<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Dear Ron,<br>
<br>
AGW-theory began as a theory, became a religion, turned into a form
of reactionary statism _and_ is being largely rejected, partly--
aside from the bad science and overwhelming number of uncheckable
variables involved in the models-- because rapaciously greedy men
lied and were exposed. Why are you so religiously following one of
the financial schemes based on the lie? I just don't get it. When an
advertising agency is running a promotion for something for one of
their clients and finds out the client is lying about a product it
seems that they are morally obliged to quit the campaign or face
recriminatory legal action. Sorry, Ron, but you are logically
challenged on your claim that anyone trying to tell the truth about
anthropogenic global warming is detrimental to bettering stoves,
simply because selling any program based on lies is detrimental to
sustainable success of that program-- when the truth gets out, it
will be discredited because it is linked emotionally in the minds of
the customers with the lie, from which they -- rightly-- wish to
reject and distance themselves. It appears to me that you have
emotional "stock" in a carbon credits scheme which is clouding your
thinking even more so than Denver's smog might be, as repugnant as
that may be to you. <br>
<br>
Lastly, as a point of history, are you convinced that "all" of the
desertification in Sudan is due to commercial charcoal production?<br>
<br>
Ronald von bayr. Betonificationnation<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 23.06.2012 20:54,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1118696453.1467520.1340477669618.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net"
type="cite">
<style type="text/css">p { margin: 0; }</style>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000">Andrew
Parker and list:<br>
<br>
As in my last reply to Ronald H, I don't see that you are
providing links that will help lead to better stoves. Lists
like the three in your "P.S." have zero interest in what this
list is about - and in fact I believe all three are doing a good
job of making sure we are unsuccessful in bringing about better
stoves. <br>
<br>
Your motivation (first sentence) for getting into this topic
is much like many on the list. I started personally with
concern about the desertification disaster happening in Sudan -
all because of charcoal production in that country's
boondocks. Charcoal-making stoves can help a lot with
desertification/deforestation, even if the char is used by
others for cooking - because most present char production is so
horrible. <br>
<br>
But many of us on this list have come to see the char as
being better for everyone if placed in the ground. Carbon
credits will be helpful in that regard. If done appropriately,
they can also do a lot to prevent (not encourage) what you
rightfully deplore. The issue for this list should be on
any/every approach that will give developing country stove users
better stoves. With charcoal-making stoves, stove users can
even make money while cooking, while meeting your two concerns:
saving forests and gaining better health.<br>
<br>
These topics, which seem important to you, should be on the
table at Rio + 20 - and I can't see that they are. Because, in
part, of the three sites listed below in your "P.S."<br>
<br>
Ron<br>
<br>
<br>
<hr id="zwchr"><b>From: </b>"Andrew C. Parker"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:acparker@xmission.com"><acparker@xmission.com></a><br>
<b>To: </b>"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org></a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:35:47 AM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Stoves] interesting link<br>
<br>
My interest in efficient stoves was spurred by deforestation and
health <br>
concerns. Now the forests I was trying to protect are slated to
be <br>
cleared to make way for palm oil plantations to feed the carbon
credits <br>
farce. The people whose lives I hoped to improve are also being
cleared <br>
and forced into refugee camps. An environment that supported
upwards of <br>
100,000 will support only a few hundred. For what? For whom?<br>
<br>
Invoking the Precautionary Principle, we force the very people
we seek to <br>
protect with our policies into immediate devastation, misery and
death, <br>
rather than position ourselves to assist in the event that
something bad <br>
might, maybe, perhaps happen to them sometime in the next 100 to
100,000 <br>
years as a result of man caused CO2 release. This is Climate
Justice?<br>
<br>
Its anthropogenic, but the suffering isn't because of climate
change.<br>
<br>
<br>
Andrew Parker (not AJH)<br>
<br>
<br>
P.S. If you don't like Climate Depot, try wattsupwiththat.com,
or for <br>
math heads, climateaudit.org (I try, but it gives me a
migraine).<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our
web site:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a>
</pre>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<p class="avgcert" color="#000000" align="left">No virus found in
this message.<br>
Checked by AVG - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><br>
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date:
06/22/12</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>