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Hi Tom and thanks for the inquiry and the info. I am going to paste below a copy of a letter I sent out earlier as a way to try to explain in my very basic language what seems to be different about what we have done, I hope this helps. I have been in contact with Mr. Scott (whom I think has a genius level idea where the "factory in a box" program is aimed at both environmental as well as unemployment issues). If my stove could be tested in his lab I do not know. I will be undergoing EPA cert testing as I continue my growth process....governed mostly by funding (out of pocket). Do you know of any ways in the mean time to get testing done as I am expecting I will have to wait until the $20,000 usd is in the budget. Are some of these contacts you mentioned places where I could get some preliminary numbers?<br>Roger.<br><br>Thank you Ron for trying to bring this to a level I can hopefully
communicate on. I will try to respond in kind. Here is what I do know
for a fact. I started cleaning chimneys at age 18. The average stove at
the time was reportedly dumping 60 to 70 grams pm10 particulate
emissions per hour, per stove, into our airshed. This information was
supplied by the EPA who wanted to see these stoves replaced with
certified stoves with a maximum emission of 4.5 grams/hour. What
happened in the homes of my 4000 customers over a 26 year period was
that these new stoves cut consumption in half, better in some cases as I
tried to educate good habits. This nearly destroyed my chimney cleaning
revenue's, but I was convinced that CONSUMPTION was the enemy. Many of
these clients went from six cord a year to three, and cleanings went
from 2 to 3 a year to once every 2 to 3 years and some longer.<br>So
what changed.....the fuel types stayed the same....just less of it. Why?
the heat generated by the primary fire was almost un important in the
overall production of the stove. What was important was the heat
generated by the secondary fire, the burning of the gasses from the
primary fire. Information also supplied by the EPA was the overall
average efficiency ratings. They lumped all pre EPA stoves in the 20%
range ( I wonder if this is what the average yurt owner in Mongolia has
for the $65.00 they reportedly pay, I would guess this is correct)
todays stoves are pushing 80%. <br>So now let me pose this question in a
different light. One of the biggest issues facing mankind is depletion,
correct? depletion of the rain forest for example. The biggest key
factor in my experiance to stopping our air quality issues was slowing
consumption, which in turn slowed emissions. Why could not this simple
minded approach work to help the Amazon. As I understand the
process......,more trees needing c.o. to exist and giving off oxygen as a
by-product means we slow down the rate at which we cut down this
forest, by conserving fuel. The same must be true then with the coal. I
hate the idea that that much coal is used......and if the information I
got from a local to Mongolia's capitol city is even near true than this
technology could only reduce the appetite.<br>You mentioned temperature
ranges at the flue pipe having a correlation to c.o. releases. I believe
it had to do with the number 200 deg c which my converter tells me is
97 deg f, correct? The flue gas temps I have recorded by using both
thermocouple as well as infra red testing equipment have been quite
consistant at 350 degrees F. or better, with a top temp of 450 deg f.
converted to Celsius would be 176 to 232 deg c. This might be low in
the eyes those not understanding that first these gasses have been
forced through our secondary combustion system at temps ranging from 800
deg f (426 c) to 1550.deg f (843 deg c.) . The heat output of our unit
is almost all from the secondary burn process. When I shut off the
primary air, the fuel load "smolders" producing the fuel for the
secondary fire, giving us a basic gasifier/reburner affect. While I
don't have the mathematical ability to explain it any better than
this....I can tell you that it really does work. <br>I fear that too
much complexity has blinded the issue......so I say keep it simple
stovers (the kiss principle) use less pollute less. It certainly can't
hurt to burn less of whatever fuel is used and burning it hotter is the
paramount. I simply created equipment which does both.<br>I hope this helps you understand more of what I have been trying to communicate all along.<br><br> Thanks again, Roger and Bridget Lehet. <br><br><div><hr id="stopSpelling">From: tmiles@trmiles.com<br>To: stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 06:09:49 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Fire Stump / stump-incuts<br><br>
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</style><div class="ecxWordSection1"><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D">Roger,</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D">You have probably discovered that you have landed in a nest of several hundred vigorous and rigorous cooking stoves enthusiasts from around the world. This discussion has been rolling for more than 15 years and includes everything from shop tinkering to substantial field experience. </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D">Have you been in contact with Peter Scott at Burn Design Lab on Vashon? <a href="http://www.burndesignlab.org/" target="_blank">http://www.burndesignlab.org/</a> They are about 10 minutes north of you just off the Vashon highway. Peter can show you what our challenges are and how we approach them. We don’t have densified fuels like bricks or fire logs to work with. We have miscellaneous and low quality fuels including everything from corncobs to coal. (I have burned Washington coal.) We have to deal with the smoke and gases all during the “once you get up to temperature” time. So you may have found good performance at a peak temperature but stove emissions and efficiency performance has to follow the whole cooking experience from the time you light the fire. We are concerned with fuel efficiency but also with health effects of particulates and gases. There are several gigbytes of information on the website that we maintain to complement this discussion <a href="http://www.stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D">Puget Sound has been a rich source of ideas and development for improved cooking stoves, solar cookers and retained heat cookers. Each year in January about 150 of us from around the world gather at Northwest University in Kirkland, WA, for the ETHOS conference. You will find much information in the conference proceedings. <a href="http://www.vrac.iastate.edu/ethos/proceedings.php" target="_blank">http://www.vrac.iastate.edu/ethos/proceedings.php</a> Art Donnelly’s Seachar.org project is in Seattle, developing biochar making stoves for developing countries. Organizations in Mount Vernon have developed sophisticated pellet burning stoves for developed, and now developing, countries. Larry Dobson on Whidbey Island has developed stove concepts for many applications for more than 30 years. Masonry heaters and cookers have been developed on Lopez Island and installed in Central America. A couple of us on Shaw Island are heavily engaged in improved cooking stoves and heating devices. </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D">Your heating device must, of course, be certified by EPA if you intend to sell it in the US, Canada, Europe, NZ, etc. Testing methods and standards are easily found and there are certified labs in the region that to do that work. New ASTM and EPA wood fired boiler standards also apply. These are often discussed on <a href="mailto:woodheat@yahoo.com">woodheat@yahoo.com</a> <a href="http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/woodheat/" target="_blank">http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/woodheat/</a> There is an interesting, high efficiency, cordwood boiler being developed now in Seattle. </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D">There is much to learn from this group but we work on clear descriptions, detailed photos and carefully recorded data. We discuss a wide range of technologies from basic flames to industrial applications but they all relate to clean and efficient combustion. </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D">Thanks for your participation</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D">Regards,</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D">Tom Miles</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D">Owner</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:stoves@bioenergylists.org">stoves@bioenergylists.org</a></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.stoves.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">www.stoves.bioenergylists.org</a></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D"> </span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Tahoma','sans-serif'"><br><br></span><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:'Tahoma','sans-serif'"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Tahoma','sans-serif'">Jan 12 2011 <em><span style="font-family:'Tahoma','sans-serif'">in <a href="http://threesheetsnw.com/blog/archives/category/news-features/business-of-boating" title="View all posts in Business of Boating" target="_blank">Business of Boating</a> by <a href="http://threesheetsnw.com/members/deborahbach/" title="Visit Deborah Bach’s website" target="_blank">Deborah Bach</a></span></em></span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Tahoma','sans-serif'">1Share</span></p></div><div id="ecxattachment_14576"><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Tahoma','sans-serif'"><a href="http://threesheetsnw.com/files/2011/01/Rogerheater.jpg" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration:none"><img id="ecx_x0000_i1026" src="http://threesheetsnw.com/files/2011/01/Rogerheater-300x225.jpg" border="0" height="225" width="300"></span></a></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Tahoma','sans-serif'">Roger Lehet with a prototype of the stove he spent about six months developing, which is now being manufactured for sale.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Tahoma','sans-serif'"></span></p></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________
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