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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Dear Paul</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Is it the biochar component, or the fertilizer
component that is primarily responsible for the great results the Farmers get
with Rice Hull Biochar?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Best wishes,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Kevin</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=paul.olivier@esrla.com href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com">Paul
Olivier</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 27, 2011 9:19
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves]
[biochar-production] Re: Stoves Digest, Vol 14,Issue 17</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Frank,<BR><BR>Rice hulls biochar makes as excellent soil
amendment, as numerous test have shown.<BR>Yields on rice, water spinach and
other plants have increased roughly 3-fold in the trials that were done in
Vietnam and Cambodia.<BR>If it is not the best biochar, I would be truly
exciting to find something better.<BR><BR>Paul Olivier<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 7:13 AM, Frank Shields <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:frank@compostlab.com">frank@compostlab.com</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote><U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U><U></U>
<DIV lang=EN-US vlink="blue" link="blue">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Paul;,<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I believe it should
be called biochar. But I suggest the calculation be done differently.
<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I suggest the
biochar be tested for carbon and the percent carbon value used for quality
range. That because there is not 56.59% ash in the biochar. There is 56.59 %
ash in the sample we make by heating to 550 deg C (I suggest) where the
cations like sodium go to NaCO3. Heaver than just sodium. And the carbon
lost in the ash (CO3) is from the rice hull.
<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I suggest the
>50% carbon as excellent biochar. I do not think rice hulls make the best
biochar if we are thinking carbon or activity as the reference.
<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I like the idea of
a simple test like what you mention. But for quality rating, carbon credits
etc. I think we need to follow more exact test methods.
<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
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style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Frank</SPAN></FONT><U></U><FONT
color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV class=im>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Frank</SPAN></FONT><U></U><FONT
color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
Shields</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Control
Laboratories, Inc.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">42 Hangar
Way</SPAN></FONT><U></U><U></U><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Watsonville</SPAN></FONT><U></U><FONT
color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">,
<U></U>CA<U></U> <U></U>95076<U></U></SPAN></FONT><U></U><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">(831) 724-5422
tel</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">(831) 724-3188
fax</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A
href="mailto:frank@compostlab.com"
target=_blank>frank@compostlab.com</A></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A
href="http://www.compostlab.com"
target=_blank>www.compostlab.com</A></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=MsoNormal align=center><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A> [mailto:<A
href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Paul Olivier<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, October 26, 2011 4:31
PM</SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=h5><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <U></U>Discussion of biomass
cooking stoves<U></U><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Stoves]
[biochar-production] Re: Stoves Digest, Vol 14,Issue
17</FONT></DIV></DIV><U></U><U></U>
<P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=h5>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Let us suppose that the
proximate analysis of a rice hull sample is:<BR>15.80% fixed
carbon<BR>63.60% volatile matter<BR>20.60% ash.<BR>If we remove all volatile
matter, the remainder would be:<BR>43.41% fixed carbon<BR>56.59%
ash<BR>Should this material not be called biochar?<BR><BR>Paul
Olivier<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 3:54 AM, <U></U>Frank<U></U>
Shields <<A href="mailto:frank@compostlab.com"
target=_blank>frank@compostlab.com</A>>
wrote:<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Dear Crispin, Tom,<BR><BR>I think we need to define
a minimum *carbon* content for a material to be<BR>called *biochar*. We
can't call something a biochar if it has less than 1%<BR>carbon for example.
So where do we draw the line? We need to include all<BR>natural biomass made
into biochar like rice hulls. The material needs to<BR>have enough carbon to
be useful. So I say 50% carbon a minimum to be<BR>'excellent' biochar
knowing that most all natural, clean biomass will<BR>produce a biochar with
greater than 70% carbon. But open to other values to<BR>make a scale. This
makes it a product with enough value for a grower to<BR>purchase and
spread.<BR><BR>I think the product should have the carbon content defined
for quality (not<BR>DAF). We should not include the oxygen and hydrogen and
ash. We should<BR>calculate the percent carbon content on the biochar sample
dry weight (200<BR>deg C). If we base quality on percent fixed matter
(C-H-O) after subtracting<BR>the ash I think there is a mistake. Because we
'make' more ash when we<BR>change the cations into carbonates (increasing
weight) during the process.<BR>More cations from vegetative matter the more
the problem. And this quantity<BR>of ash is not what we are spreading on the
field. Also the carbon trapped in<BR>the ash (as CO3) is not included in the
fixed carbon fraction - it should be<BR>because it comes from the organic
carbon in the raw sample. These are just<BR>details and perhaps not that
important. To do what I think is needed we must<BR>determine the carbon
using a Leco CHN analyzer. More work with expensive<BR>equipment. But if we
want to get carbon credits in the future we need to<BR>start off accurately
measuring the potential CO2 we are fixing. When money<BR>is involved these
details need to be addressed. Now is the time or we will<BR>be back here
again at a later time.<BR><BR>Just because the carbon content is 0.1% and
the ash is 99.9% doesn't mean<BR>the product is not beneficial for an ag
field. But I don't think we should<BR>call it biochar even if someone did
add a spoonful into a soil mix. This<BR>rating has nothing to do with
benefit to a field. That is site specific. It<BR>has something to do with
label on the bag (or may in the
future).<BR><BR><BR>Regards<BR><U></U>Frank<U></U><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Vegatative
plant material is 10 to 20 percent. We test a lot for nutrients.<BR>It is
very hard to get the customer to bring us a clean sample as it takes<BR>so
very little dust and dirt to bring the ash concentration up. I
think<BR>harvesting biomass for biofuel and one will not be careful to
harvest clean<BR>samples.<BR><BR>If you have 15% ash in a dry organic
material. Loose 60% of the organic<BR>fraction during pyrolysis you have
something like 20+ percent ash. And, as<BR>you point out, there can be
biomass with much greater than 20% ash.<BR><BR>I suggested the 50% thinking
this would be high enough to include most all<BR>biomass that is made into
biochar. Thinking we need some limit that if there<BR>is less than 50%
carbon<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><U></U>Frank<U></U>
Shields<BR>Control Laboratories, Inc.<BR><U></U><U></U>42 Hangar
Way<U></U><U></U><BR><U></U><U></U>Watsonville<U></U>, <U></U>CA<U></U>
<U></U>95076<U></U><U></U><BR>(831) 724-5422 tel<BR>(831) 724-3188
fax<BR><A href="mailto:frank@compostlab.com"
target=_blank>frank@compostlab.com</A><BR><A
href="http://www.compostlab.com"
target=_blank>www.compostlab.com</A><BR><BR><BR><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">-----Original Message-----<BR>From: <A
href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR>[mailto:<A
href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>] On Behalf Of
Crispin<BR>Pemberton-Pigott<BR>Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 12:42
PM<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">To: <U></U>Discussion
of biomass cooking stoves<U></U><BR>Subject: Re: [Stoves]
[biochar-production] Re: Stoves Digest, Vol
14,Issue<BR>17<U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Dear
<U></U>Frank<U></U><BR><BR>Apart from the special case of rice hull, how
could you get a 50% ash level<BR>in char? Trees are about 0.5% ash.
There is not much left of the fuel if<BR>the char is 1% of the initial
mass.<BR><BR>Regards<BR>Crispin<BR><BR><U></U>Frank<U></U>,<BR> <BR>I
see the ash/carbon content as a sliding scale with relative
changing<BR>benefits rather than a threshold level. If biochar has less
carbon than ash<BR>is there still an agronomic benefit?<BR> <BR>It is
not clear how the IBI guidelines will be used. The guidelines should<BR>list
those components that should be measured. The recommended levels of<BR>those
components for different purposes could be separate recommendations<BR>from
IBI to a certification agency.<BR> <BR>If the purpose is stability and
carbon sequestration why limit counting<BR>recalcitrant carbon even if it is
0.1% carbon or, 99.9%
ash?<BR> <BR>Tom<BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Paul A. Olivier
PhD<BR>27C <U></U><U></U>Pham Hong Thai
Street<U></U><U></U><BR>Dalat<BR><U></U><U></U>Vietnam<U></U><U></U><BR><BR><U></U>Louisiana<U></U>
telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings
<U></U><U></U>Vietnam<U></U><U></U>)<BR><U></U>Mobile<U></U>: 090-694-1573
(in <U></U><U></U>Vietnam<U></U><U></U>)<BR>Skype address: Xpolivier<BR><A
href="http://www.esrla.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.esrla.com/</A><U></U><U></U></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves
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clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Paul A. Olivier PhD<BR>27C Pham Hong Thai
Street<BR>Dalat<BR>Vietnam<BR><BR>Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings
Vietnam)<BR>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<BR>Skype address:
Xpolivier<BR><A href="http://www.esrla.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.esrla.com/</A><BR>
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