Frans,<br><br>You say that <br><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">K transport is not called gasform but
migration as airosol particles .</span></font>smog alike. <br></p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><br></span></font>Does this explain the presence of black soot in the syngas?<br>
The black soot disappears when coffee husks are gasified along with rice hulls.<br>In the reactor, does K in the coffee husk react with silica in the rice hull to form potassium silicate?<br>Does this explain the disappearance of the soot?<br>
<br>Thanks.<br>Paul<br><br><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><br></span></font><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 5:35 AM, Frans Peeters <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:peetersfrans@telenet.be">peetersfrans@telenet.be</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<u></u>
<u></u>
<div link="blue" vlink="blue" lang="NL">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Paul,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> You start thinking of an analysis
figure in feriliser ! <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Expressed </span></b>in
an <b><span style="font-weight:bold">old way</span></b> : K2O. Not the real
state !!<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Potasium in general : ash 10-20 % but
comming from 5% ash in the biofuel .You end up with 10%from 5% =0,5 % from the
fuel ,as exemple .<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Fe2O3 stays Fe2O3 but K2Obecomes fast KOH
with H2O from the air! Hygroscopic at room temperature ..<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">K into fuel wil go over KOH to K2CO3 or
stronger SO4—PO4--- Cl- F -SiO3 – salts if those radicals are present
..<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">K transport is not called gasform but
migration as airosol particles .<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">smog alike. Not K2O but KOH or KOH.xH2O
under 400° C<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Now you got the better info for 400-800° C
(My fusion =400 ° C )<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">But mind the KOH at your 170° C is a
flame extigwisher .. Fe2O3 is not ….<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">KOH in the flame explodes and gives your
horizontal flame splitting .<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Suggestion :aspiration of the CO2 off gas
in a fumehood ( by 800° C ) plus water nebulation afterwards wil recuperate
the valuable potasium.and protect your lungs and nose .<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Frans<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
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<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">Van:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">
<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Namens </span></b>Paul Olivier<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Verzonden:</span></b> zondag 16 oktober 2011
2:17<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Aan:</span></b> <u></u>Discussion
of biomass cooking stoves<u></u><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Onderwerp:</span></b> Re: [Stoves] why does
coffee husk biochar smell like urine?</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Frans,<br>
<br>
When subjected to temperatures greater than <u></u>350 C<u></u>, <br>
are you saying that K2O melts but does not vaporize?<br>
Are you saying that we end up with melted K2O?<br>
If the original coffee husks contains 36% to 38%<br>
then the final biochar must contain at least twice that amount.<br>
If this is correct, then coffee husk biochar must be quite valuable,<br>
not only as a soil amendment but also as a fertilizer.<br>
Surely this cannot be right.<br>
<br>
The coffee husk contains some sort of oily substance<br>
that begins to volatilize at temperatures as low as <u></u>170 C<u></u>.<br>
When gasified it produces a lot of black soot.<br>
I tried many burner designs in the last few weeks to get rid of the soot and to
turn orange flames into blue.<br>
Supplying hot premixed secondary air does not effectively consume this soot.<br>
Sometimes it makes things worse.<br>
<br>
A few days ago I cheated.<br>
I mixed coffee husks and rice hulls in equal volumes.<br>
(Note that the coffee husk has a bulk density of 180 kg/m3,<br>
while the rice husk has a bulk density of about 100 kg/m3.)<br>
The flame at the base was blue and white.<br>
This is the first time I saw the color white in the gasification of coffee
husks.<br>
As the flame rose, it split into two parts:<br>
one part vertical and the other part more horizontal.<br>
The vertical part was blue/white and the more horizontal part was orange.<br>
But there were no streaks of black within the orange part of the flame and no
visible soot.<br>
<br>
The gasifier that I used looked like this:<br>
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier%20Drawings%20PDF/001%20-%20150%20Gasifier%20Assembly.pdf" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier%20Drawings%20PDF/001%20-%20150%20Gasifier%20Assembly.pdf</a><br>
Note the burner design: <br>
it is a Belonio burner with two rings of burner holes, together with a burner
housing.<br>
This burner design gives by far the best result.<br>
Secondary air is sucked up between the housing and the burner.<br>
It then moves from vertical to horizontal,<br>
and from here it hits the two rings of holes that are offset from one another.<br>
<br>
The best result, of course, is with 100% rice husks.<br>
With the current burner design, the flame is totally blue right from the very
beginning.<br>
<br>
When I mixed rice hulls with coffee husks (half/half by volume),<br>
not only does most of the soot disappear, <br>
but the burn is quite consistent and steady from beginning to end.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 5:35 AM, Frans Peeters <<a href="mailto:peetersfrans@telenet.be" target="_blank">peetersfrans@telenet.be</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div link="blue" vlink="blue">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Dear Paul ,</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> I did many times fusions with pure KOH .</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">At 350° C it melts and is very aggesive to dissolve ceramics Al2O3
and SiC powders . (Diamond recup. )</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">It is verry verry hygroscopic and the hydroxyde airosols with
water in the air gives your nose sense alcalic .</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Your brain makes the link to urine . but not the real potasium make
it .</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">It goes not into gas but sputers airosols has a special creep
effect out of a creuset .! Even after cooling .</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Also a battery and fuel cel with KOH . It creeps in a
isolated conductor for <u></u>20 cm<u></u>
after years ,and destroys manny apparati .</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">KOH Is colourless but Nickel gives yellow.salts .</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">It does not become K2O2 becouse to destroy SiC we must ad Na2O2 to
oxydize the carbide .</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Potasium is to measure with flame spectro 440 nm purple colour in a
hydrogen flame . (Sodium =yellow . Cupper =green Sr =red</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Sorry ,I drink no coffe !
But have a
friend who drinks pee ….</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Regards</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Frans</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Christa,<br>
<br>
Do you have any idea why coffee husk biochar smells like urine?<br>
<br>
I just read that coffee husks contain 36% to 38% K2O.<br>
This supposedly accounts for the low melting point of its ash.<br>
That its ash has a low melting point makes sense to me,<br>
since, if I leave the fan on a bit too long after the gasification cycle is
finished,<br>
I see a stony yellowish/white ash at the bottom of the reactor.<br>
<br>
How is this possible that coffee husks could have so much K2O?<br>
What happens to the K2O when it is subjected to heat?<br>
I see that K2O has a melting point > <u></u>350C<u></u>.<br>
If subjected to heat does it turn into K2O2 or even KO2?<br>
At what point does it turn into a gas?<br>
<br>
Does the presence of K2O account for its urine smell?<br>
What does this urine smell mean with regard to the value of coffee husk
biochar?<br>
Would coffee husk biochar be rich in potassium?<br clear="all">
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>27C Pham Hong Thai Street<br>Dalat<br>Vietnam<br><br>Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)<br>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>
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