Frank,<br><br>Rice hulls biochar makes as excellent soil amendment, as numerous test have shown.<br>Yields on rice, water spinach and other plants have increased roughly 3-fold in the trials that were done in Vietnam and Cambodia.<br>
If it is not the best biochar, I would be truly exciting to find something better.<br><br>Paul Olivier<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 7:13 AM, Frank Shields <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:frank@compostlab.com">frank@compostlab.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<u></u>
<u></u>
<u></u>
<u></u>
<u></u>
<u></u>
<u></u>
<u></u>
<div link="blue" vlink="blue" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Paul;,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I believe it should be called biochar. But
I suggest the calculation be done differently. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I suggest the biochar be tested for carbon
and the percent carbon value used for quality range. That because there is not
56.59% ash in the biochar. There is 56.59 % ash in the sample we make by
heating to 550 deg C (I suggest) where the cations like sodium go to NaCO3. Heaver
than just sodium. And the carbon lost in the ash (CO3) is from the rice hull. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I suggest the >50% carbon as excellent
biochar. I do not think rice hulls make the best biochar if we are thinking
carbon or activity as the reference. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I like the idea of a simple test like what
you mention. But for quality rating, carbon credits etc. I think we need to
follow more exact test methods. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Frank</span></font><u></u><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div class="im">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Frank</span></font><u></u><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> Shields</span></font><font color="navy"><span style="color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Control Laboratories, Inc.</span></font><font color="navy"><span style="color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">42 Hangar Way</span></font><u></u><u></u><font color="navy"><span style="color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Watsonville</span></font><u></u><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">, <u></u>CA<u></u> <u></u>95076<u></u></span></font><u></u><font color="navy"><span style="color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">(831) 724-5422 tel</span></font><font color="navy"><span style="color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">(831) 724-3188 fax</span></font><font color="navy"><span style="color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><a href="mailto:frank@compostlab.com" target="_blank">frank@compostlab.com</a></span></font><font color="navy"><span style="color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><a href="http://www.compostlab.com" target="_blank">www.compostlab.com</a></span></font><font color="navy"><span style="color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div><div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">
<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Paul Olivier<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, October 26, 2011
4:31 PM</span></font></p><div><div><font size="2" face="Tahoma"></font></div><div class="h5"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <u></u>Discussion
of biomass cooking stoves<u></u><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Stoves]
[biochar-production] Re: Stoves Digest, Vol 14,Issue 17</font></div></div><u></u><u></u><p></p>
</div><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Let us suppose that the
proximate analysis of a rice hull sample is:<br>
15.80% fixed carbon<br>
63.60% volatile matter<br>
20.60% ash.<br>
If we remove all volatile matter, the remainder would be:<br>
43.41% fixed carbon<br>
56.59% ash<br>
Should this material not be called biochar?<br>
<br>
Paul Olivier<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 3:54 AM, <u></u>Frank<u></u>
Shields <<a href="mailto:frank@compostlab.com" target="_blank">frank@compostlab.com</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Dear Crispin, Tom,<br>
<br>
I think we need to define a minimum *carbon* content for a material to be<br>
called *biochar*. We can't call something a biochar if it has less than 1%<br>
carbon for example. So where do we draw the line? We need to include all<br>
natural biomass made into biochar like rice hulls. The material needs to<br>
have enough carbon to be useful. So I say 50% carbon a minimum to be<br>
'excellent' biochar knowing that most all natural, clean biomass will<br>
produce a biochar with greater than 70% carbon. But open to other values to<br>
make a scale. This makes it a product with enough value for a grower to<br>
purchase and spread.<br>
<br>
I think the product should have the carbon content defined for quality (not<br>
DAF). We should not include the oxygen and hydrogen and ash. We should<br>
calculate the percent carbon content on the biochar sample dry weight (200<br>
deg C). If we base quality on percent fixed matter (C-H-O) after subtracting<br>
the ash I think there is a mistake. Because we 'make' more ash when we<br>
change the cations into carbonates (increasing weight) during the process.<br>
More cations from vegetative matter the more the problem. And this quantity<br>
of ash is not what we are spreading on the field. Also the carbon trapped in<br>
the ash (as CO3) is not included in the fixed carbon fraction - it should be<br>
because it comes from the organic carbon in the raw sample. These are just<br>
details and perhaps not that important. To do what I think is needed we must<br>
determine the carbon using a Leco CHN analyzer. More work with expensive<br>
equipment. But if we want to get carbon credits in the future we need to<br>
start off accurately measuring the potential CO2 we are fixing. When money<br>
is involved these details need to be addressed. Now is the time or we will<br>
be back here again at a later time.<br>
<br>
Just because the carbon content is 0.1% and the ash is 99.9% doesn't mean<br>
the product is not beneficial for an ag field. But I don't think we should<br>
call it biochar even if someone did add a spoonful into a soil mix. This<br>
rating has nothing to do with benefit to a field. That is site specific. It<br>
has something to do with label on the bag (or may in the future).<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<u></u>Frank<u></u><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Vegatative plant material is 10 to 20 percent. We test a lot for nutrients.<br>
It is very hard to get the customer to bring us a clean sample as it takes<br>
so very little dust and dirt to bring the ash concentration up. I think<br>
harvesting biomass for biofuel and one will not be careful to harvest clean<br>
samples.<br>
<br>
If you have 15% ash in a dry organic material. Loose 60% of the organic<br>
fraction during pyrolysis you have something like 20+ percent ash. And, as<br>
you point out, there can be biomass with much greater than 20% ash.<br>
<br>
I suggested the 50% thinking this would be high enough to include most all<br>
biomass that is made into biochar. Thinking we need some limit that if there<br>
is less than 50% carbon<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<u></u>Frank<u></u> Shields<br>
Control Laboratories, Inc.<br>
<u></u><u></u>42 Hangar Way<u></u><u></u><br>
<u></u><u></u>Watsonville<u></u>, <u></u>CA<u></u> <u></u>95076<u></u><u></u><br>
(831) 724-5422 tel<br>
(831) 724-3188 fax<br>
<a href="mailto:frank@compostlab.com" target="_blank">frank@compostlab.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.compostlab.com" target="_blank">www.compostlab.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Crispin<br>
Pemberton-Pigott<br>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 12:42 PM<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">To: <u></u>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<u></u><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar-production] Re: Stoves Digest, Vol 14,Issue<br>
17<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Dear <u></u>Frank<u></u><br>
<br>
Apart from the special case of rice hull, how could you get a 50% ash level<br>
in char? Trees are about 0.5% ash. There is not much left of the fuel if<br>
the char is 1% of the initial mass.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
Crispin<br>
<br>
<u></u>Frank<u></u>,<br>
<br>
I see the ash/carbon content as a sliding scale with relative changing<br>
benefits rather than a threshold level. If biochar has less carbon than ash<br>
is there still an agronomic benefit?<br>
<br>
It is not clear how the IBI guidelines will be used. The guidelines should<br>
list those components that should be measured. The recommended levels of<br>
those components for different purposes could be separate recommendations<br>
from IBI to a certification agency.<br>
<br>
If the purpose is stability and carbon sequestration why limit counting<br>
recalcitrant carbon even if it is 0.1% carbon or, 99.9% ash?<br>
<br>
Tom<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists%0A.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists<br>
.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
<a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
<a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>
27C <u></u><u></u>Pham Hong Thai Street<u></u><u></u><br>
Dalat<br>
<u></u><u></u>Vietnam<u></u><u></u><br>
<br>
<u></u>Louisiana<u></u> telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings <u></u><u></u>Vietnam<u></u><u></u>)<br>
<u></u>Mobile<u></u>: 090-694-1573 (in <u></u><u></u>Vietnam<u></u><u></u>)<br>
Skype address: Xpolivier<br>
<a href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div></div></div>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
<a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>27C Pham Hong Thai Street<br>Dalat<br>Vietnam<br><br>Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)<br>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>
Skype address: Xpolivier<br><a href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a><br>