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Has anyone tried to use a fuel injection system to "spray" bursts of finely atomized Glycerine into a two stage burn chamber (gasifier/reburner bottom fired) and are there any results I could find out about?<br>thank you...<br><br><div>> From: ipcipc@mweb.co.za<br>> To: stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 12:07:14 +0200<br>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 12, Issue 13<br>> <br>> @Crispin Message: 4 Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 23:40:34 -0400<br>> <br>> Glycerine is a glut on the market because it is ~50% of the plant carbon<br>> that goes into biodiesel. It doesn't burn very well at all and is<br>> hygroscopic to boot. However, I found some recent work that it can be used<br>> directly as diesel fuel with minor mods to the engine to preheat the air.<br>> It's rather low energy, but for a cheap waste fuel that's no drawback.<br>> <br>> Prof Philip Lloyd<br>> Energy Institute<br>> Cape Peninsula University of Technology<br>> PO Box 652, Cape Town 8000<br>> Tel:021 460 4216<br>> Fax:021 460 3828<br>> Cell: 083 441 5247<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> -----Original Message-----<br>> From: stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> [mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of<br>> stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> Sent: 08 August 2011 06:52<br>> To: stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> Subject: Stoves Digest, Vol 12, Issue 13<br>> <br>> Send Stoves mailing list submissions to<br>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> <br>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>> <br>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists<br>> .org<br>> <br>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>> stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> <br>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>> stoves-owner@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> <br>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than<br>> "Re: Contents of Stoves digest..."<br>> <br>> <br>> Today's Topics:<br>> <br>> 1. Re: Jatropha and its future (Fireside Hearth)<br>> 2. Re: Jatropha and its future (Anand Karve)<br>> 3. Re: Jatropha and its future (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)<br>> 4. Re: Jatropha and its future (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)<br>> 5. Re: Jatropha and its future (Fireside Hearth)<br>> 6. Re: Chimney Chula (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)<br>> 7. Re: Jatropha and its future (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)<br>> 8. Re: Jatropha and its future (Anand Karve)<br>> 9. Re: institutional rocket stoves (Larry Winiarski)<br>> <br>> <br>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> <br>> Message: 1<br>> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 13:23:00 -0700<br>> From: Fireside Hearth <firesidehearthvashon@hotmail.com><br>> To: <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future<br>> Message-ID: <blu125-w323673D36BDC4E2F10E23C33E0@phx.gbl><br>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>> <br>> <br>> Interesting idea........Are the any records kept on how cleanly and or how<br>> much maintenance might be involved. Example.....corn feed stoves have allot<br>> of klinkering due to the sugar content if I understand correctly. We might<br>> be able to utilize more of these fuels than I realize at this point as I<br>> have not had enough time to test these things out. Our focus has had to stay<br>> more narrow than I would like due to the "business side" of our growth. I<br>> did for a while mess with burning Glycerine from bio diesel manufacturing.<br>> Althoe I have not dismissed this avenue I do feel it is a messy process. The<br>> glycerine heats up and "melts" much like paraffin wax and could become a<br>> fire hazard. I am interested as I am coming to a point of less business and<br>> more inventing to try alternative fuel sources......any ideas???<br>> Thank you R&B <br>> <br>> From: crispinpigott@gmail.com<br>> To: stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 14:36:59 -0400<br>> Subject: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> Dear FriendsI am not sure how many stove are being worked on as Jatropha<br>> seed or oil or cake burners, but my understanding was the main thrust was to<br>> put to use some of the leftovers from biofuel production, especially that<br>> was the focus in Tanzania.It seems those farmers who invested in Jatropha<br>> production lost about $65 per ha<br>> http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/es201943v so my question is whether or<br>> not there is much point in working on (perhaps) whole seed stoves. Perhaps<br>> if the J-oil industry suffers a quick death there will still be a meaningful<br>> supply of oily seed fuel that can be burned relatively easily with a decent<br>> performance and controllability. At least until they go back to sunflower<br>> which looks a lot more promising.Has anyone made a sunflower seed burning<br>> stove? The oil runs up to 49% on some varieties.Always looking for new<br>> ideas?RegardsCrispin _______________________________________________<br>> Stoves mailing list<br>> <br>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> <br>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists<br>> .org<br>> <br>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/ <br>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> URL:<br>> <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/a<br>> ttachments/20110807/7cad3115/attachment-0001.html><br>> <br>> ------------------------------<br>> <br>> Message: 2<br>> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 11:28:33 +0800<br>> From: Anand Karve <adkarve@gmail.com><br>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future<br>> Message-ID:<br>> <CACPy7SesHn=NWOpzsxUrmfO9hpA+BSbCNO7gh-HPK1L00UPQiQ@mail.gmail.com><br>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252<br>> <br>> Dear Crispin,<br>> we have in India castor hybrids that can yield upto 5 tons of seed or<br>> 2.5 ton oil per ha. Only Malaysian oil palm can outyield hybrid castor.<br>> Castor oil acts as a purgative if one gulps it directly, but if used in<br>> cooking or frying, whereby it gets mixed with other type of food, it loses<br>> its purgative effect and it is digested by the human system like any other<br>> vegetable oil. Castor oilcake is however highly toxic because of the<br>> presence of ricin in it, but it is a great feedstock for producing biogas.<br>> Yours<br>> A.D.Karve<br>> <br>> On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 2:36 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott<br>> <crispinpigott@gmail.com> wrote:<br>> > Dear Friends<br>> ><br>> > I am not sure how many stove are being worked on as Jatropha seed or <br>> > oil or cake burners, but my understanding was the main thrust was to <br>> > put to use some of the leftovers from biofuel production, especially <br>> > that was the focus in Tanzania.<br>> ><br>> > It seems those farmers who invested in Jatropha production lost about <br>> > $65 per ha http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/es201943v so my <br>> > question is whether or not there is much point in working on (perhaps) <br>> > whole seed stoves. Perhaps if the J-oil industry suffers a quick death <br>> > there will still be a meaningful supply of oily seed fuel that? can be <br>> > burned relatively easily with a decent performance and <br>> > controllability. At least until they go back to sunflower which looks a<br>> lot more promising.<br>> ><br>> > Has anyone made a sunflower seed burning stove? The oil runs up to 49% <br>> > on some varieties.<br>> ><br>> > Always looking for new ideas?<br>> ><br>> > Regards<br>> ><br>> > Crispin<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > Stoves mailing list<br>> ><br>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address <br>> > stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> ><br>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page <br>> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenerg<br>> > ylists.org<br>> ><br>> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, ?News and Information see our web site:<br>> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> --<br>> ***<br>> Dr. A.D. Karve<br>> President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br>> <br>> *Please change my email address in your records to: adkarve@gmail.com *<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> ------------------------------<br>> <br>> Message: 3<br>> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 23:33:28 -0400<br>> From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott@gmail.com><br>> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"<br>> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future<br>> Message-ID: <112c01cc557b$f11bc890$d35359b0$@gmail.com><br>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>> <br>> Dear Dr AD<br>> <br>> I was under the impression that the castor oil had to be de-toxified at some<br>> level. There is a product called Covo Oil, a castor cooking oil, that has<br>> been treated, we were told. Not so?<br>> <br>> Interesting. The article I linked says in a couple of places that Jatropha<br>> has not been 'domesticated' with the result that the yields are erratic.<br>> Strange, that.<br>> <br>> I can't think of anything close to those oil yields. The best I know of for<br>> sunflower is 49% variety but it is not a high mass one. The heavier<br>> yielding have 47% so more total oil but still, 2 tons would be good on dry<br>> land.<br>> <br>> I take it that the castor is not irrigated, correct?<br>> <br>> The cake is 50% of the crop so 2.5 tons gives how much biogas? And how much<br>> 'leftovers'?<br>> <br>> Thanks<br>> Crispin<br>> <br>> <br>> -----Original Message-----<br>> <br>> Dear Crispin,<br>> we have in India castor hybrids that can yield upto 5 tons of seed or<br>> 2.5 ton oil per ha. Only Malaysian oil palm can outyield hybrid castor.<br>> Castor oil acts as a purgative if one gulps it directly, but if used in<br>> cooking or frying, whereby it gets mixed with other type of food, it loses<br>> its purgative effect and it is digested by the human system like any other<br>> vegetable oil. Castor oilcake is however highly toxic because of the<br>> presence of ricin in it, but it is a great feedstock for producing biogas.<br>> Yours<br>> A.D.Karve<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> ------------------------------<br>> <br>> Message: 4<br>> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 23:40:34 -0400<br>> From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott@gmail.com><br>> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"<br>> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future<br>> Message-ID: <112d01cc557c$eeb6ba00$cc242e00$@gmail.com><br>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>> <br>> Dear Roger<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> Alex English can comment on the corn burning, but I think it is from ash<br>> melting that you get the clinkering. Sugar burns really well at a low<br>> temperature.<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> With all crops, there are many tons that are spoiled for various reasons.<br>> Therefore there is always a market for them. Aflatoxin (and zearalanone)<br>> contamination is a problem in some countries and it would be good if it were<br>> burned rather than fed to slightly more tolerant animals. That stuff is bad<br>> news. <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> Mouldy maize is usually mixed with good maize to meet some local standard<br>> but still, there is a lot that can't be used for food or feed. So, into the<br>> fire. Rancid grains, rotten wheat, mouldy oats - we should turn them into<br>> fuel as it is biomass and already pelletized!<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> The advantage of using glycerine is that it doesn't spill well and kids are<br>> unlikely to drink it. Like gelled alcohol, it melts at just the right<br>> temperature and could me a good fuel. Could you get a smell-less burn? That<br>> would be an indication the burn was good for a start.<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> There is a wax burning stove developed in South Africa and Sasol (Sasolwax<br>> in an earlier name) was interested in it generally, and developing their own<br>> stove commercially, which I have never seen in the wild. There is a lot of<br>> leftover wax from various industrial processes, just as there are many<br>> alcohols left over from sugar making - like 100 types! Into the fire!<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> Regards<br>> <br>> Crispin<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> ++++<br>> <br>> Interesting idea........Are the any records kept on how cleanly and or how<br>> much maintenance might be involved. Example.....corn feed stoves have allot<br>> of klinkering due to the sugar content if I understand correctly. We might<br>> be able to utilize more of these fuels than I realize at this point as I<br>> have not had enough time to test these things out. Our focus has had to stay<br>> more narrow than I would like due to the "business side" of our growth. I<br>> did for a while mess with burning Glycerine from bio diesel manufacturing.<br>> Althoe I have not dismissed this avenue I do feel it is a messy process. The<br>> glycerine heats up and "melts" much like paraffin wax and could become a<br>> fire hazard. I am interested as I am coming to a point of less business and<br>> more inventing to try alternative fuel sources......any ideas???<br>> Thank you R&B <br>> <br>> _____ <br>> <br>> From: crispinpigott@gmail.com<br>> To: stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 14:36:59 -0400<br>> Subject: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future<br>> <br>> Dear Friends<br>> <br>> I am not sure how many stove are being worked on as Jatropha seed or oil or<br>> cake burners, but my understanding was the main thrust was to put to use<br>> some of the leftovers from biofuel production, especially that was the focus<br>> in Tanzania.<br>> <br>> It seems those farmers who invested in Jatropha production lost about $65<br>> per ha http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/es201943v so my question is<br>> whether or not there is much point in working on (perhaps) whole seed<br>> stoves. Perhaps if the J-oil industry suffers a quick death there will still<br>> be a meaningful supply of oily seed fuel that can be burned relatively<br>> easily with a decent performance and controllability. At least until they go<br>> back to sunflower which looks a lot more promising.<br>> <br>> Has anyone made a sunflower seed burning stove? The oil runs up to 49% on<br>> some varieties.<br>> <br>> Always looking for new ideas.<br>> <br>> Regards<br>> <br>> Crispin<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send<br>> a Message to the list, use the email address stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists<br>> .org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/<br>> <br>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> URL:<br>> <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/a<br>> ttachments/20110807/0c0d0f2d/attachment-0001.html><br>> <br>> ------------------------------<br>> <br>> Message: 5<br>> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 21:19:48 -0700<br>> From: Fireside Hearth <firesidehearthvashon@hotmail.com><br>> To: <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future<br>> Message-ID: <BLU125-W6CB7441F49D537DFA9F0AC3210@phx.gbl><br>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>> <br>> <br>> Thank you Crispin....<br>> <br>> These are all great ideas! Do you have any gut level sense of<br>> what downsides there could be with regard to emission? would I find these to<br>> be "fairly clean" fuel options? The glycerine did produce a scent/smoke free<br>> burn once temperatures got high enough, however getting there was both<br>> smelly and irritating. My delivery system I believe will need to advance to<br>> (possibly) a fuel injector, unless something less complicated (oil drip) can<br>> be thought up with any reliability. I actually started this project as a<br>> pellet stove with a simple 12 volt auger and timing block system. I could go<br>> back to that to push grains, seeds, or pitts....even dung! The electrical<br>> demand would be covered by solar, and at some time I wish to experiment<br>> further with thermocoupling the stove for a truly off grid, self powered<br>> pellet stove. I am saving these posts which get me thinking so once my<br>> current project is underway I can revisit them. With the level of expertise<br>> represented here many things are exciting possibilities......this is one<br>> e-mail I will save for the near future and look for more information on as I<br>> develop new ideas. Thank you very much.<br>> Roger <br>> <br>> From: crispinpigott@gmail.com<br>> To: stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 23:40:34 -0400<br>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> Dear Roger Alex English can comment on the corn burning, but I think it is<br>> from ash melting that you get the clinkering. Sugar burns really well at a<br>> low temperature. With all crops, there are many tons that are spoiled for<br>> various reasons. Therefore there is always a market for them. Aflatoxin (and<br>> zearalanone) contamination is a problem in some countries and it would be<br>> good if it were burned rather than fed to slightly more tolerant animals.<br>> That stuff is bad news. Mouldy maize is usually mixed with good maize to<br>> meet some local standard but still, there is a lot that can?t be used for<br>> food or feed. So, into the fire. Rancid grains, rotten wheat, mouldy oats ?<br>> we should turn them into fuel as it is biomass and already pelletized! The<br>> advantage of using glycerine is that it doesn?t spill well and kids are<br>> unlikely to drink it. Like gelled alcohol, it melts at just the right<br>> temperature and could me a good fuel. Could you get a smell-less burn? That<br>> would be an indication the burn was good for a start. There is a wax burning<br>> stove developed in South Africa and Sasol (Sasolwax in an earlier name) was<br>> interested in it generally, and developing their own stove commercially,<br>> which I have never seen in the wild. There is a lot of leftover wax from<br>> various industrial processes, just as there are many alcohols left over from<br>> sugar making ? like 100 types! Into the fire! RegardsCrispin<br>> ++++Interesting idea........Are the any records kept on how cleanly and or<br>> how much maintenance might be involved. Example.....corn feed stoves have<br>> allot of klinkering due to the sugar content if I understand correctly. We<br>> might be able to utilize more of these fuels than I realize at this point as<br>> I have not had enough time to test these things out. Our focus has had to<br>> stay more narrow than I would like due to the "business side" of our growth.<br>> I did for a while mess with burning Glycerine from bio diesel manufacturing.<br>> Althoe I have not dismissed this avenue I do feel it is a messy process. The<br>> glycerine heats up and "melts" much like paraffin wax and could become a<br>> fire hazard. I am interested as I am coming to a point of less business and<br>> more inventing to try alternative fuel sources......any ideas???<br>> Thank you R&B From: crispinpigott@gmail.com<br>> To: stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 14:36:59 -0400<br>> Subject: [Stoves] Jatropha and its futureDear FriendsI am not sure how many<br>> stove are being worked on as Jatropha seed or oil or cake burners, but my<br>> understanding was the main thrust was to put to use some of the leftovers<br>> from biofuel production, especially that was the focus in Tanzania.It seems<br>> those farmers who invested in Jatropha production lost about $65 per ha<br>> http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/es201943v so my question is whether or<br>> not there is much point in working on (perhaps) whole seed stoves. Perhaps<br>> if the J-oil industry suffers a quick death there will still be a meaningful<br>> supply of oily seed fuel that can be burned relatively easily with a decent<br>> performance and controllability. At least until they go back to sunflower<br>> which looks a lot more promising.Has anyone made a sunflower seed burning<br>> stove? The oil runs up to 49% on some varieties.Always looking for new<br>> ideas?RegardsCrispin _______________________________________________ Stoves<br>> mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings<br>> use the web page<br>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists<br>> .org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/<br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Stoves mailing list<br>> <br>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> <br>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists<br>> .org<br>> <br>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/ <br>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> URL:<br>> <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/a<br>> ttachments/20110807/75eb9026/attachment-0001.html><br>> <br>> ------------------------------<br>> <br>> Message: 6<br>> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 00:25:21 -0400<br>> From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott@gmail.com><br>> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"<br>> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Chimney Chula<br>> Message-ID: <114d01cc5583$3108d180$931a7480$@gmail.com><br>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>> <br>> Dear Xavier<br>> <br>> >Do you know any stove or any way to build a stove which would be small,<br>> even if it needs to deliver high power to cook on big pots? <br>> <br>> You can build the stove to one side and pipe the hot gases into the side and<br>> under the pot, exiting on the other side into a chimney. This, in essence,<br>> is what the modified Mongolian coal stoves do when heating water (for space<br>> heating).<br>> <br>> Cooking height is very important to many cultures. Fan stoves hold a lot of<br>> promise getting the height down because you are able to produce a compact,<br>> intense flame.<br>> <br>> >Have you faced user acceptance issues because of the stove size ?<br>> <br>> Nearly all stoves developers working in India have been facing that<br>> challenge. It seems to be a bigger problem there than in many other places<br>> which are more interested in looks, power and 'pride of ownership'.<br>> <br>> Many really inexpensive stoves are short because they are simple and don't<br>> have much flame space, and they use little material, but they could often be<br>> shortened further.<br>> <br>> The JIKO is not as short as it could be - it only needs a small amount of<br>> space for ash and air under the grate. Fashion is probably has as much to do<br>> with it as blindly imitating our fathers.<br>> <br>> Regards<br>> Crispin<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> ------------------------------<br>> <br>> Message: 7<br>> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 00:35:46 -0400<br>> From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott@gmail.com><br>> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"<br>> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future<br>> Message-ID: <115401cc5584$a5b86170$f1292450$@gmail.com><br>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>> <br>> Dear Roger<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> The glycerine-as-fuel is interesting. There is a lot of glycerine produced<br>> in the oil pumping business - it sticks to the inside of the pipes. What<br>> happen to it these days? Vaseline was developed to get rid of it at a<br>> profit!<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> If it is cheap (might not be) it can be 'canned' like ethanol gel. Ethanol<br>> does not have a very high heat content (hence the poor mileage cars<br>> currently get compared with real gasoline). Watered-down ethanol is pretty<br>> crummy. James Robinson at the SeTAR Centre has seem some at 18 MJ/Litre or<br>> even less. Prof Philip Lloyd was running a stove on a fuel that had so much<br>> water in it, it was condensing on the underside of the pot and dripped so<br>> much it extinguished the fire!! Ha ha!<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> So what is the heat content of glycerine? How much does it cost? Where does<br>> it come from? Is there much available? What is the melting temperature? <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> Philip: what is the vapour pressure and so on? Have you ever tried burning<br>> it? [Philip reads this list.]<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> Most alcohol burning stoves are terrible - that is my biased assessment.<br>> They are usually choked to death near the evaporation zone and have very<br>> short flame spaces, followed by too much air supply, yielding a smelly burn<br>> - smelling like partly burned gel compound. We test quite a number of them.<br>> There is a belief that if the fuel is ethanol, the emissions are inherently<br>> low, which is not true. The emissions are potentially low because the fuel<br>> is usually pretty good, but emissions are produced by the stove+fuel<br>> combination. If the burner is poorly constructed, it's gonna smell.<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> You know those little pots of flame under the vegetables at the restaurant<br>> buffet? Terrible combustion efficiency. Lotsa CO.<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> Regards<br>> <br>> Crispin<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> From: stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> [mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Fireside<br>> Hearth<br>> Sent: 08 August 2011 00:20<br>> To: stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> Thank you Crispin....<br>> <br>> These are all great ideas! Do you have any gut level sense of<br>> what downsides there could be with regard to emission? would I find these to<br>> be "fairly clean" fuel options? The glycerine did produce a scent/smoke free<br>> burn once temperatures got high enough, however getting there was both<br>> smelly and irritating. My delivery system I believe will need to advance to<br>> (possibly) a fuel injector, unless something less complicated (oil drip) can<br>> be thought up with any reliability. I actually started this project as a<br>> pellet stove with a simple 12 volt auger and timing block system. I could go<br>> back to that to push grains, seeds, or pitts....even dung! The electrical<br>> demand would be covered by solar, and at some time I wish to experiment<br>> further with thermocoupling the stove for a truly off grid, self powered<br>> pellet stove. I am saving these posts which get me thinking so once my<br>> current project is underway I can revisit them. With the level of expertise<br>> represented here many things are exciting possibilities......this is one<br>> e-mail I will save for the near future and look for more information on as I<br>> develop new ideas. Thank you very much.<br>> Roger <br>> <br>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> URL:<br>> <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/a<br>> ttachments/20110808/0cde4441/attachment-0001.html><br>> <br>> ------------------------------<br>> <br>> Message: 8<br>> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 12:44:46 +0800<br>> From: Anand Karve <adkarve@gmail.com><br>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future<br>> Message-ID:<br>> <CACPy7SfNLoXaDuCHCHHqYZWkPFXrV0p5h6r+wjrvrXMdCKyqKQ@mail.gmail.com><br>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>> <br>> Dear Crispin,<br>> Because of lack of plant breeding input, Jatropha yields only about 1 ton<br>> seed per ha and the oil % in the seed is only 30%. Indian farmers had been<br>> growing castor for at least 2000 years, and they have conducted a lot of<br>> selection and breeding to develop many high yielding varieties. The main<br>> ingredient of castor oil is ricinoleic acid, which irritates the mucous<br>> membranes of the stomach and intestine, which then secrete fluids to wash<br>> the irritation off. That is the reason of the purgative effect. If castor<br>> oil is mixed with other food, the ricinoleic acid is diluted and owing to<br>> longer residence time in the stomach and intestine, it gets digested. Castor<br>> oil cake gets completely digested in the biogas plant and all of it gets<br>> converted into biogas. I do not have reliable figures, but I think that 1 kg<br>> of castor oil cake would yield about 1000 litres biogas.<br>> Yours<br>> A.D.Karve<br>> <br>> On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 11:33 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott<br>> <crispinpigott@gmail.com> wrote:<br>> > Dear Dr AD<br>> ><br>> > I was under the impression that the castor oil had to be de-toxified <br>> > at some level. There is a product called Covo Oil, a castor cooking <br>> > oil, that has been treated, we were told. Not so?<br>> ><br>> > Interesting. The article I linked says in a couple of places that <br>> > Jatropha has not been 'domesticated' with the result that the yields are<br>> erratic.<br>> > Strange, that.<br>> ><br>> > I can't think of anything close to those oil yields. The best I know <br>> > of for sunflower is 49% variety but it is not a high mass one. ?The <br>> > heavier yielding have 47% so more total oil but still, 2 tons would be <br>> > good on dry land.<br>> ><br>> > I take it that the castor is not irrigated, correct?<br>> ><br>> > The cake is 50% of the crop so 2.5 tons gives how much biogas? And how <br>> > much 'leftovers'?<br>> ><br>> > Thanks<br>> > Crispin<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > -----Original Message-----<br>> ><br>> > Dear Crispin,<br>> > we have in India castor hybrids that can yield upto 5 tons of seed or<br>> > 2.5 ton oil per ha. Only Malaysian oil palm can outyield hybrid castor.<br>> > Castor oil acts as a purgative if one gulps it directly, but if used <br>> > in cooking or frying, whereby it gets mixed with other type of food, <br>> > it loses its purgative effect and it is digested by the human system <br>> > like any other vegetable oil. Castor oilcake is however highly toxic <br>> > because of the presence of ricin in it, but it is a great feedstock for<br>> producing biogas.<br>> > Yours<br>> > A.D.Karve<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > Stoves mailing list<br>> ><br>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address <br>> > stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> ><br>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page <br>> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenerg<br>> > ylists.org<br>> ><br>> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, ?News and Information see our web site:<br>> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/<br>> ><br>> ><br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> --<br>> ***<br>> Dr. A.D. Karve<br>> President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br>> <br>> *Please change my email address in your records to: adkarve@gmail.com *<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> ------------------------------<br>> <br>> Message: 9<br>> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 21:55:26 -0700<br>> From: "Larry Winiarski" <larryw@gotsky.com><br>> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"<br>> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] institutional rocket stoves<br>> Message-ID: <4324D3276D584812B9385E99B781F060@larryspc><br>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";<br>> reply-type=original<br>> <br>> Dear Xavier<br>> <br>> Sometimes , where they have dirt floor, I sink part of the institutional<br>> rocket stove into the ground and use a sloped feed or vertical feed . In<br>> thedown feed, the combustion camber is then J shaped rather then L shaped<br>> and I use a horizontal tile or brick to hold up the sticks and control the<br>> air gap so that the air goes down the sticks to cool them and blow the<br>> flames into the tunnel. One can also dig a short trench in fron of the<br>> sticks and use a moveable big brick or block to hold the sticks vertical. <br>> One can also take this block out of the way and feed the sticks horizontal<br>> or clean out the ash.<br>> <br>> God Bless<br>> <br>> Larry Winiarski<br>> <br>> ----- Original Message -----<br>> From: "Xavier Brandao" <xvr.brandao@gmail.com><br>> To: <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2011 5:18 AM<br>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Chimney Chula<br>> <br>> <br>> > Crispin and stovers,<br>> ><br>> > "An advantage (for India) is the very low cooking height": I think it is <br>> > not<br>> > only for India, we are facing this question at the moment in Benin. We <br>> > made<br>> > an institutional rocket stove for the restaurant of the main university.<br>> > They are testing it at the moment, if they like it, all universities in<br>> > Benin could have these stoves. The first thing the cooks said when they <br>> > saw<br>> > the stove was : "it is too high". Men and women in South-Benin are rather<br>> > short-sized. The stoves they use traditionally are very short. They can<br>> > stand up, using a big spoon with a long handle.<br>> > We got this remark from other places, but people accepted, liked and used<br>> > the stoves anyway. But it is the first time we get such "strong" <br>> > criticism,<br>> > almost opposition. I said they would have to try it for a week or more, <br>> > and<br>> > then give us their remarks. End-users of the equipment often fear they <br>> > will<br>> > be imposed decision by people working above them and sitting in office.<br>> ><br>> > The rocket stove combustion chamber grows with the pot size. So does the <br>> > pot<br>> > skirt. In the restaurant, they use only 50 kilos round pots, the biggest<br>> > ones I have ever seen. The stove we made had to be tall : perhaps 1.10 -<br>> > 1.20 meter high. It was one of the tallest we ever made. The women said <br>> > they<br>> > would burn their arms on the hot skirt, and on the top of the pot, when <br>> > they<br>> > will reach food in the bottom of the pot.<br>> > They asked us to reduce the size, we said we couldn't since it was due to<br>> > the technology, and that a shorter stove would be less clean and <br>> > efficient.<br>> > We'll see in one week how they liked the stoves.<br>> ><br>> > Traditional stoves are convenient to use, but as you said they make "not<br>> > enough flame space to complete the combustion well."<br>> > All the institutional stoves I know (rocket, Lion stove, Esperanza stove,<br>> > LEGO stove) and some other wood stove (Justa stove, Lorena stove) seem all<br>> > to be working on the same principle: a combustion chamber tall enough for<br>> > the fire to burn properly, then the shape can vary. If the pot is big, so<br>> > must be the stove.<br>> ><br>> > Do you know any stove or any way to build a stove which would be small, <br>> > even<br>> > if it needs to deliver high power to cook on big pots? Have you faced user<br>> > acceptance issues because of the stove size ?<br>> ><br>> > Cheers,<br>> ><br>> > Xavier<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > -----Message d'origine-----<br>> ><br>> > ------------------------------<br>> ><br>> > Message: 4<br>> > Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 09:46:14 -0400<br>> > From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott@gmail.com><br>> > To: "Stoves" <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> > Subject: [Stoves] Chimney Chula<br>> > Message-ID: <101001cc5376$0d935ef0$28ba1cd0$@gmail.com><br>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>> ><br>> > Dear Friends<br>> ><br>> > http://www.designtoimprovelife.dk/index.php?option=com_content<br>> ><br>> <http://www.designtoimprovelife.dk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article<br>> > &id=81&Itemid=63> &view=article&id=81&Itemid=63<br>> ><br>> > It gets some recognition. Looks like a combination of an Esperanza stove<br>> > (small Lion with side-fed air) and a Lorena with pre-cast parts. Metal <br>> > grate<br>> > used. I like that! It gives all air preheating.<br>> ><br>> > An advantage (for India) is the very low cooking height though there is<br>> > obviously not enough flame space to complete the combustion well.<br>> ><br>> > Good looking.<br>> ><br>> > Regards<br>> ><br>> > Crispin<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > Stoves mailing list<br>> ><br>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> > stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> ><br>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> ><br>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists<br>> .org<br>> ><br>> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/<br>> ><br>> > <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> ------------------------------<br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Stoves mailing list<br>> <br>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> <br>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists<br>> .org<br>> <br>> <br>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/<br>> <br>> <br>> End of Stoves Digest, Vol 12, Issue 13<br>> **************************************<br>> <br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Stoves mailing list<br>> <br>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> <br>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> <br>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/<br>> <br></div> </div></body>
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