from<br>biofuels (because so many benefits can be retained at the site of converting<br>biomass to Biochar) This assumes that the people willing to pay for<br>sequestration agree that conversion should be done where the biomass is<br>grown and harvested. We in the developed world need the developing world -<br>and there are not many (any?) economic arenas where we can say that. <br><br>Ron <br><br>3. I'd like to see your 15 page list of quotes, if you care to. I promise<br>confidentiality. <br><br>Ron >>><br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>http://www.bioenergylists.org/<br><br></div></div></body></html>