Matthew,<br><br>You say:<br><i>Silicon Carbide seems like a reasonable mesh choice - chemically stable
and able to withstand high temperatures. It even has a higher emissivity
than stainless steels in the 0.7-10 micron wavelength range (red
visible light - mid-IR range), meaning that it will emit more EM
radiation than a stainless steel at the same temperature. <a href="http://www.pyrometry.com/emissivity_materials.php" target="_blank">http://www.pyrometry.com/emissivity_materials.php</a> <br></i><br><div class="gmail_quote">
You say that silicon carbide has a higher emissivity and will emit more EM radiation at the same temperature than stainless steel.<br>I think that this is the critical point: how to get more radiation at the same temperature.<br>
<br>Thanks.<br>Paul<br><br><br>On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 8:54 PM, Matthew Redmond <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mredmond3@gatech.edu">mredmond3@gatech.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Kevin,<div><br></div><div>You make a good point about both temperature and atmosphere being important as to whether a material will oxidize. If there was 0% oxygen available, oxidation would not occur even at high temperatures. However, when the stove is turned off, the wire mesh would still be very hot, and probably able to oxidize in atmospheric air.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Silicon Carbide seems like a reasonable mesh choice - chemically stable and able to withstand high temperatures. It even has a higher emissivity than stainless steels in the 0.7-10 micron wavelength range (red visible light - mid-IR range), meaning that it will emit more EM radiation than a stainless steel at the same temperature. <a href="http://www.pyrometry.com/emissivity_materials.php" target="_blank">http://www.pyrometry.com/emissivity_materials.php</a> </div>
<div><br></div><div>I was able to find some Silicon Carbide meshes using a google search for "silicon carbide mesh". Note they are not called wire meshes, but are just called meshes. They are a bit expensive, though.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Perhaps some inspiration can be taken from lanterns used for camping? <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_mantle" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_mantle</a></div><div><br></div>
<div>-Matt Redmond</div>
<div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 11:23 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam (Anand Karve)<br>
2. Re: the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam (Paul Olivier)<br>
3. Re: the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam (Anand Karve)<br>
4. Re: the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam (Paul Olivier)<br>
5. Re: the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam (Kevin)<br>
6. Re: the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam (Paul Olivier)<br>
7. Re: the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam (Andrew C. Parker)<br>
8. Re: the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam (Kevin)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 11:54:04 +0800<br>
From: Anand Karve <<a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com" target="_blank">adkarve@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CACPy7SfmvGjavu%2BQG0YeJfgQi6FaajbzspBuaYKef-wOTsgzeg@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CACPy7SfmvGjavu+QG0YeJfgQi6FaajbzspBuaYKef-wOTsgzeg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Dear Paul,<br>
even stainless steel is no good. At high temperature, it corrodes and<br>
crumbles into pieces.<br>
Yours<br>
A.D.Karve<br>
<br>
On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Steve Taylor<br>
<<a href="mailto:steve@thetaylorfamily.org.uk" target="_blank">steve@thetaylorfamily.org.uk</a>>wrote:<br>
<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 5 March 2012 02:56, Paul Olivier <<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>><br>
>> I know that a tungsten wire mesh exists.<br>
>> But no doubt this would be too expensive.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
> Tungsten will oxidise to nothing very quickly. Probably Incoloy would be<br>
> ideal<br>
><br>
> Steve<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Stoves mailing list<br>
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--<br>
***<br>
Dr. A.D. Karve<br>
Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br>
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<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 10:58:50 +0700<br>
From: Paul Olivier <<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>><br>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAOreFvY6_NnqqWAKBTE2egbYKVrHWWSNBCNe63SRY_7d0ZpDNA@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CAOreFvY6_NnqqWAKBTE2egbYKVrHWWSNBCNe63SRY_7d0ZpDNA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
A.D.,<br>
<br>
I am looking for a 446 stainless steel wire mesh.<br>
Have you ever worked with silicon carbide mesh?<br>
It is used as an emitter in thermophotovoltaics.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Anand Karve <<a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com" target="_blank">adkarve@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Dear Paul,<br>
> even stainless steel is no good. At high temperature, it corrodes and<br>
> crumbles into pieces.<br>
> Yours<br>
> A.D.Karve<br>
><br>
> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Steve Taylor <<a href="mailto:steve@thetaylorfamily.org.uk" target="_blank">steve@thetaylorfamily.org.uk</a><br>
> > wrote:<br>
><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 5 March 2012 02:56, Paul Olivier <<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>><br>
>>> I know that a tungsten wire mesh exists.<br>
>>> But no doubt this would be too expensive.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>> Tungsten will oxidise to nothing very quickly. Probably Incoloy would be<br>
>> ideal<br>
>><br>
>> Steve<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Stoves mailing list<br>
>><br>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
>> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>><br>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>><br>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
>> <a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> ***<br>
> Dr. A.D. Karve<br>
> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Stoves mailing list<br>
><br>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
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><br>
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><br>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
> <a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>
27C Pham Hong Thai Street<br>
Dalat<br>
Vietnam<br>
<br>
Louisiana telephone: <a href="tel:1-337-447-4124" value="+13374474124" target="_blank">1-337-447-4124</a> (rings Vietnam)<br>
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>
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<a href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 12:02:16 +0800<br>
From: Anand Karve <<a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com" target="_blank">adkarve@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CACPy7SfPxcjVuX-Xc_hGPuoH7F033_5=<a href="mailto:Q1oG3_c4wa1KiCeWpg@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">Q1oG3_c4wa1KiCeWpg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Dear Paul,<br>
I have not worked with that grade of stainless steel and also not worked<br>
with silicon carbide mesh.<br>
Yours<br>
A.D.Karve<br>
<br>
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Paul Olivier <<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>>wrote:<br>
<br>
> A.D.,<br>
><br>
> I am looking for a 446 stainless steel wire mesh.<br>
> Have you ever worked with silicon carbide mesh?<br>
> It is used as an emitter in thermophotovoltaics.<br>
><br>
> Paul<br>
><br>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Anand Karve <<a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com" target="_blank">adkarve@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Dear Paul,<br>
>> even stainless steel is no good. At high temperature, it corrodes and<br>
>> crumbles into pieces.<br>
>> Yours<br>
>> A.D.Karve<br>
>><br>
>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Steve Taylor <<br>
>> <a href="mailto:steve@thetaylorfamily.org.uk" target="_blank">steve@thetaylorfamily.org.uk</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On 5 March 2012 02:56, Paul Olivier <<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I know that a tungsten wire mesh exists.<br>
>>>> But no doubt this would be too expensive.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>> Tungsten will oxidise to nothing very quickly. Probably Incoloy would be<br>
>>> ideal<br>
>>><br>
>>> Steve<br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Stoves mailing list<br>
>>><br>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
>>><br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
>>> <a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> ***<br>
>> Dr. A.D. Karve<br>
>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Stoves mailing list<br>
>><br>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
>> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>><br>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>><br>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
>> <a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>
> 27C Pham Hong Thai Street<br>
> Dalat<br>
> Vietnam<br>
><br>
> Louisiana telephone: <a href="tel:1-337-447-4124" value="+13374474124" target="_blank">1-337-447-4124</a> (rings Vietnam)<br>
> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>
> Skype address: Xpolivier<br>
> <a href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Stoves mailing list<br>
><br>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
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><br>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
> <a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
***<br>
Dr. A.D. Karve<br>
Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 11:12:35 +0700<br>
From: Paul Olivier <<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>><br>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAOreFvar1C75TkTYsHmF8yS=<a href="mailto:Qw0aJ02nxsoU-rbeNaTfXSUwPA@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">Qw0aJ02nxsoU-rbeNaTfXSUwPA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
446 stainless can handle temperatures as high as 1,200 C.<br>
Silicon carbide is quite cheap, and it can handle temperatures as high as<br>
1,650 C.<br>
<a href="http://accuratus.com/silicar.html" target="_blank">http://accuratus.com/silicar.html</a><br>
<br>
Thanks.<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Anand Karve <<a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com" target="_blank">adkarve@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Dear Paul,<br>
> I have not worked with that grade of stainless steel and also not worked<br>
> with silicon carbide mesh.<br>
> Yours<br>
> A.D.Karve<br>
><br>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Paul Olivier <<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>>wrote:<br>
><br>
>> A.D.,<br>
>><br>
>> I am looking for a 446 stainless steel wire mesh.<br>
>> Have you ever worked with silicon carbide mesh?<br>
>> It is used as an emitter in thermophotovoltaics.<br>
>><br>
>> Paul<br>
>><br>
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Anand Karve <<a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com" target="_blank">adkarve@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> Dear Paul,<br>
>>> even stainless steel is no good. At high temperature, it corrodes and<br>
>>> crumbles into pieces.<br>
>>> Yours<br>
>>> A.D.Karve<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Steve Taylor <<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:steve@thetaylorfamily.org.uk" target="_blank">steve@thetaylorfamily.org.uk</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On 5 March 2012 02:56, Paul Olivier <<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I know that a tungsten wire mesh exists.<br>
>>>>> But no doubt this would be too expensive.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>> Tungsten will oxidise to nothing very quickly. Probably Incoloy would<br>
>>>> be ideal<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Steve<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Stoves mailing list<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
>>>> <a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> ***<br>
>>> Dr. A.D. Karve<br>
>>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute<br>
>>> (ARTI)<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Stoves mailing list<br>
>>><br>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
>>><br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
>>> <a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>
>> 27C Pham Hong Thai Street<br>
>> Dalat<br>
>> Vietnam<br>
>><br>
>> Louisiana telephone: <a href="tel:1-337-447-4124" value="+13374474124" target="_blank">1-337-447-4124</a> (rings Vietnam)<br>
>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>
>> Skype address: Xpolivier<br>
>> <a href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Stoves mailing list<br>
>><br>
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>> <a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
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><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> ***<br>
> Dr. A.D. Karve<br>
> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Stoves mailing list<br>
><br>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
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><br>
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><br>
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<br>
--<br>
Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>
27C Pham Hong Thai Street<br>
Dalat<br>
Vietnam<br>
<br>
Louisiana telephone: <a href="tel:1-337-447-4124" value="+13374474124" target="_blank">1-337-447-4124</a> (rings Vietnam)<br>
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>
Skype address: Xpolivier<br>
<a href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 00:39:39 -0400<br>
From: "Kevin" <<a href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net" target="_blank">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</a>><br>
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"<br>
<<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam<br>
Message-ID: <01679C76365247A7A4B457DF4120AFED@usera594fda0bf><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Dear Paul<br>
<br>
Why not start with simple mild steel screen, of various sizes, and test them to see how long they last?<br>
<br>
Exotic materials will probably last longer, but at a very much higher cost.<br>
<br>
Once you have cost and "lifetime" information, then you can make the best decision about what materials to use.<br>
<br>
Best wishes,<br>
<br>
Kevin<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: Paul Olivier<br>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:12 AM<br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam<br>
<br>
<br>
446 stainless can handle temperatures as high as 1,200 C.<br>
Silicon carbide is quite cheap, and it can handle temperatures as high as 1,650 C.<br>
<a href="http://accuratus.com/silicar.html" target="_blank">http://accuratus.com/silicar.html</a><br>
<br>
Thanks.<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Anand Karve <<a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com" target="_blank">adkarve@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Dear Paul,<br>
I have not worked with that grade of stainless steel and also not worked with silicon carbide mesh.<br>
Yours<br>
A.D.Karve<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Paul Olivier <<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
A.D.,<br>
<br>
I am looking for a 446 stainless steel wire mesh.<br>
Have you ever worked with silicon carbide mesh?<br>
It is used as an emitter in thermophotovoltaics.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Anand Karve <<a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com" target="_blank">adkarve@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Dear Paul,<br>
even stainless steel is no good. At high temperature, it corrodes and crumbles into pieces.<br>
Yours<br>
A.D.Karve<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Steve Taylor <<a href="mailto:steve@thetaylorfamily.org.uk" target="_blank">steve@thetaylorfamily.org.uk</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 5 March 2012 02:56, Paul Olivier <<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
I know that a tungsten wire mesh exists.<br>
But no doubt this would be too expensive.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Tungsten will oxidise to nothing very quickly. Probably Incoloy would be ideal<br>
<br>
Steve<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
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<br>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
***<br>
Dr. A.D. Karve<br>
Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
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<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>
27C Pham Hong Thai Street<br>
Dalat<br>
Vietnam<br>
<br>
Louisiana telephone: <a href="tel:1-337-447-4124" value="+13374474124" target="_blank">1-337-447-4124</a> (rings Vietnam)<br>
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>
Skype address: Xpolivier<br>
<a href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
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<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
<a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
***<br>
Dr. A.D. Karve<br>
Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
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<br>
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<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
<a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>
27C Pham Hong Thai Street<br>
Dalat<br>
Vietnam<br>
<br>
Louisiana telephone: <a href="tel:1-337-447-4124" value="+13374474124" target="_blank">1-337-447-4124</a> (rings Vietnam)<br>
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>
Skype address: Xpolivier<br>
<a href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
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<br>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
<br>
No virus found in this message.<br>
Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a><br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 6<br>
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 12:00:41 +0700<br>
From: Paul Olivier <<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>><br>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAOreFvZByxEciQ=PA_uEXGG2+kXWUcoDQa51VzogA3jO=<a href="mailto:UGreQ@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">UGreQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Kevin,<br>
<br>
I do not think that normal mild steel wire mesh would make it through a<br>
single gasifier run.<br>
I'm afraid that it has to be something "exotic".<br>
This wire mesh really gets hot.<br>
Someone measured the temperature about 4 inches above the dome.<br>
When the probe reached 500 C, he stopped.<br>
<br>
Thanks.<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Kevin <<a href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net" target="_blank">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> **<br>
> Dear Paul<br>
><br>
> Why not start with simple mild steel screen, of various sizes, and test<br>
> them to see how long they last?<br>
><br>
> Exotic materials will probably last longer, but at a very much higher<br>
> cost.<br>
><br>
> Once you have cost and "lifetime" information, then you can make the best<br>
> decision about what materials to use.<br>
><br>
> Best wishes,<br>
><br>
> Kevin<br>
><br>
> ----- Original Message -----<br>
> *From:* Paul Olivier <<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>><br>
> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:12 AM<br>
> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam<br>
><br>
> 446 stainless can handle temperatures as high as 1,200 C.<br>
> Silicon carbide is quite cheap, and it can handle temperatures as high as<br>
> 1,650 C.<br>
> <a href="http://accuratus.com/silicar.html" target="_blank">http://accuratus.com/silicar.html</a><br>
><br>
> Thanks.<br>
> Paul<br>
><br>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Anand Karve <<a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com" target="_blank">adkarve@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Dear Paul,<br>
>> I have not worked with that grade of stainless steel and also not worked<br>
>> with silicon carbide mesh.<br>
>> Yours<br>
>> A.D.Karve<br>
>><br>
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Paul Olivier <<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>>wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> A.D.,<br>
>>><br>
>>> I am looking for a 446 stainless steel wire mesh.<br>
>>> Have you ever worked with silicon carbide mesh?<br>
>>> It is used as an emitter in thermophotovoltaics.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Paul<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Anand Karve <<a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com" target="_blank">adkarve@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> Dear Paul,<br>
>>>> even stainless steel is no good. At high temperature, it corrodes and<br>
>>>> crumbles into pieces.<br>
>>>> Yours<br>
>>>> A.D.Karve<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Steve Taylor <<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:steve@thetaylorfamily.org.uk" target="_blank">steve@thetaylorfamily.org.uk</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On 5 March 2012 02:56, Paul Olivier <<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> I know that a tungsten wire mesh exists.<br>
>>>>>> But no doubt this would be too expensive.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>> Tungsten will oxidise to nothing very quickly. Probably Incoloy would<br>
>>>>> be ideal<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Steve<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> Stoves mailing list<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web<br>
>>>>> site:<br>
>>>>> <a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> --<br>
>>>> ***<br>
>>>> Dr. A.D. Karve<br>
>>>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute<br>
>>>> (ARTI)<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Stoves mailing list<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
>>>> <a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>
>>> 27C Pham Hong Thai Street<br>
>>> Dalat<br>
>>> Vietnam<br>
>>><br>
>>> Louisiana telephone: <a href="tel:1-337-447-4124" value="+13374474124" target="_blank">1-337-447-4124</a> (rings Vietnam)<br>
>>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>
>>> Skype address: Xpolivier<br>
>>> <a href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Stoves mailing list<br>
>>><br>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
>>><br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
>>> <a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> ***<br>
>> Dr. A.D. Karve<br>
>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Stoves mailing list<br>
>><br>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
>> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>><br>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>><br>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
>> <a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>
> 27C Pham Hong Thai Street<br>
> Dalat<br>
> Vietnam<br>
><br>
> Louisiana telephone: <a href="tel:1-337-447-4124" value="+13374474124" target="_blank">1-337-447-4124</a> (rings Vietnam)<br>
> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>
> Skype address: Xpolivier<br>
> <a href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a><br>
><br>
> ------------------------------<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Stoves mailing list<br>
><br>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
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><br>
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><br>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
> <a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
><br>
> ------------------------------<br>
><br>
> No virus found in this message.<br>
> Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a><br>
> Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4852 - Release Date: 03/05/12<br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Stoves mailing list<br>
><br>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
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><br>
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><br>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
> <a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>
27C Pham Hong Thai Street<br>
Dalat<br>
Vietnam<br>
<br>
Louisiana telephone: <a href="tel:1-337-447-4124" value="+13374474124" target="_blank">1-337-447-4124</a> (rings Vietnam)<br>
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>
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Message: 7<br>
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 22:11:23 -0700<br>
From: "Andrew C. Parker" <<a href="mailto:acparker@xmission.com" target="_blank">acparker@xmission.com</a>><br>
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"<br>
<<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam<br>
Message-ID: <op.waqgo9fuuoov7l@user-8ezctxe031><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed;<br>
delsp=yes<br>
<br>
If I understood the patents, the material needs not only to be refractory,<br>
but also to radiate heat in the desired frequency (turns red with heat).<br>
Patent US4452225 used Monel. Patent US6612834 requires "an inoxidizable,<br>
non-porous refractory material formed to be permeable and non-porous and<br>
which turns red with heat." Patent US7631640 only describes high<br>
temperature metal (No mention of heated color).<br>
<br>
Also, could someone who knows more about these things than I (most of you,<br>
I'd wager) please review US6612834? It can be read at:<br>
<<a href="http://www.google.com/patents?id=DjoNAAAAEBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=US6612834&hl=en&sa=X&ei=sZdVT471HaaviAKnuOi2Bw&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/patents?id=DjoNAAAAEBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=US6612834&hl=en&sa=X&ei=sZdVT471HaaviAKnuOi2Bw&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA</a>>,<br>
if the url doesn't work, just type the patent number into google to get to<br>
google patents.<br>
<br>
I am curious about the inventor's explanation of his use of an amplifying<br>
outer enclosure (labeled "5"). It starts at Column 8 line 59 and goes<br>
through Column 9 line 57. The goal being to convert as much heat as<br>
possible into IR radiation.<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 21:12:35 -0700, Paul Olivier <<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> 446 stainless can handle temperatures as high as 1,200 C.<br>
> Silicon carbide is quite cheap, and it can handle temperatures as high as<br>
> 1,650 C.<br>
> <a href="http://accuratus.com/silicar.html" target="_blank">http://accuratus.com/silicar.html</a><br>
><br>
> Thanks.<br>
> Paul<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 8<br>
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 02:23:24 -0400<br>
From: "Kevin" <<a href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net" target="_blank">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</a>><br>
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"<br>
<<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam<br>
Message-ID: <93A22F3DD3BD4FEE91ED724C5DD2D6A9@usera594fda0bf><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Dear Paul<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: Paul Olivier<br>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 1:00 AM<br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam<br>
<br>
<br>
Kevin,<br>
<br>
I do not think that normal mild steel wire mesh would make it through a single gasifier run.<br>
<br>
# Certainly, "red hot mild steel" in an oxidizing air atmosphere will scale up and fail quickly. However, you don't have that.... you have a combustion zone atmosphere. It is very simple and cheap[ to try. Try it, and let the screen itself tell you that it needs to be of higher quality.<br>
<br>
I'm afraid that it has to be something "exotic".<br>
<br>
# Let the system prove to you that it needs to be exotic. :-)<br>
<br>
This wire mesh really gets hot.<br>
<br>
# "Hot" is one thing, but "oxdizing atmosphere" is another. If the atmosphere the screen "sees" is "adequately reducing", then mild steel might be an economically good solution. On the other hand, as the atmosphere becomes increasingly oxidizing, then the more exotic materials are required.<br>
<br>
Someone measured the temperature about 4 inches above the dome.<br>
When the probe reached 500 C, he stopped.<br>
<br>
# A material that would fail in air at 500 C might be quite acceptable in a reducing atmosphere at 500 C<br>
<br>
# The problem is one of Temperature AND Atmosphere. You could probably reduce costs safely, with a test program that confirmed the minimum quality screen material that would do an acceptable job.<br>
Best wishes,<br>
<br>
Kevin<br>
<br>
Thanks.<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Kevin <<a href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net" target="_blank">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Dear Paul<br>
<br>
Why not start with simple mild steel screen, of various sizes, and test them to see how long they last?<br>
<br>
Exotic materials will probably last longer, but at a very much higher cost.<br>
<br>
Once you have cost and "lifetime" information, then you can make the best decision about what materials to use.<br>
<br>
Best wishes,<br>
<br>
Kevin<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: Paul Olivier<br>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:12 AM<br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam<br>
<br>
<br>
446 stainless can handle temperatures as high as 1,200 C.<br>
Silicon carbide is quite cheap, and it can handle temperatures as high as 1,650 C.<br>
<a href="http://accuratus.com/silicar.html" target="_blank">http://accuratus.com/silicar.html</a><br>
<br>
Thanks.<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Anand Karve <<a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com" target="_blank">adkarve@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Dear Paul,<br>
I have not worked with that grade of stainless steel and also not worked with silicon carbide mesh.<br>
Yours<br>
A.D.Karve<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Paul Olivier <<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
A.D.,<br>
<br>
I am looking for a 446 stainless steel wire mesh.<br>
Have you ever worked with silicon carbide mesh?<br>
It is used as an emitter in thermophotovoltaics.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Anand Karve <<a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com" target="_blank">adkarve@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Dear Paul,<br>
even stainless steel is no good. At high temperature, it corrodes and crumbles into pieces.<br>
Yours<br>
A.D.Karve<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Steve Taylor <<a href="mailto:steve@thetaylorfamily.org.uk" target="_blank">steve@thetaylorfamily.org.uk</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 5 March 2012 02:56, Paul Olivier <<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
I know that a tungsten wire mesh exists.<br>
But no doubt this would be too expensive.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Tungsten will oxidise to nothing very quickly. Probably Incoloy would be ideal<br>
<br>
Steve<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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27C Pham Hong Thai Street<br>
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Vietnam<br>
<br>
Louisiana telephone: <a href="tel:1-337-447-4124" value="+13374474124" target="_blank">1-337-447-4124</a> (rings Vietnam)<br>
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27C Pham Hong Thai Street<br>
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27C Pham Hong Thai Street<br>
Dalat<br>
Vietnam<br>
<br>
Louisiana telephone: <a href="tel:1-337-447-4124" value="+13374474124" target="_blank">1-337-447-4124</a> (rings Vietnam)<br>
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>
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**************************************<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>27C Pham Hong Thai Street<br>Dalat<br>Vietnam<br><br>Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)<br>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>
Skype address: Xpolivier<br><a href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a><br>