<div>Dear Stovers,</div>
<div>being a biologist, I am totally ignorant of the physics involved in this discussion. 2 thoughts however came to my mind. Would the efficiency of a TLUD or Rocket improve by fixing a wire gauze dome over the flame? Can a flat piece of wire gauze work or does it have to be a dome?</div>
<div>Yours</div>
<div>A.D.Karve<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 5:46 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ajheggie@gmail.com">ajheggie@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">[Default] On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 08:36:41 -0300,"Kevin"<br><<a href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>><br>>One way to look at it is that "Blue Flames are too smart by half." :-) There<br>>is a gain in completeness of combustion, and probably higher temperature for<br>>"products of combustion", and reduced sooting of pots, BUT there is a<br>
>significant loss in luminosity, and heat transfer to the pot by radiation.<br>>The Mesh Dome, heated by direct convection of the "blue flame" then is in a<br>>position to add a "radiation contribution" to heat transfer capability.<br>
<br>Yes<br>><br>>It would be a very interesting experiment to take a "flame temperature" of<br>>Paul Oliver's system, with, and without the dome. My guess is that the<br>>"flame temperature" of the "Blue Flame", and the gases leaving the dome<br>
>would be similar, and relatively low, even though the actual thermocouple<br>>measured temperature of the gases would be high. In very simplistic terms<br>>(for illustrative purposes only)<br>>1: Blue Flame temperature by radiation measurement: 1000<br>
>2: Gas temperature above dome (radiation) 1000<br>>3: Thermometer temperature of both gases 1500<br>>4: Flame Emissivity of 1: and 2: .2<br>>5: Flame emissivity for luminous flame: .8<br>
<br>it looks like Paul has done thios now<br>><br>>Thus, if some of the pyrolysis gases were diverted away from the "blue flame<br>>conditions", and were allowed to increase the flame luminosity, there could<br>
>potentially be an opportunity to "have your cake and eat it." More<br>>specifically, the addition of some "luminous fractions" to the flame could,<br>>for example increase flame luminosity to say .6. but with a drop in actual<br>
>gas temperature to say 1300 because of incompleteness of combustion.<br><br>The trouble is that could increase PICs leaving the flame unburnt.<br><br>>So.... if the concepts are correct, then it would seem that the best way to<br>
>make a stove would be to make one with a burner that produced BOTH yellow<br>>flame(for luminosity) and a blue flame (for completeness of combustion).<br><br>Having got a good, short, premixed flame I wouldn't advocate going<br>
back to a diffusion flame.<br><br>There is an example from the past where a chamical was added to town<br>gas to make a yeallow flame, I think it was called carburetted gas,<br>and a sall amount of petrol vapour was added to the CO+H2 mixture but<br>
this was before gas manteles were available. I think gas mantles t=do<br>a better job as the light radiator because of the excitation<br>characteristics of thorium being better than glowing sooty particles.<br><br>AJH<br>
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-- <br>***<br>Dr. A.D. Karve<br>Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br><br><br>