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<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial>Dear Dean</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=deankstill@gmail.com href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">Dean
Still</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, June 24, 2012 12:43
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] interesting
link</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Hi Steve,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>As you say, folks are entitled to their opinions. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Learning how to help people to use less biomass to cook, breathe less
smoke, is as much a part of the 'world of stoves' as the research,
development, manufacturing of stoves. Carbon credit financing has been a very
helpful part of the picture and hopefully will continue to subsidize better
stoves. In my opinion, the arguing over whether climate change is caused by
humans is a separate topic and is not very well related to the
intentions of this list.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial># If Climate Change is not primarily caused by
humans, then Carbon Credits are dead. Would you agree with that
opinion?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial># Even if Climate Change is caused mainly by
anthropogenic activity, I would suggest that most World Governments are "tight
for money", and will not support Carbon Credits... not because they don't want
to, but rather, because they will have more immediate and pressing priorities.
Would you agree with that opinion?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial>#It would thus appear to be very risky to build a
stove or Biochar Project under conditions where Carbon Credits were necessary
for its success. Would you agree with that opinion?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial>Best wishes,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial>Kevin</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Best,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Dean<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 7:18 AM, Steven Wilson <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:swilson61@hotmail.com"
target=_blank>swilson61@hotmail.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Hi all,<BR> <BR>Of course everyone is entitled to their
own view on whether anthropogenic climate change is a reality. And if you
don't believe it is then certainly supporting any carbon offset
scheme would be a scandal for your conscience. However many of
us (including myself) are of the firm view that it is a
reality. And that being the case I believe carbon offsets can be a
legitimate and helpful tool if done properly. <BR> <BR>I am trying to
implement a stove project among the urban poor in
the slums of India. Our community surveys have indicated that
people would love the opportunity to cook smoke-free, however on
average the survey respondents reported only being able to afford Rs 75
($1.35) for a new stove. It's all very well to say "just make good products
that people want to buy", but decent improved cookstoves are financially
well out of the reach of many who could benefit from them. Through
carbon offsets there is however the potential to bring them within
reach. So we are looking to sell carbon offsets to individuals in the
voluntary carbon offset market to fund the stoves, thereby making a
project in the slums viable.<BR> <BR>Sure, some carbon offset schemes
may be poorly designed and have negative consequences - they need to be
prevented. But surely the whole concept should not receive the
condemnation only some projects deserve.<BR> <BR>Regards,<BR>Steve
Wilson<BR><BR> <BR>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> From: <A
href="mailto:stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR>> Subject:
Stoves Digest, Vol 22, Issue 27<BR>> To: <A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR>> Date: Sat, 23 Jun
2012 12:00:38 -0700<BR>> <BR>> Send Stoves mailing list submissions
to<BR>> <A href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
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You can reach the person managing the list at<BR>> <A
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>>
than "Re: Contents of Stoves digest..."<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Today's
Topics:<BR>> <BR>> 1. interesting link (Ronald Hongsermeier)<BR>>
2. Re: interesting link (Ron Larson)<BR>> 3. Re: interesting link (Ronald
Hongsermeier)<BR>> 4. Re: interesting link (<A
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net"
target=_blank>rongretlarson@comcast.net</A>)<BR>> 5. Re: interesting link
(Andrew C. Parker)<BR>> 6. Re: interesting link (Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott)<BR>> 7. Re: interesting link (<A
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net"
target=_blank>rongretlarson@comcast.net</A>)<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>
<BR>> Message: 1<BR>> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:07:37 +0200<BR>>
From: Ronald Hongsermeier <<A href="mailto:rwhongser@web.de"
target=_blank>rwhongser@web.de</A>><BR>> To: Discussion of biomass
cooking stoves<BR>> <<A href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>><BR>> Subject:
[Stoves] interesting link<BR>> Message-ID: <<A
href="mailto:4FE58759.2080206@web.de"
target=_blank>4FE58759.2080206@web.de</A>><BR>> Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<BR>> <BR>> <A
href="http://www.climatedepot.com/a/9035/SPECIAL-REPORT-More-Than-1000-International-Scientists-Dissent-Over-ManMade-Global-Warming-Claims--Challenge-UN-IPCC--Gore#.T-VJ6M92ky8.facebook"
target=_blank>http://www.climatedepot.com/a/9035/SPECIAL-REPORT-More-Than-1000-International-Scientists-Dissent-Over-ManMade-Global-Warming-Claims--Challenge-UN-IPCC--Gore#.T-VJ6M92ky8.facebook</A>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
------------------------------<BR>> <BR>> Message: 2<BR>> Date:
Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:58:23 -0600<BR>> From: Ron Larson <<A
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net"
target=_blank>rongretlarson@comcast.net</A>><BR>> To: Discussion of
biomass cooking stoves<BR>> <<A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>><BR>> Cc: Discussion
of biomass cooking stoves<BR>> <<A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>><BR>> Subject: Re:
[Stoves] interesting link<BR>> Message-ID: <<A
href="mailto:DDD65262-6712-4F32-A765-0AC2F7F550A8@comcast.net"
target=_blank>DDD65262-6712-4F32-A765-0AC2F7F550A8@comcast.net</A>><BR>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<BR>> <BR>> Ronald and
list:<BR>> <BR>> I have glanced through this cite - and wonder what
relationship it has to stoves?<BR>> <BR>> Ron<BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> On Jun 23, 2012, at 3:07 AM, Ronald Hongsermeier <<A
href="mailto:rwhongser@web.de" target=_blank>rwhongser@web.de</A>>
wrote:<BR>> <BR>> > <A
href="http://www.climatedepot.com/a/9035/SPECIAL-REPORT-More-Than-1000-International-Scientists-Dissent-Over-ManMade-Global-Warming-Claims--Challenge-UN-IPCC--Gore#.T-VJ6M92ky8.facebook"
target=_blank>http://www.climatedepot.com/a/9035/SPECIAL-REPORT-More-Than-1000-International-Scientists-Dissent-Over-ManMade-Global-Warming-Claims--Challenge-UN-IPCC--Gore#.T-VJ6M92ky8.facebook</A>
<BR>> > <BR>> >
_______________________________________________<BR>> > Stoves mailing
list<BR>> > <BR>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<BR>> > <A href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR>> > <BR>> >
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<BR>> > <A
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR>>
> <BR>> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see
our web site:<BR>> > <A href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"
target=_blank>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</A><BR>> > <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ------------------------------<BR>> <BR>>
Message: 3<BR>> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 18:17:21 +0200<BR>> From:
Ronald Hongsermeier <<A href="mailto:rwhongser@web.de"
target=_blank>rwhongser@web.de</A>><BR>> To: Discussion of biomass
cooking stoves<BR>> <<A href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>><BR>> Subject: Re:
[Stoves] interesting link<BR>> Message-ID: <<A
href="mailto:4FE5EC11.1040701@web.de"
target=_blank>4FE5EC11.1040701@web.de</A>><BR>> Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<BR>> <BR>> Dear Mr.
AbovecloudlevelinColorado Larson,<BR>> <BR>> Think of it as motivation
for coming up with more rational helps to get <BR>> people into thinking
about efficiency in their stove use and sales than <BR>> carbon
credits.<BR>> :D<BR>> <BR>> regards,<BR>> Ronald von
UnterderwolkendeckeninBayern<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> On 23.06.2012 16:58, Ron Larson wrote:<BR>> > Ronald and
list:<BR>> ><BR>> > I have glanced through this cite - and
wonder what relationship it has to stoves?<BR>> ><BR>> >
Ron<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > On Jun 23, 2012, at
3:07 AM, Ronald Hongsermeier <<A href="mailto:rwhongser@web.de"
target=_blank>rwhongser@web.de</A>> wrote:<BR>> ><BR>> >>
<A
href="http://www.climatedepot.com/a/9035/SPECIAL-REPORT-More-Than-1000-International-Scientists-Dissent-Over-ManMade-Global-Warming-Claims--Challenge-UN-IPCC--Gore#.T-VJ6M92ky8.facebook"
target=_blank>http://www.climatedepot.com/a/9035/SPECIAL-REPORT-More-Than-1000-International-Scientists-Dissent-Over-ManMade-Global-Warming-Claims--Challenge-UN-IPCC--Gore#.T-VJ6M92ky8.facebook</A><BR>>
>><BR>> >>
_______________________________________________<BR>> >> Stoves
mailing list<BR>> >><BR>> >> to Send a Message to the
list, use the email address<BR>> >> <A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR>> >><BR>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web
page<BR>> >> <A
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target=_blank>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR>>
>><BR>> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and
Information see our web site:<BR>> >> <A
href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"
target=_blank>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</A><BR>> >><BR>>
> _______________________________________________<BR>> > Stoves
mailing list<BR>> ><BR>> > to Send a Message to the list, use
the email address<BR>> > <A
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><BR>> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see
our web site:<BR>> > <A href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"
target=_blank>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</A><BR>> ><BR>>
><BR>> ><BR>> > -----<BR>> > No virus found in this
message.<BR>> > Checked by AVG - <A href="http://www.avg.com"
target=_blank>www.avg.com</A><BR>> > Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus
Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12<BR>> ><BR>>
><BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
------------------------------<BR>> <BR>> Message: 4<BR>> Date:
Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:05:18 +0000 (UTC)<BR>> From: <A
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net"
target=_blank>rongretlarson@comcast.net</A><BR>> To: Discussion of
biomass cooking stoves<BR>> <<A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>><BR>> Subject: Re:
[Stoves] interesting link<BR>> Message-ID:<BR>> <<A
href="mailto:1238849211.1464511.1340471118290.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net"
target=_blank>1238849211.1464511.1340471118290.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net</A>><BR>>
<BR>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<BR>> <BR>> Ronald
<BR>> <BR>> Yours is a worthy goal, but you've picked the wrong cite.
ClimateDepot is well known as a place which thinks energy efficiency is for
wimps. Of course they obviously know everything there is to be known about
cost efficiency. <BR>> <BR>> Still hope you can find a reference that
mentions stoves. <BR>> <BR>> Ron Larson (aka von
oberhalbdemSmogaufDenver) <BR>> <BR>> ----- Original Message
-----<BR>> From: "Ronald Hongsermeier" <<A
href="mailto:rwhongser@web.de" target=_blank>rwhongser@web.de</A>>
<BR>> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>> <BR>> Sent:
Saturday, June 23, 2012 10:17:21 AM <BR>> Subject: Re: [Stoves]
interesting link <BR>> <BR>> Dear Mr. AbovecloudlevelinColorado
Larson, <BR>> <BR>> Think of it as motivation for coming up with more
rational helps to get <BR>> people into thinking about efficiency in
their stove use and sales than <BR>> carbon credits. <BR>> :D <BR>>
<BR>> regards, <BR>> Ronald von UnterderwolkendeckeninBayern <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> On 23.06.2012 16:58, Ron Larson
wrote: <BR>> > Ronald and list: <BR>> > <BR>> > I have
glanced through this cite - and wonder what relationship it has to stoves?
<BR>> > <BR>> > Ron <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
<BR>> > On Jun 23, 2012, at 3:07 AM, Ronald Hongsermeier <<A
href="mailto:rwhongser@web.de" target=_blank>rwhongser@web.de</A>> wrote:
<BR>> > <BR>> >> <A
href="http://www.climatedepot.com/a/9035/SPECIAL-REPORT-More-Than-1000-International-Scientists-Dissent-Over-ManMade-Global-Warming-Claims--Challenge-UN-IPCC--Gore#.T-VJ6M92ky8.facebook"
target=_blank>http://www.climatedepot.com/a/9035/SPECIAL-REPORT-More-Than-1000-International-Scientists-Dissent-Over-ManMade-Global-Warming-Claims--Challenge-UN-IPCC--Gore#.T-VJ6M92ky8.facebook</A>
<BR>> >> <BR>> >>
_______________________________________________ <BR>> >> Stoves
mailing list <BR>> >> <BR>> >> to Send a Message to the
list, use the email address <BR>> >> <A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A> <BR>> >> <BR>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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target=_blank>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</A>
<BR>> >> <BR>> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News
and Information see our web site: <BR>> >> <A
href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"
target=_blank>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</A> <BR>> >> <BR>>
> _______________________________________________ <BR>> > Stoves
mailing list <BR>> > <BR>> > to Send a Message to the list, use
the email address <BR>> > <A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
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target=_blank>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</A>
<BR>> > <BR>> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and
Information see our web site: <BR>> > <A
href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"
target=_blank>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</A> <BR>> > <BR>> >
<BR>> > <BR>> > ----- <BR>> > No virus found in this
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Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12 <BR>> > <BR>> >
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
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<BR>> <BR>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see
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target=_blank>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</A> <BR>> <BR>>
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<BR>> ------------------------------<BR>> <BR>> Message: 5<BR>>
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:35:47 -0600<BR>> From: "Andrew C. Parker"
<<A href="mailto:acparker@xmission.com"
target=_blank>acparker@xmission.com</A>><BR>> To: "Discussion of
biomass cooking stoves"<BR>> <<A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>><BR>> Subject: Re:
[Stoves] interesting link<BR>> Message-ID:
<op.wgc9txbauoov7l@user-8ezctxe031><BR>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed;<BR>> delsp=yes<BR>> <BR>> My
interest in efficient stoves was spurred by deforestation and health
<BR>> concerns. Now the forests I was trying to protect are slated to be
<BR>> cleared to make way for palm oil plantations to feed the carbon
credits <BR>> farce. The people whose lives I hoped to improve are also
being cleared <BR>> and forced into refugee camps. An environment that
supported upwards of <BR>> 100,000 will support only a few hundred. For
what? For whom?<BR>> <BR>> Invoking the Precautionary Principle, we
force the very people we seek to <BR>> protect with our policies into
immediate devastation, misery and death, <BR>> rather than position
ourselves to assist in the event that something bad <BR>> might, maybe,
perhaps happen to them sometime in the next 100 to 100,000 <BR>> years as
a result of man caused CO2 release. This is Climate Justice?<BR>>
<BR>> Its anthropogenic, but the suffering isn't because of climate
change.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Andrew Parker (not AJH)<BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> P.S. If you don't like Climate Depot, try <A
href="http://wattsupwiththat.com" target=_blank>wattsupwiththat.com</A>, or
for <BR>> math heads, <A href="http://climateaudit.org"
target=_blank>climateaudit.org</A> (I try, but it gives me a
migraine).<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
------------------------------<BR>> <BR>> Message: 6<BR>> Date:
Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:46:45 -0400<BR>> From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott"
<<A href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com"
target=_blank>crispinpigott@gmail.com</A>><BR>> To: "'Discussion of
biomass cooking stoves'"<BR>> <<A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>><BR>> Subject: Re:
[Stoves] interesting link<BR>> Message-ID:
<011901cd5170$8aef7bb0$a0ce7310$@<A href="http://gmail.com"
target=_blank>gmail.com</A>><BR>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"<BR>> <BR>> Dear Andrew P<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> I appreciate all three sites you mentioned precisely because of the
math!<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> To my surprise there was on the CBC
(a relentlessly Warmist channel) an<BR>> interview today with a lady who
was very well informed on the miseries to<BR>> which the dispossessed
poor are victims of the new green-grab, they called<BR>> it, where the
carbon cowboys roll into town to 'save the forests' and make<BR>>
megabucks in the process.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> There was a
discussion on WUWT of the stoves programmes, mostly GACC,<BR>> attacking
the EPA for touting ridiculous plans. I engaged some of the<BR>> bloggers
pointing out the pretty serious errors in logic (that fuel contains<BR>>
'inherent emissions' of PM and all that nonsense) pointing out the<BR>>
remarkable success achieved in only 1 year in Ulaanbaatar using an
open<BR>> mind, knowledge of good combustion and a real time test
protocol (HTP). With<BR>> emissions down more than 99% (which I assume
LBLN's Henrick Wallman will<BR>> talk about in his upcoming webinar)
there was a pretty solid rebuttal of the<BR>> knee-jerk comments that
stoves are all smoky and messy and need to be<BR>> replaced by good,
clean propane.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> More to the correct topic:
the pillaging of the standing forests is a new<BR>> type of colonialism
where 'green activists' appropriate all local rights of<BR>> use so they
can make money selling offsets to the West. What makes it so<BR>> galling
is the defectiveness of the foundational argument - that human cause<BR>>
CO2 emissions are dramatically (or even detectably) warming the planet -
and<BR>> the bull-headed resistance to the mounting evidence that the
educated guess<BR>> taken 25 years ago by Hansen et al was wrong.<BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> My advice remains the same: do not put money into
a stove programme that<BR>> depends on carbon trading for survival. Just
make good products that people<BR>> want to buy. <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> Regards<BR>> <BR>> Crispin<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> +++++<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> My interest in efficient
stoves was spurred by deforestation and health<BR>> concerns. Now the
forests I was trying to protect are slated to be cleared<BR>> to make way
for palm oil plantations to feed the carbon credits farce. The<BR>>
people whose lives I hoped to improve are also being cleared and forced
into<BR>> refugee camps. An environment that supported upwards of<BR>>
<BR>> 100,000 will support only a few hundred. For what? For
whom?<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Invoking the Precautionary
Principle, we force the very people we seek to<BR>> protect with our
policies into immediate devastation, misery and death,<BR>> rather than
position ourselves to assist in the event that something bad<BR>> might,
maybe, perhaps happen to them sometime in the next 100 to 100,000<BR>>
years as a result of man caused CO2 release. This is Climate
Justice?<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Its anthropogenic, but the
suffering isn't because of climate change.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Andrew Parker (not AJH)<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> P.S. If you don't like Climate Depot, try <A
href="http://wattsupwiththat.com" target=_blank>wattsupwiththat.com</A>, or
for math<BR>> heads, <A href="http://climateaudit.org"
target=_blank>climateaudit.org</A> (I try, but it gives me a
migraine).<BR>> <BR>> -------------- next part --------------<BR>>
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<BR>> ------------------------------<BR>> <BR>> Message: 7<BR>>
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 18:54:29 +0000 (UTC)<BR>> From: <A
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net"
target=_blank>rongretlarson@comcast.net</A><BR>> To: Discussion of
biomass cooking stoves<BR>> <<A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>>, "Andrew C.
Parker"<BR>> <<A href="mailto:acparker@xmission.com"
target=_blank>acparker@xmission.com</A>><BR>> Subject: Re: [Stoves]
interesting link<BR>> Message-ID:<BR>> <<A
href="mailto:1118696453.1467520.1340477669618.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net"
target=_blank>1118696453.1467520.1340477669618.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net</A>><BR>>
<BR>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<BR>> <BR>> Andrew
Parker and list : <BR>> <BR>> As in my last reply to Ronald H, I don't
see that you are providing links that will help lead to better stoves. Lists
like the three in your "P.S." have zero interest in what this list is about
- and in fact I believe all three are doing a good job of making sure we are
unsuccessful in bringing about better stoves. <BR>> <BR>> Your
motivation (first sentence) for getting into this topic is much like many on
the list. I started personally with concern about the desertification
disaster happening in Sudan - all because of charcoal production in that
country's boondocks. Charcoal-making stoves can help a lot with
desertification/deforestation, even if the char is used by others for
cooking - because most present char production is so horrible. <BR>>
<BR>> But many of us on this list have come to see the char as being
better for everyone if placed in the ground. Carbon credits will be helpful
in that regard. If done appropriately, they can also do a lot to prevent
(not encourage) what you rightfully deplore. The issue for this list should
be on any/every approach that will give developing country stove users
better stoves. With charcoal-making stoves, stove users can even make money
while cooking, while meeting your two concerns: saving forests and gaining
better health. <BR>> <BR>> These topics, which seem important to you,
should be on the table at Rio + 20 - and I can't see that they are. Because,
in part, of the three sites listed below in your "P.S." <BR>> <BR>>
Ron <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ----- Original Message -----<BR>> From:
"Andrew C. Parker" <<A href="mailto:acparker@xmission.com"
target=_blank>acparker@xmission.com</A>> <BR>> To: "Discussion of
biomass cooking stoves" <<A href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>> <BR>> Sent:
Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:35:47 AM <BR>> Subject: Re: [Stoves]
interesting link <BR>> <BR>> My interest in efficient stoves was
spurred by deforestation and health <BR>> concerns. Now the forests I was
trying to protect are slated to be <BR>> cleared to make way for palm oil
plantations to feed the carbon credits <BR>> farce. The people whose
lives I hoped to improve are also being cleared <BR>> and forced into
refugee camps. An environment that supported upwards of <BR>> 100,000
will support only a few hundred. For what? For whom? <BR>> <BR>>
Invoking the Precautionary Principle, we force the very people we seek to
<BR>> protect with our policies into immediate devastation, misery and
death, <BR>> rather than position ourselves to assist in the event that
something bad <BR>> might, maybe, perhaps happen to them sometime in the
next 100 to 100,000 <BR>> years as a result of man caused CO2 release.
This is Climate Justice? <BR>> <BR>> Its anthropogenic, but the
suffering isn't because of climate change. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Andrew
Parker (not AJH) <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> P.S. If you don't like Climate
Depot, try <A href="http://wattsupwiththat.com"
target=_blank>wattsupwiththat.com</A>, or for <BR>> math heads, <A
href="http://climateaudit.org" target=_blank>climateaudit.org</A> (I try,
but it gives me a migraine). <BR>> <BR>>
_______________________________________________ <BR>> Stoves mailing list
<BR>> <BR>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<BR>> <A href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A> <BR>> <BR>> to
UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page <BR>> <A
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</A>
<BR>> <BR>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see
our web site: <BR>> <A href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"
target=_blank>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</A> <BR>> <BR>>
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_______________________________________________<BR>> Stoves mailing
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target=_blank>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</A><BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
End of Stoves Digest, Vol 22, Issue 27<BR>>
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