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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Dear Paul</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=paul.olivier@esrla.com href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com">Paul
Olivier</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 15, 2012 3:31
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] radiant heat
capture, total heat measurement</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>As you all recall, Belonio and I, using the same reactor and the same
burner,<BR> report a difference in boiling times.<BR>I was bringing a
liter of water to a boil in about half the time that Belonio was
reporting.<BR>I assumed this was because of the dome.<BR>But this assumption
now appears to be completely wrong.</DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>
<DIV><BR>The dome does not reduce in any way the amount of time it takes to
bring a liter of water to a boil.<BR>In an experiment this morning, I took the
dome off the burner<BR> and put the pan of water at exactly the same
height as if the dome were in place.<BR>I did a second experiment with the
dome in place.<BR>The boiling times were exactly the same with or without the
dome.<BR>I apologize to you all in leading you to think that thermal radiation
was making a big difference.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial># No problem!! You raised some interesting questions
relating to stove operation and improvement.</FONT><BR><BR>So now the only
thing that remains to account for the difference<BR> in boiling times
between Belonio and me is the burner housing that I put around the
burner.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial># OK!! A 50% reduction in boiling time is very
significant. What can you now tell us that will enable us to apply it to other
stoves and combustion conditions?</FONT></DIV><FONT
face=Arial></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Thanks!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Kevin</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>The burner housing feeds secondary to the burner holes.<BR>What you
see here:<BR><A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZDt8DfgSls">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZDt8DfgSls</A><BR> appears
to be just as efficient as what you see here:<BR><A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO3jcbQj-GI">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO3jcbQj-GI</A><BR><BR>Here
is a picture of the burner with burner housing:<BR><A
href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier/Boiling/IMG_1024a.JPG">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier/Boiling/IMG_1024a.JPG</A><BR>The
two parts are welded together.<BR><BR>Also I did another test in which I
boiled water without the dome -<BR> but this time at about one inch lower
than the dome pan height.<BR>This put the pan one inch closer to the
flames.<BR>Again there was no difference at all in boiling times.<BR><BR>Also
I took several temperature readings:<BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<OL>
<LI>with the probe as close as possible to the blue flames: 646 C (probe
turned red)<BR>
<LI>with the dome in place and at the top of the dome: 463 C
<LI>with the dome removed but with the probe at the same height as if the
dome were there: 532 C (probe turned red)<BR>
<LI>with the dome and with a pan of water above it: 390 C (probe situated in
between the two)</LI></OL>
<P>Thanks.</P>
<P>Paul<BR></P><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 9:26 AM, Tom Miles <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com">tmiles@trmiles.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>Alex, Paul,<BR><BR>One option is to use a suction
pyrometer in which you pull the hot gas past<BR>the thermocouple in a tube.
The tube limits the radiation so you get a<BR>better picture of the true
temperature. Temperatures can be about 90C (200F)<BR>higher in the suction
pyrometer than in a boiler or free air. A simple<BR>version can be made with
compressed air venture drawing air through a pipe<BR>with a thermocouple
inside it.<BR><SPAN class=HOEnZb><FONT
color=#888888><BR>Tom<BR></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV class="im HOEnZb"><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: <A
href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR>[mailto:<A
href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>]
On Behalf Of Alex English<BR>Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 6:18 PM<BR>To:
Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<BR>Subject: Re: [Stoves] radiant heat
capture, total heat measurement<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=HOEnZb>
<DIV class=h5>Paul,<BR>So this makes sense. The screen radiates away heat
leaving a cooler gas<BR>beyond.<BR>If your thermocouple were smaller or
shielded the difference would likely be<BR>even greater because the
thermocouple looses more heat from radiation when<BR>it is
hotter.<BR><BR>Or are there other reasons, too?<BR>Alex<BR><BR><BR><BR>On
14/03/2012 7:36 PM, Paul Olivier wrote:<BR>> There are problems with what
I have written below.<BR>> Let me again.<BR>><BR>> Without the
dome, the probe encounters hot gases and registers a<BR>> temperature of
563 C.<BR>> It turns red hot and starts emitting thermal
radiation.<BR>><BR>> With the dome, the probe encounter hot gases as
well as thermal radiation.<BR>> But it only registers a temperature of
500 C.<BR>> It does not turn red hot.<BR>> Therefore the probe does
not absorb thermal radiation from the dome<BR>> very
well.<BR>><BR>> Thanks.<BR>>
Paul<BR>><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves
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clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Paul A. Olivier PhD<BR>27C Pham Hong Thai
Street<BR>Dalat<BR>Vietnam<BR><BR>Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings
Vietnam)<BR>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<BR>Skype address:
Xpolivier<BR><A href="http://www.esrla.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.esrla.com/</A><BR>
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<P align=left color="#000000" avgcert??>No virus found in this
message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A
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Database: 2114/4870 - Release Date: 03/14/12</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>