RE: Hi TLUDers<br><br>Dean and all,<br>This is an exciting year for TLUDs. I want to add some more good news to the list. SeaChar's Estufa Finca project has received a $72,000 grant from the National Geographic's "Great Energy Challenge" program, for TLUD and biochar research. Through our partners the Mujeres de APORTES we have also received a $10,000 contract from the IOM <a href="http://www.iom.int/jahia/Jahia/activities/pid/453">http://www.iom.int/jahia/Jahia/activities/pid/453</a> for implementing a 100 stove follow-on program to our recent pilot project, working with migrant coffee pickers. <br>
This year we will also have the opportunity to begin work with a large indigenous owned cocao co-op. This will give us a great opportunity to test different TLUDs side by side in the field over a long period of time. We plan to be doing KPT , CCT and emissions exposure tests.<br>
We would love your input.<br><br>Dean when are you thinking of having a TLUD" meet-up"? I am leaving for CR on Nov.1st, but I think I might have a trained operator who could come down.<br>Art Donnelly-SeaChar<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 9:41 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Zambia TLUD project and other large TLUD projects<br>
(Richard Stanley)<br>
2. Re: Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions<br>
(<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>)<br>
3. Re: Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions (Dean Still)<br>
4. Re: Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions<br>
(<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>)<br>
5. Re: Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions (Dean Still)<br>
6. Re: Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions<br>
(<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>)<br>
7. Gasifier stove and related work at the Asian institute of<br>
Technology (Prof. S.C. Bhattacharya)<br>
8. Re Hi TLUDerss (Paal wendelbo)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 10:52:07 -0700<br>
From: Richard Stanley <<a href="mailto:rstanley@legacyfound.org">rstanley@legacyfound.org</a>><br>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Zambia TLUD project and other large TLUD<br>
projects<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:E5A4B90F-70CF-4831-904D-1B104AAFE57F@legacyfound.org">E5A4B90F-70CF-4831-904D-1B104AAFE57F@legacyfound.org</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252<br>
<br>
Paal,<br>
<br>
Congratulations on the Zambia contract?<br>
<br>
Assisting is great for the start but then how do you plan for the assistance to be sustained ? The Peko Pe is brilliant design especially because it easy to replicate and adapt to local markets, so how is that part worked out?Just curious because we are just completing a marketing manual with some producers and trainer teams in Tanzania.<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
Richard Stanley<br>
<a href="http://www.legacyfound.org" target="_blank">www.legacyfound.org</a><br>
=======<br>
<br>
On Oct 23, 2011, at 6:33 AM, Paul S. Anderson wrote:<br>
<br>
> Dear Paal and all,<br>
><br>
> CONGRATULAIONS on the Zambia project!!!!!!!!! Please send to all of us the basic details when you are able, plus updates as you progress.<br>
><br>
> Please clarify about: "assisting 175,000 farmers ... how to utilize the waste from biochar production for household energy." There are several possible interpretations of those words: 175 k persons, or households, or stoves? and what is the role of the charcoal: to be biochar into soil, or to become charcoal as fuel for households (urban?).<br>
><br>
> With Paal's many years of experience in Africa, and with Otto Formo's participation also (my assumption, but highly likely), this will be a great TLUD project.<br>
><br>
> For the records (and please correct me if I am in error), the largest TLUD projects thus far in the world have been:<br>
><br>
> 1. Oorja Stove, by BP(now First Energy) in India: 400,000 stoves (with fans) We are not hearing anything more about that. If someone has info, please send it to the Stoves Listserv (or to me or others who will make a posting for all).<br>
><br>
> -------(Wendelbo's Zambia project will enter the list here)<br>
><br>
> 2. (lacking confirmation) Daxu Stove in China: 25,000 stoves ??? (update info requested; I think the project stopped.)<br>
><br>
> 3. BEIA project by CREEC in Uganda, with 10,000 Mwoto TLUD-ND stoves (project initiated in 2011 and runs to late 2012) ( Mwoto has its application submitted to the EPA for this coming third round of testing.)<br>
><br>
> Paul<br>
> --<br>
> Paul S. Anderson, PhD<br>
> Known to some as: Dr. TLUD Doc Professor<br>
> Phone (USA): <a href="tel:309-452-7072" value="+13094527072">309-452-7072</a> SKYPE: paultlud Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><br>
> <a href="http://www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/giz2011-en-micro-gasification.pdf" target="_blank">www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/giz2011-en-micro-gasification.pdf</a> (Best ref.)<br>
><br>
><br>
> Quoting Paal wendelbo <<a href="mailto:paaw@online.no">paaw@online.no</a>>:<br>
><br>
>> TLUDers<br>
>><br>
>> The Peko Pe is already tested by Aprovecho in 2009 and a application is send to PCIA for testing by Jim Jetter EPA. Another good TLUD-ND news: Miombo has this days signed a contract on a pilot project assisting 175000 farmers in Zambia how to utilize the waste from biochar production for household energy! using the Peko Pe for cooking.<br>
>><br>
>> Regards Paal W <a href="mailto:paaw@online.no">paaw@online.no</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> This message was sent using Illinois State University RedbirdMail<br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 20:03:53 +0000 (UTC)<br>
From: <a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">deankstill@gmail.com</a>, Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:362149272.1053476.1319400233826.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net">362149272.1053476.1319400233826.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net</a>><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Dean (cc list and Paul)<br>
<br>
Thanks for the PCIA link - which I found most interesting.<br>
<br>
I do not know anything about the Stove-Tec TLUD - which came across as being very successful.<br>
<br>
Can you either describe some details of your design - or send us to an existing web description? What might you have done differently than other TLUDS?<br>
<br>
Is there a reason that data for it were not in all the PCIA report graphs?<br>
<br>
Ron<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Dean Still" <<a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">deankstill@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: "Paul S. Anderson" <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>><br>
Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 6:28:32 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.pciaonline.org/files/PCIA_LabTestResults_webinar_final.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.pciaonline.org/files/PCIA_LabTestResults_webinar_final.pdf</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Hi Paul,<br>
<br>
<br>
Here's what PCIA published on the first round of testing. I see that a lot of your questions are answered there.<br>
<br>
<br>
My idea was that if TLUDers find it useful they can for free use our emission equipment.<br>
<br>
<br>
All Best,<br>
<br>
<br>
Dean<br>
<br>
On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Paul S. Anderson < <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> > wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
Dear Dean and all,<br>
<br>
I know of at least 5 TLUDs, each from a separate PCIA Partner, that have been proposed for testing by Jim Jetter for this third round.<br>
<br>
The Aprovecho offer of a free tune up under the emissions hood is nice. Is that offer matched by Zamorano in Honduras or CREEC in Uganda or any other place with PEMS equipment?<br>
<br>
Question: Does a person need to go to Oregon, or could the stove be sent with instructions? Cottage Grove is only convenient and inexpensive for those who live within a hundred miles!!<br>
<br>
And does Aprovecho have the SAME fuels as what Jim will be using? By the way, what are the acceptable fuels now at the EPA testing?<br>
<br>
Another question is how is the WBT used by the EPA different from which version of the other WBT's? I would like a short summary, not just a reference to multi-page documents where the methods are written but the differences are not pointed out.<br>
<br>
BTW, what TLUDs have been tested previously???<br>
<br>
??? With fans: Oorja (yes) and Reed Campstove (??) and BioLyte (??) and Belonio (??) others?<br>
<br>
??? And natural draft: Peko Pe (?) and experimental unit from StoveTec (yes) and what else?<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
--<br>
Paul S. Anderson, PhD<br>
Known to some as: Dr. TLUD Doc Professor<br>
Phone (USA): <a href="tel:309-452-7072" value="+13094527072">309-452-7072</a> SKYPE: paultlud Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><br>
<a href="http://www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/" target="_blank">www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/</a> giz2011-en-micro-gasification. pdf (Best ref.)<br>
<br>
<br>
Quoting Dean Still < <a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">deankstill@gmail.com</a> >:<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote><br>
Hi Stovers!<br>
<br>
Sorry to have been out of touch. My email was messed up in a subtle way.<br>
<br>
Jim Jetter (EPA/PCIA) is doing a second round of stove testing. He is<br>
finding out fantastic things about emissions, testing, etc. We are very<br>
lucky to have such a great guy and activity going on.<br>
<br>
Natural draft TLUDs were shown in the first round to successfully compete<br>
with fan stoves for low fuel use and emissions. Congratulations to Tom Reed,<br>
Paal Wendelbo, Paul Anderson, Ron Larson, Christa Roth, etc who invented and<br>
developed the TLUD!<br>
<br>
To those who are going to submit a TLUD to Jim, please feel free, if you'd<br>
like, to come to our lab for a free tune up using the emissions hood.<br>
<br>
Strong hot coffee, Fall in Oregon, super low emissions. What could be<br>
better?<br>
<br>
All Best,<br>
<br>
Dean<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ----<br>
This message was sent using Illinois State University RedbirdMail<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
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<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
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<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 14:16:18 -0700<br>
From: Dean Still <<a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">deankstill@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a><br>
Cc: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CA%2BtShZtukTEktFOKQejur0X_ybo6o8WYDAgJPJUkSMiF5yRPJQ@mail.gmail.com">CA+tShZtukTEktFOKQejur0X_ybo6o8WYDAgJPJUkSMiF5yRPJQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Hi Ron,<br>
<br>
Paul, Christa, Paal, Art and others taught at several TLUD oriented Stove<br>
Camps how to make TLUDs. All we did was to change different amounts of air,<br>
mixing, heat transfer strategies to the prototype design under the emissions<br>
hood. The emission hood lets us tune a stove the way cars are tuned.<br>
<br>
The TLUD we sent to Jim has a lot of fast air and mixing at the top of the<br>
fuel bed. We have the fuel sitting on a screen letting in as much bottom air<br>
as possible so the charcoal catches on fire and helps to cook the food or<br>
simmer the water. The stove burns up all the fuel. We pay a lot of attention<br>
to making the heat transfer to the pot as good as possible.<br>
<br>
I think it's really neat that a stove can either make bio-char or not by<br>
controlling the bottom air so consumers can pick what they want the stove to<br>
do.<br>
<br>
Great to hear from you.<br>
<br>
Dean<br>
<br>
On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 1:03 PM, <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Dean (cc list and Paul)<br>
><br>
> Thanks for the PCIA link - which I found most interesting.<br>
><br>
> I do not know anything about the Stove-Tec TLUD - which came across as<br>
> being very successful.<br>
><br>
> Can you either describe some details of your design - or send us to an<br>
> existing web description? What might you have done differently than other<br>
> TLUDS?<br>
><br>
> Is there a reason that data for it were not in all the PCIA report<br>
> graphs?<br>
><br>
> Ron<br>
><br>
> ------------------------------<br>
> *From: *"Dean Still" <<a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">deankstill@gmail.com</a>><br>
> *To: *"Paul S. Anderson" <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>><br>
> *Cc: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<br>
> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
> *Sent: *Saturday, October 22, 2011 6:28:32 PM<br>
> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions<br>
><br>
><br>
> <a href="http://www.pciaonline.org/files/PCIA_LabTestResults_webinar_final.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.pciaonline.org/files/PCIA_LabTestResults_webinar_final.pdf</a><br>
><br>
> Hi Paul,<br>
><br>
> Here's what PCIA published on the first round of testing. I see that a lot<br>
> of your questions are answered there.<br>
><br>
> My idea was that if TLUDers find it useful they can for free use our<br>
> emission equipment.<br>
><br>
> All Best,<br>
><br>
> Dean<br>
><br>
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Paul S. Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>>wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Dear Dean and all,<br>
>><br>
>> I know of at least 5 TLUDs, each from a separate PCIA Partner, that have<br>
>> been proposed for testing by Jim Jetter for this third round.<br>
>><br>
>> The Aprovecho offer of a free tune up under the emissions hood is nice.<br>
>> Is that offer matched by Zamorano in Honduras or CREEC in Uganda or any<br>
>> other place with PEMS equipment?<br>
>><br>
>> Question: Does a person need to go to Oregon, or could the stove be sent<br>
>> with instructions? Cottage Grove is only convenient and inexpensive for<br>
>> those who live within a hundred miles!!<br>
>><br>
>> And does Aprovecho have the SAME fuels as what Jim will be using? By the<br>
>> way, what are the acceptable fuels now at the EPA testing?<br>
>><br>
>> Another question is how is the WBT used by the EPA different from which<br>
>> version of the other WBT's? I would like a short summary, not just a<br>
>> reference to multi-page documents where the methods are written but the<br>
>> differences are not pointed out.<br>
>><br>
>> BTW, what TLUDs have been tested previously???<br>
>><br>
>> ??? With fans: Oorja (yes) and Reed Campstove (??) and BioLyte (??) and<br>
>> Belonio (??) others?<br>
>><br>
>> ??? And natural draft: Peko Pe (?) and experimental unit from StoveTec<br>
>> (yes) and what else?<br>
>><br>
>> Paul<br>
>> --<br>
>> Paul S. Anderson, PhD<br>
>> Known to some as: Dr. TLUD Doc Professor<br>
>> Phone (USA): <a href="tel:309-452-7072" value="+13094527072">309-452-7072</a> SKYPE: paultlud Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><br>
>> <a href="http://www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/**giz2011-en-micro-gasification.**pdf" target="_blank">www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/**giz2011-en-micro-gasification.**pdf</a><<a href="http://www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/giz2011-en-micro-gasification.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/giz2011-en-micro-gasification.pdf</a>> (Best ref.)<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Quoting Dean Still <<a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">deankstill@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
>><br>
>> Hi Stovers!<br>
>>><br>
>>> Sorry to have been out of touch. My email was messed up in a subtle way.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Jim Jetter (EPA/PCIA) is doing a second round of stove testing. He is<br>
>>> finding out fantastic things about emissions, testing, etc. We are very<br>
>>> lucky to have such a great guy and activity going on.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Natural draft TLUDs were shown in the first round to successfully compete<br>
>>> with fan stoves for low fuel use and emissions. Congratulations to Tom<br>
>>> Reed,<br>
>>> Paal Wendelbo, Paul Anderson, Ron Larson, Christa Roth, etc who invented<br>
>>> and<br>
>>> developed the TLUD!<br>
>>><br>
>>> To those who are going to submit a TLUD to Jim, please feel free, if<br>
>>> you'd<br>
>>> like, to come to our lab for a free tune up using the emissions hood.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Strong hot coffee, Fall in Oregon, super low emissions. What could be<br>
>>> better?<br>
>>><br>
>>> All Best,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Dean<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**----<br>
>> This message was sent using Illinois State University RedbirdMail<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Stoves mailing list<br>
><br>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
><br>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
><br>
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><br>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
> <a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
><br>
><br>
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<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 21:59:33 +0000 (UTC)<br>
From: <a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a><br>
To: Dean Still <<a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">deankstill@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:2125014305.1056738.1319407173100.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net">2125014305.1056738.1319407173100.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net</a>><br>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Dean - with few ccs.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks for the added information. Just a few more questions:<br>
<br>
1. Have you ever tried to maximize char production - and what amount did you then obtain, if tried?<br>
<br>
2. What was the mechanism for controlling primary air, if any - and did that help with the test?<br>
<br>
3. For the reported PCIA numbers, what were the key dimensions (diameters, heights, fuel amount, etc).<br>
<br>
4. Were you using a convective shield?<br>
<br>
5. If tested in the field, any response yet by users?<br>
<br>
6. Should manufacturing cost and lifetime be similar to your rocket?<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance.<br>
<br>
Ron<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Dean Still" <<a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">deankstill@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a><br>
Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>>, "Paul S. Anderson" <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>><br>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 3:16:18 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions<br>
<br>
Hi Ron,<br>
<br>
Paul, Christa, Paal, Art and others taught at several TLUD oriented Stove Camps how to make TLUDs. All we did was to change different amounts of air, mixing, heat transfer strategies to the prototype design under the emissions hood. The emission hood lets us tune a stove the way cars are tuned.<br>
<br>
The TLUD we sent to Jim has a lot of fast air and mixing at the top of the fuel bed. We have the fuel sitting on a screen letting in as much bottom air as possible so the charcoal catches on fire and helps to cook the food or simmer the water. The stove burns up all the fuel. We pay a lot of attention to making the heat transfer to the pot as good as possible.<br>
<br>
I think it's really neat that a stove can either make bio-char or not by controlling the bottom air so consumers can pick what they want the stove to do.<br>
<br>
Great to hear from you.<br>
<br>
Dean<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 1:03 PM, < <a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a> > wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Dean (cc list and Paul)<br>
<br>
Thanks for the PCIA link - which I found most interesting.<br>
<br>
I do not know anything about the Stove-Tec TLUD - which came across as being very successful.<br>
<br>
Can you either describe some details of your design - or send us to an existing web description? What might you have done differently than other TLUDS?<br>
<br>
Is there a reason that data for it were not in all the PCIA report graphs?<br>
<br>
Ron<br>
<br>
<br>
From: "Dean Still" < <a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">deankstill@gmail.com</a> ><br>
To: "Paul S. Anderson" < <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> ><br>
Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" < <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a> ><br>
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 6:28:32 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.pciaonline.org/files/PCIA_LabTestResults_webinar_final.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.pciaonline.org/files/PCIA_LabTestResults_webinar_final.pdf</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Hi Paul,<br>
<br>
<br>
Here's what PCIA published on the first round of testing. I see that a lot of your questions are answered there.<br>
<br>
<br>
My idea was that if TLUDers find it useful they can for free use our emission equipment.<br>
<br>
<br>
All Best,<br>
<br>
<br>
Dean<br>
<br>
On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Paul S. Anderson < <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> > wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote><br>
Dear Dean and all,<br>
<br>
I know of at least 5 TLUDs, each from a separate PCIA Partner, that have been proposed for testing by Jim Jetter for this third round.<br>
<br>
The Aprovecho offer of a free tune up under the emissions hood is nice. Is that offer matched by Zamorano in Honduras or CREEC in Uganda or any other place with PEMS equipment?<br>
<br>
Question: Does a person need to go to Oregon, or could the stove be sent with instructions? Cottage Grove is only convenient and inexpensive for those who live within a hundred miles!!<br>
<br>
And does Aprovecho have the SAME fuels as what Jim will be using? By the way, what are the acceptable fuels now at the EPA testing?<br>
<br>
Another question is how is the WBT used by the EPA different from which version of the other WBT's? I would like a short summary, not just a reference to multi-page documents where the methods are written but the differences are not pointed out.<br>
<br>
BTW, what TLUDs have been tested previously???<br>
<br>
??? With fans: Oorja (yes) and Reed Campstove (??) and BioLyte (??) and Belonio (??) others?<br>
<br>
??? And natural draft: Peko Pe (?) and experimental unit from StoveTec (yes) and what else?<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
--<br>
Paul S. Anderson, PhD<br>
Known to some as: Dr. TLUD Doc Professor<br>
Phone (USA): <a href="tel:309-452-7072" value="+13094527072">309-452-7072</a> SKYPE: paultlud Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><br>
<a href="http://www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/" target="_blank">www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/</a> giz2011-en-micro-gasification. pdf (Best ref.)<br>
<br>
<br>
Quoting Dean Still < <a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">deankstill@gmail.com</a> >:<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote><br>
Hi Stovers!<br>
<br>
Sorry to have been out of touch. My email was messed up in a subtle way.<br>
<br>
Jim Jetter (EPA/PCIA) is doing a second round of stove testing. He is<br>
finding out fantastic things about emissions, testing, etc. We are very<br>
lucky to have such a great guy and activity going on.<br>
<br>
Natural draft TLUDs were shown in the first round to successfully compete<br>
with fan stoves for low fuel use and emissions. Congratulations to Tom Reed,<br>
Paal Wendelbo, Paul Anderson, Ron Larson, Christa Roth, etc who invented and<br>
developed the TLUD!<br>
<br>
To those who are going to submit a TLUD to Jim, please feel free, if you'd<br>
like, to come to our lab for a free tune up using the emissions hood.<br>
<br>
Strong hot coffee, Fall in Oregon, super low emissions. What could be<br>
better?<br>
<br>
All Best,<br>
<br>
Dean<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ----<br>
This message was sent using Illinois State University RedbirdMail<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
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<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
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Message: 5<br>
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 17:54:43 -0700<br>
From: Dean Still <<a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">deankstill@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a><br>
Cc: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CA%2BtShZub4TDXPHpNok8wZmfUGAFx1FnH1-smdfFJO_7av8c9eg@mail.gmail.com">CA+tShZub4TDXPHpNok8wZmfUGAFx1FnH1-smdfFJO_7av8c9eg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Hi Ron,<br>
<br>
1.) For the EPA we tried to burn all the fuel about 2/3 as wood and 1/3 as<br>
charcoal to get the best fuel economy.<br>
2.) As far as I can tell, no primary air can make it up through the pellets<br>
until 2/3 fuel is gone and the bottom air gets up through the remaining<br>
charcoal.<br>
3.) I don't remember exactly. We used a StoveTec Rocket and added something<br>
like a 9" chimney. We probably used around 1000 grams of fuel to begin.<br>
4.) No.<br>
5.) No field tests yet.<br>
6.) TLUD cost could be the same as a Rocket.<br>
<br>
I hope that some place in the world will be positioned to make 100%<br>
renewable pellets, get carbon credits, and use super clean TLUDs. We'll see.<br>
Natural draft is obviously easier than having to use an electric fan. I<br>
think that it's possible that some government or large business will follow<br>
the BP model. I think that the job of the stove movement is to be ready with<br>
the engineering design principles for TLUDs, fan stoves, super clean Rockets<br>
when a capable entity is ready to move forward.<br>
<br>
All Best,<br>
<br>
Dean<br>
<br>
On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 2:59 PM, <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Dean - with few ccs.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Thanks for the added information. Just a few more questions:<br>
><br>
> 1. Have you ever tried to maximize char production - and what amount did<br>
> you then obtain, if tried?<br>
><br>
> 2. What was the mechanism for controlling primary air, if any - and did<br>
> that help with the test?<br>
><br>
> 3. For the reported PCIA numbers, what were the key dimensions (diameters,<br>
> heights, fuel amount, etc).<br>
><br>
> 4. Were you using a convective shield?<br>
><br>
> 5. If tested in the field, any response yet by users?<br>
><br>
> 6. Should manufacturing cost and lifetime be similar to your rocket?<br>
><br>
> Thanks in advance.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Ron<br>
> ------------------------------<br>
> *From: *"Dean Still" <<a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">deankstill@gmail.com</a>><br>
> *To: *<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a><br>
> *Cc: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<br>
> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>>, "Paul S. Anderson" <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>><br>
> *Sent: *Sunday, October 23, 2011 3:16:18 PM<br>
><br>
> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions<br>
><br>
> Hi Ron,<br>
><br>
> Paul, Christa, Paal, Art and others taught at several TLUD oriented Stove<br>
> Camps how to make TLUDs. All we did was to change different amounts of air,<br>
> mixing, heat transfer strategies to the prototype design under the emissions<br>
> hood. The emission hood lets us tune a stove the way cars are tuned.<br>
><br>
> The TLUD we sent to Jim has a lot of fast air and mixing at the top of the<br>
> fuel bed. We have the fuel sitting on a screen letting in as much bottom air<br>
> as possible so the charcoal catches on fire and helps to cook the food or<br>
> simmer the water. The stove burns up all the fuel. We pay a lot of attention<br>
> to making the heat transfer to the pot as good as possible.<br>
><br>
> I think it's really neat that a stove can either make bio-char or not by<br>
> controlling the bottom air so consumers can pick what they want the stove to<br>
> do.<br>
><br>
> Great to hear from you.<br>
><br>
> Dean<br>
><br>
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 1:03 PM, <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Dean (cc list and Paul)<br>
>><br>
>> Thanks for the PCIA link - which I found most interesting.<br>
>><br>
>> I do not know anything about the Stove-Tec TLUD - which came across<br>
>> as being very successful.<br>
>><br>
>> Can you either describe some details of your design - or send us to an<br>
>> existing web description? What might you have done differently than other<br>
>> TLUDS?<br>
>><br>
>> Is there a reason that data for it were not in all the PCIA report<br>
>> graphs?<br>
>><br>
>> Ron<br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>> *From: *"Dean Still" <<a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">deankstill@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> *To: *"Paul S. Anderson" <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>><br>
>> *Cc: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<br>
>> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
>> *Sent: *Saturday, October 22, 2011 6:28:32 PM<br>
>> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> <a href="http://www.pciaonline.org/files/PCIA_LabTestResults_webinar_final.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.pciaonline.org/files/PCIA_LabTestResults_webinar_final.pdf</a><br>
>><br>
>> Hi Paul,<br>
>><br>
>> Here's what PCIA published on the first round of testing. I see that a lot<br>
>> of your questions are answered there.<br>
>><br>
>> My idea was that if TLUDers find it useful they can for free use our<br>
>> emission equipment.<br>
>><br>
>> All Best,<br>
>><br>
>> Dean<br>
>><br>
>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Paul S. Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>>wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> Dear Dean and all,<br>
>>><br>
>>> I know of at least 5 TLUDs, each from a separate PCIA Partner, that have<br>
>>> been proposed for testing by Jim Jetter for this third round.<br>
>>><br>
>>> The Aprovecho offer of a free tune up under the emissions hood is nice.<br>
>>> Is that offer matched by Zamorano in Honduras or CREEC in Uganda or any<br>
>>> other place with PEMS equipment?<br>
>>><br>
>>> Question: Does a person need to go to Oregon, or could the stove be sent<br>
>>> with instructions? Cottage Grove is only convenient and inexpensive for<br>
>>> those who live within a hundred miles!!<br>
>>><br>
>>> And does Aprovecho have the SAME fuels as what Jim will be using? By<br>
>>> the way, what are the acceptable fuels now at the EPA testing?<br>
>>><br>
>>> Another question is how is the WBT used by the EPA different from which<br>
>>> version of the other WBT's? I would like a short summary, not just a<br>
>>> reference to multi-page documents where the methods are written but the<br>
>>> differences are not pointed out.<br>
>>><br>
>>> BTW, what TLUDs have been tested previously???<br>
>>><br>
>>> ??? With fans: Oorja (yes) and Reed Campstove (??) and BioLyte (??) and<br>
>>> Belonio (??) others?<br>
>>><br>
>>> ??? And natural draft: Peko Pe (?) and experimental unit from StoveTec<br>
>>> (yes) and what else?<br>
>>><br>
>>> Paul<br>
>>> --<br>
>>> Paul S. Anderson, PhD<br>
>>> Known to some as: Dr. TLUD Doc Professor<br>
>>> Phone (USA): <a href="tel:309-452-7072" value="+13094527072">309-452-7072</a> SKYPE: paultlud Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/**giz2011-en-micro-gasification.**pdf" target="_blank">www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/**giz2011-en-micro-gasification.**pdf</a><<a href="http://www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/giz2011-en-micro-gasification.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/giz2011-en-micro-gasification.pdf</a>> (Best ref.)<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Quoting Dean Still <<a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">deankstill@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hi Stovers!<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Sorry to have been out of touch. My email was messed up in a subtle way.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Jim Jetter (EPA/PCIA) is doing a second round of stove testing. He is<br>
>>>> finding out fantastic things about emissions, testing, etc. We are very<br>
>>>> lucky to have such a great guy and activity going on.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Natural draft TLUDs were shown in the first round to successfully<br>
>>>> compete<br>
>>>> with fan stoves for low fuel use and emissions. Congratulations to Tom<br>
>>>> Reed,<br>
>>>> Paal Wendelbo, Paul Anderson, Ron Larson, Christa Roth, etc who invented<br>
>>>> and<br>
>>>> developed the TLUD!<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> To those who are going to submit a TLUD to Jim, please feel free, if<br>
>>>> you'd<br>
>>>> like, to come to our lab for a free tune up using the emissions hood.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Strong hot coffee, Fall in Oregon, super low emissions. What could be<br>
>>>> better?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> All Best,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Dean<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**----<br>
>>> This message was sent using Illinois State University RedbirdMail<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Stoves mailing list<br>
>><br>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
>> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>><br>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>><br>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
>> <a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
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<br>
Message: 6<br>
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 03:22:23 +0000 (UTC)<br>
From: <a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a><br>
To: Dean Still <<a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">deankstill@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:1973278263.1068477.1319426543428.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net">1973278263.1068477.1319426543428.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net</a>><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
<br>
Dean with stove ccs. Thanks - only a few slight questions (maybe for others) - but a few inserted further comments below.<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Dean Still" <<a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">deankstill@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a><br>
Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>>, "Paul S. Anderson" <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>><br>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 6:54:43 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions<br>
<br>
Hi Ron,<br>
<br>
1.) For the EPA we tried to burn all the fuel about 2/3 as wood and 1/3 as charcoal to get the best fuel economy.<br>
[RWL: Most char-making estimates are that (if char had been retained), the char weight would have been about 1/5 to 1/3 (average of 1/4??) of the initial weight - leaving (maybe) 1/2 of the initial carbon in the biomass. But because pyrolysis removes most of the hydrogen, more than half of the initial energy content has appeared as gases/liquids when pyrolysis stops and gasification begins. Just saying that the 2/3 and 1/3 values could be right on, but the analysis is pretty complicated. ]<br>
<br>
2.) As far as I can tell, no primary air can make it up through the pellets until 2/3 fuel is gone and the bottom air gets up through the remaining charcoal.<br>
[RWL: It sounds like there was no "door" placed over the usual Stove-Tec opening, so perhaps other owners of Stove-Tecs can also test this in some way. It sounds like it would have been difficult to capture much char - but you were seeing several nice advantages from top lighting. For those not having experience with TLUDs, Dean's reference to "no primary air can make it up", means that the oxygen is "entirely" used to produce carbon monoxide. I am presuming that for Dean's specific geometry, there is some side air entry when the pyrolysis front has moved down by 2/3 (but I may not yet have the geometry right).]<br>
<br>
3.) I don't remember exactly. We used a StoveTec Rocket and added something like a 9" chimney. We probably used around 1000 grams of fuel to begin.<br>
[RWL: I think it is great that you tried this approach and had good results. I hope others will try something similar. The emissions results indicate this is a promising approach.<br>
<br>
4.) No.<br>
[RWL: Anyone know the PCIA rules on using convective shields? Shouldn't their use be strongly encouraged? It sounds like you have given your own test results and they may not have been the same as in the PCIA/EPA report?]<br>
<br>
Thanks for all above and next 2 answers. ]<br>
<br>
5.) No field tests yet.<br>
6.) TLUD cost could be the same as a Rocket.<br>
<br>
I hope that some place in the world will be positioned to make 100% renewable pellets, get carbon credits, and use super clean TLUDs. We'll see. Natural draft is obviously easier than having to use an electric fan. I think that it's possible that some government or large business will follow the BP model. I think that the job of the stove movement is to be ready with the engineering design principles for TLUDs, fan stoves, super clean Rockets when a capable entity is ready to move forward.<br>
<br>
[RWL: There is a lot happening out there now with TLUDs (and Nat Mulcahy's very different TLOD) - with both ND and fans. Also a lot of business models - including quite a few where the char is saved for (a little because of) carbon negativity and (more now for) soil augmentation reasons. Your tests showing such good emissions and efficiency results should help make these sort of rocket stove improvements happen faster. Thanks again for doing the testing and for many good answers above.<br>
Sorry - two more questions - the charcoal-consuming jikos looked pretty bad in the PCIA report. Can you (or anyone) report on any emission differences in your case during the early and late parts of your (or EPA) runs? Can I assume that the efficiency numbers for the jikos took no notice of the energy losses in making the charcoal?<br>
<br>
Ron ]<br>
<br>
All Best,<br>
<br>
Dean<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 2:59 PM, < <a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a> > wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Dean - with few ccs.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks for the added information. Just a few more questions:<br>
<br>
1. Have you ever tried to maximize char production - and what amount did you then obtain, if tried?<br>
<br>
2. What was the mechanism for controlling primary air, if any - and did that help with the test?<br>
<br>
3. For the reported PCIA numbers, what were the key dimensions (diameters, heights, fuel amount, etc).<br>
<br>
4. Were you using a convective shield?<br>
<br>
5. If tested in the field, any response yet by users?<br>
<br>
6. Should manufacturing cost and lifetime be similar to your rocket?<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance.<br>
<br>
<br>
Ron<br>
<br>
From: "Dean Still" < <a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">deankstill@gmail.com</a> ><br>
To: <a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a><br>
Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" < <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a> >, "Paul S. Anderson" < <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> ><br>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 3:16:18 PM<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions<br>
<br>
Hi Ron,<br>
<br>
Paul, Christa, Paal, Art and others taught at several TLUD oriented Stove Camps how to make TLUDs. All we did was to change different amounts of air, mixing, heat transfer strategies to the prototype design under the emissions hood. The emission hood lets us tune a stove the way cars are tuned.<br>
<br>
The TLUD we sent to Jim has a lot of fast air and mixing at the top of the fuel bed. We have the fuel sitting on a screen letting in as much bottom air as possible so the charcoal catches on fire and helps to cook the food or simmer the water. The stove burns up all the fuel. We pay a lot of attention to making the heat transfer to the pot as good as possible.<br>
<br>
I think it's really neat that a stove can either make bio-char or not by controlling the bottom air so consumers can pick what they want the stove to do.<br>
<br>
Great to hear from you.<br>
<br>
Dean<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 1:03 PM, < <a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a> > wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote><br>
<br>
<br>
Dean (cc list and Paul)<br>
<br>
Thanks for the PCIA link - which I found most interesting.<br>
<br>
I do not know anything about the Stove-Tec TLUD - which came across as being very successful.<br>
<br>
Can you either describe some details of your design - or send us to an existing web description? What might you have done differently than other TLUDS?<br>
<br>
Is there a reason that data for it were not in all the PCIA report graphs?<br>
<br>
Ron<br>
<br>
<br>
From: "Dean Still" < <a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">deankstill@gmail.com</a> ><br>
To: "Paul S. Anderson" < <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> ><br>
Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" < <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a> ><br>
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 6:28:32 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.pciaonline.org/files/PCIA_LabTestResults_webinar_final.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.pciaonline.org/files/PCIA_LabTestResults_webinar_final.pdf</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Hi Paul,<br>
<br>
<br>
Here's what PCIA published on the first round of testing. I see that a lot of your questions are answered there.<br>
<br>
<br>
My idea was that if TLUDers find it useful they can for free use our emission equipment.<br>
<br>
<br>
All Best,<br>
<br>
<br>
Dean<br>
<br>
On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Paul S. Anderson < <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> > wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote><br>
Dear Dean and all,<br>
<br>
I know of at least 5 TLUDs, each from a separate PCIA Partner, that have been proposed for testing by Jim Jetter for this third round.<br>
<br>
The Aprovecho offer of a free tune up under the emissions hood is nice. Is that offer matched by Zamorano in Honduras or CREEC in Uganda or any other place with PEMS equipment?<br>
<br>
Question: Does a person need to go to Oregon, or could the stove be sent with instructions? Cottage Grove is only convenient and inexpensive for those who live within a hundred miles!!<br>
<br>
And does Aprovecho have the SAME fuels as what Jim will be using? By the way, what are the acceptable fuels now at the EPA testing?<br>
<br>
Another question is how is the WBT used by the EPA different from which version of the other WBT's? I would like a short summary, not just a reference to multi-page documents where the methods are written but the differences are not pointed out.<br>
<br>
BTW, what TLUDs have been tested previously???<br>
<br>
??? With fans: Oorja (yes) and Reed Campstove (??) and BioLyte (??) and Belonio (??) others?<br>
<br>
??? And natural draft: Peko Pe (?) and experimental unit from StoveTec (yes) and what else?<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
--<br>
Paul S. Anderson, PhD<br>
Known to some as: Dr. TLUD Doc Professor<br>
Phone (USA): <a href="tel:309-452-7072" value="+13094527072">309-452-7072</a> SKYPE: paultlud Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><br>
<a href="http://www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/" target="_blank">www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/</a> giz2011-en-micro-gasification. pdf (Best ref.)<br>
<br>
<br>
Quoting Dean Still < <a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">deankstill@gmail.com</a> >:<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote><br>
Hi Stovers!<br>
<br>
Sorry to have been out of touch. My email was messed up in a subtle way.<br>
<br>
Jim Jetter (EPA/PCIA) is doing a second round of stove testing. He is<br>
finding out fantastic things about emissions, testing, etc. We are very<br>
lucky to have such a great guy and activity going on.<br>
<br>
Natural draft TLUDs were shown in the first round to successfully compete<br>
with fan stoves for low fuel use and emissions. Congratulations to Tom Reed,<br>
Paal Wendelbo, Paul Anderson, Ron Larson, Christa Roth, etc who invented and<br>
developed the TLUD!<br>
<br>
To those who are going to submit a TLUD to Jim, please feel free, if you'd<br>
like, to come to our lab for a free tune up using the emissions hood.<br>
<br>
Strong hot coffee, Fall in Oregon, super low emissions. What could be<br>
better?<br>
<br>
All Best,<br>
<br>
Dean<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ----<br>
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</blockquote><br>
<br>
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Message: 7<br>
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 09:37:46 +0530<br>
From: "Prof. S.C. Bhattacharya" <<a href="mailto:sribasb@gmail.com">sribasb@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
Subject: [Stoves] Gasifier stove and related work at the Asian<br>
institute of Technology<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CANiw=ee-xsCuqa3H2KdcQ0ZEnihb+jy37BY1+P-SfWi=<a href="mailto:VJtwZQ@mail.gmail.com">VJtwZQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Dear all,<br>
<br>
I would be happy to share some publications arising from the following<br>
activities at the Asian Institute of Technology:<br>
<br>
1. Sida funded Regional project: An information package (including<br>
construction details) on biomass briquetting machines developed in a number<br>
of Asian countries and design of natural- cross-draft gasifier stoves that<br>
can operate continuously is available. The briquetting machines developed<br>
were improvements on standard screw-press heated die design. Cross-flow<br>
gasifier stoves were designed for different sizes; these do not need any<br>
blower and can operate continuously without any smoke.<br>
<br>
2. GTZ funded project on Biocoal: We used the term "Biocoal" (rather than<br>
"Biochar") for charcoal produced from solid organic residues such as<br>
agricultural residues and waste wood. The findings of the project were<br>
reported in a book titled "Biocoal Technology and Economics" by "Regional<br>
Energy Resources Information Center (RERIC)" (<a href="mailto:email%3Aenreric@ait.ac.th">email:enreric@ait.ac.th</a>). The<br>
chapters of the 495-page book were: 1. State of the art of biocoal<br>
technology, 2. Biocoal technology: A comparison of options and<br>
recommendations, 3. Carbonisation of sawdust briquettes, 4. Laboratory-scale<br>
batch carbonisation selected residues, 5. Cost and availability of selected<br>
residues in Thailand, 6. Characterisation of selected residues, 7. Biocoal:<br>
Market requirements and Opportunities in Thailand, and 8. Economics of<br>
biocoal production in Thailand.<br>
<br>
A few copies of the book are still available with RERIC. A number of<br>
chapters of the book were summarised as journal articles; I will be happy to<br>
share some of these with interested persons for their personal use and<br>
research purpose.<br>
<br>
S.C. Bhattacharya<br>
--<br>
Prof. S.C. Bhattacharya, Ph.D. (Cambridge, UK)<br>
President, International Energy Initiative<br>
Adjunct Professor, Indian Institute of Social Welfare and<br>
Business Management (IISWBM), Kolkata, India.<br>
Associate Editor, Solar Energy<br>
Former Professor & Coordinator, Energy Program,<br>
Asian Institute of Technology, Pathumthani, Thailand<br>
T2/17A, Diamond City South, 58 M.G. Road, Tollygunge<br>
Kolkata 700041<br>
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B91-9831476944" value="+919831476944">+91-9831476944</a><br>
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Message: 8<br>
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 00:39:34 -0400<br>
From: "Paal wendelbo" <<a href="mailto:paaw@online.no">paaw@online.no</a>><br>
To: <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: [Stoves] Re Hi TLUDerss<br>
Message-ID: <5ED61E9C6BC9450EB39D19E0050DAAA9@firmanav10a4e1><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>
<br>
Dear Anderson, Crispin and Richard.<br>
<br>
The main principals for our projects I will call it community based participation both for fuel and for stove productions. Utilization of local resources with other words.. The Peko Pe is designed for production by local tinsmith with the tools they might have. They only need a template and a model; they have the knowledge how to make it.<br>
<br>
First of all we discuss the need of changes, and then on the fuel side we start up with registration of alternative biomass for fuel for briquetting, energy forestry for fuel production. We always start with the fuel .to be sure there is sufficient quantities and to an affordable price.<br>
<br>
The charcoal business, which represents about 15 % of the adult population, has to be involved from an early stage of the project. All kind of activities on the household energy sector will in one or another way have an influence of their business, and with biochar we don?t know what will happen, but that is one of the ting we will try to find out. Any how for the charcoal business it is just to change from charcoal to alternative biomass for household energy.<br>
<br>
The energy loss by production of biochar for soil improvement is almost equivalent to the energy needed for the farmer to cook if you include the African way of thinking time is coming not like by us time is running That is a big difference. A household need about 2,7 kg charcoal a day for cooking. Form about 10 kg of dry wood you will get 2,7 kg of charcoal for one day cooking and no biochar. From .10 kg of dry wood you will get 10 kg of woodchips and that will be for 2 ? day of cooking into a TLUD-ND. and about 2.7 kg of biochar. The pilot project will tell us if this is right or wrong..<br>
<br>
Crispin, you tell your Chinese friends to start with the fuel, e.g. like Richard. I think you know, when you have the fuel it?s easy tor local tinsmiths to make an efficient TLUD-ND stove.and they need the job.<br>
<br>
With regards Paal W <a href="mailto:paaw@online.no">paaw@online.no</a><br>
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End of Stoves Digest, Vol 14, Issue 40<br>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>"SeaChar.Org...positive tools for carbon negative living"<br><br>