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<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial>Dear David </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>From: "CEDESOL Foundation" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:lists.cedesol@gmail.com"><FONT
face=Arial>lists.cedesol@gmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2012 5:31 PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Subject: Re: [Stoves] interesting link</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>>I agree with Dean's assessment and position on this
issue.<BR>> <BR>> The voluntary carbon market does not depend on
governments</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=4># Quite true. However, they do depend on a
"Generous Public" who believe that their voluntary purchases of Carbon Credits
will make a positive difference to Climate. At the present, there are many such
"Generous Public", who basically believe the position of the IPCC. The
point of Ron H's link is that there are approximately twice as many Climate
Scientists of equal or greater competence who disagree with the IPCC position,
based on actual science and not simply a "consensus."</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=4></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=4># The required support from the
"Generous Public" will decrease as IPCC credibility decreases. It does appear
that IPCC credibility is now on the decline. Anyone, with an open mind, reading
the 321 page report that Ron H submitted </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=4>( at <A
href="http://ec.libsyn.com/p/b/f/6/bf663fd2376ffeca/2010_Senate_Minority_Report.pdf?d13a76d516d9dec20c3d276ce028ed5089ab1ce3dae902ea1d01cc8732d6ce596490&c_id=2869473">http://ec.libsyn.com/p/b/f/6/bf663fd2376ffeca/2010_Senate_Minority_Report.pdf?d13a76d516d9dec20c3d276ce028ed5089ab1ce3dae902ea1d01cc8732d6ce596490&c_id=2869473</A></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial>is sure to question IPCC's credibility.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial># This Report was presented to the US Senate, and
to the UN Climate Change Conference in Cancun. Is it any wonder that the
Governmental Support of the activities and expenditures advocated by the IPCC is
wanting?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial># See also the Report: "A-Z Climate Reality Check,
at: </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial><A
href="http://cfact.org/pdf/ClimateDepot_A-Z_ClimateRealityCheck.pdf">http://cfact.org/pdf/ClimateDepot_A-Z_ClimateRealityCheck.pdf</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial># "Close minded Believers" will simply shoot down
the Reports, simply because they are posted on Climate Depot. People with open
minds will read the content of the Reports, and accept or reject their
content based on the correctness or wrongness of the Science and facts
presented. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial>Best wishes,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial>Kevin Chisholm</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>> <BR>> Best wishes stovers<BR>> David<BR>> <BR>> On
6/24/12, Dean Still <</FONT><A href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com"><FONT
face=Arial>deankstill@gmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>>
wrote:<BR>>> Hi Steve,<BR>>><BR>>> As you say, folks are
entitled to their opinions.<BR>>><BR>>> Learning how to help people
to use less biomass to cook, breathe less<BR>>> smoke, is as much a part
of the 'world of stoves' as the research,<BR>>> development, manufacturing
of stoves. Carbon credit financing has been a<BR>>> very helpful part of
the picture and hopefully will continue to subsidize<BR>>> better stoves.
In my opinion, the arguing over whether climate change is<BR>>> caused by
humans is a separate topic and is not very well related to the<BR>>>
intentions of this list.<BR>>><BR>>> Best,<BR>>><BR>>>
Dean<BR>>><BR>>> On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 7:18 AM, Steven
Wilson<BR>>> <</FONT><A href="mailto:swilson61@hotmail.com>wrote"><FONT
face=Arial>swilson61@hotmail.com>wrote</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>:<BR>>><BR>>>> Hi
all,<BR>>>><BR>>>> Of course everyone is entitled to their own
view on whether anthropogenic<BR>>>> climate change is a reality. And
if you don't believe it is then<BR>>>> certainly<BR>>>>
supporting any carbon offset scheme would be a scandal for your<BR>>>>
conscience.<BR>>>> However many of us (including myself) are of the
firm view that it is a<BR>>>> reality. And that being the case I
believe carbon offsets can be a<BR>>>> legitimate and helpful tool if
done properly.<BR>>>><BR>>>> I am trying to implement a stove
project among the urban poor in<BR>>>> the slums of India. Our
community surveys have indicated that people<BR>>>>
would<BR>>>> love the opportunity to cook smoke-free, however on
average the survey<BR>>>> respondents reported only being able to
afford Rs 75 ($1.35) for a new<BR>>>> stove. It's all very well to say
"just make good products that people<BR>>>> want<BR>>>> to
buy", but decent improved cookstoves are financially well out of
the<BR>>>> reach of many who could benefit from them. Through carbon
offsets there<BR>>>> is<BR>>>> however the potential to bring
them within reach. So we are looking to<BR>>>> sell<BR>>>>
carbon offsets to individuals in the voluntary carbon offset market
to<BR>>>> fund<BR>>>> the stoves, thereby making a project in
the slums viable.<BR>>>><BR>>>> Sure, some carbon offset
schemes may be poorly designed and have negative<BR>>>> consequences -
they need to be prevented. But surely the whole concept<BR>>>> should
not receive the condemnation only some projects
deserve.<BR>>>><BR>>>> Regards,<BR>>>> Steve
Wilson<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>> > From: </FONT><A
href="mailto:stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> > Subject: Stoves Digest, Vol 22, Issue
27<BR>>>> > To: </FONT><A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> > Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:00:38
-0700<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > Send Stoves mailing list
submissions to<BR>>>> > </FONT><A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> ><BR>>>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe
via the World Wide Web, visit<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> </FONT><A
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> ><BR>>>> > or, via email, send a message
with subject or body 'help' to<BR>>>> > </FONT><A
href="mailto:stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> ><BR>>>> > You can reach the person
managing the list at<BR>>>> > </FONT><A
href="mailto:stoves-owner@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>stoves-owner@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> ><BR>>>> > When replying, please edit
your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>>>> > than "Re: Contents
of Stoves digest..."<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
> Today's Topics:<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > 1. interesting
link (Ronald Hongsermeier)<BR>>>> > 2. Re: interesting link (Ron
Larson)<BR>>>> > 3. Re: interesting link (Ronald
Hongsermeier)<BR>>>> > 4. Re: interesting link (</FONT><A
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net"><FONT
face=Arial>rongretlarson@comcast.net</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>)<BR>>>> > 5. Re: interesting link (Andrew C.
Parker)<BR>>>> > 6. Re: interesting link (Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott)<BR>>>> > 7. Re: interesting link (</FONT><A
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net"><FONT
face=Arial>rongretlarson@comcast.net</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>)<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> >
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>>>
><BR>>>> > Message: 1<BR>>>> > Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012
11:07:37 +0200<BR>>>> > From: Ronald Hongsermeier <</FONT><A
href="mailto:rwhongser@web.de"><FONT face=Arial>rwhongser@web.de</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>><BR>>>> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves<BR>>>> > <</FONT><A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>><BR>>>> > Subject: [Stoves] interesting
link<BR>>>> > Message-ID: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:4FE58759.2080206@web.de"><FONT
face=Arial>4FE58759.2080206@web.de</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>><BR>>>> > Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
><BR>>>> </FONT><A
href="http://www.climatedepot.com/a/9035/SPECIAL-REPORT-More-Than-1000-International-Scientists-Dissent-Over-ManMade-Global-Warming-Claims--Challenge-UN-IPCC--Gore#.T-VJ6M92ky8.facebook"><FONT
face=Arial>http://www.climatedepot.com/a/9035/SPECIAL-REPORT-More-Than-1000-International-Scientists-Dissent-Over-ManMade-Global-Warming-Claims--Challenge-UN-IPCC--Gore#.T-VJ6M92ky8.facebook</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> >
------------------------------<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> >
Message: 2<BR>>>> > Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:58:23
-0600<BR>>>> > From: Ron Larson <</FONT><A
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net"><FONT
face=Arial>rongretlarson@comcast.net</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>><BR>>>> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves<BR>>>> > <</FONT><A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>><BR>>>> > Cc: Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves<BR>>>> > <</FONT><A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>><BR>>>> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] interesting
link<BR>>>> > Message-ID: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:DDD65262-6712-4F32-A765-0AC2F7F550A8@comcast.net"><FONT
face=Arial>DDD65262-6712-4F32-A765-0AC2F7F550A8@comcast.net</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>><BR>>>> > Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > Ronald and
list:<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > I have glanced through this cite
- and wonder what relationship it has<BR>>>> to stoves?<BR>>>>
><BR>>>> > Ron<BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > On Jun 23, 2012, at 3:07 AM,
Ronald Hongsermeier <</FONT><A href="mailto:rwhongser@web.de"><FONT
face=Arial>rwhongser@web.de</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>><BR>>>>
wrote:<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > ><BR>>>> </FONT><A
href="http://www.climatedepot.com/a/9035/SPECIAL-REPORT-More-Than-1000-International-Scientists-Dissent-Over-ManMade-Global-Warming-Claims--Challenge-UN-IPCC--Gore#.T-VJ6M92ky8.facebook"><FONT
face=Arial>http://www.climatedepot.com/a/9035/SPECIAL-REPORT-More-Than-1000-International-Scientists-Dissent-Over-ManMade-Global-Warming-Claims--Challenge-UN-IPCC--Gore#.T-VJ6M92ky8.facebook</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> > ><BR>>>> > >
_______________________________________________<BR>>>> > > Stoves
mailing list<BR>>>> > ><BR>>>> > > to Send a
Message to the list, use the email address<BR>>>> > > </FONT><A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> > ><BR>>>> > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or
Change your List Settings use the web page<BR>>>> >
><BR>>>> </FONT><A
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> > ><BR>>>> > > for more Biomass
Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web<BR>>>> > >
site:<BR>>>> > > </FONT><A
href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"><FONT
face=Arial>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> > ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> >
------------------------------<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> >
Message: 3<BR>>>> > Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 18:17:21
+0200<BR>>>> > From: Ronald Hongsermeier <</FONT><A
href="mailto:rwhongser@web.de"><FONT face=Arial>rwhongser@web.de</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>><BR>>>> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves<BR>>>> > <</FONT><A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>><BR>>>> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] interesting
link<BR>>>> > Message-ID: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:4FE5EC11.1040701@web.de"><FONT
face=Arial>4FE5EC11.1040701@web.de</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>><BR>>>> > Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > Dear
Mr. AbovecloudlevelinColorado Larson,<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> >
Think of it as motivation for coming up with more rational helps to
get<BR>>>> > people into thinking about efficiency in their stove
use and sales than<BR>>>> > carbon credits.<BR>>>> >
:D<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > regards,<BR>>>> >
Ronald von UnterderwolkendeckeninBayern<BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
><BR>>>> > On 23.06.2012 16:58, Ron Larson wrote:<BR>>>>
> > Ronald and list:<BR>>>> > ><BR>>>> > > I
have glanced through this cite - and wonder what relationship it<BR>>>>
> > has<BR>>>> to stoves?<BR>>>> >
><BR>>>> > > Ron<BR>>>> > ><BR>>>>
> ><BR>>>> > ><BR>>>> > > On Jun 23, 2012,
at 3:07 AM, Ronald Hongsermeier <</FONT><A
href="mailto:rwhongser@web.de"><FONT face=Arial>rwhongser@web.de</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>><BR>>>> wrote:<BR>>>> > ><BR>>>>
> >><BR>>>> </FONT><A
href="http://www.climatedepot.com/a/9035/SPECIAL-REPORT-More-Than-1000-International-Scientists-Dissent-Over-ManMade-Global-Warming-Claims--Challenge-UN-IPCC--Gore#.T-VJ6M92ky8.facebook"><FONT
face=Arial>http://www.climatedepot.com/a/9035/SPECIAL-REPORT-More-Than-1000-International-Scientists-Dissent-Over-ManMade-Global-Warming-Claims--Challenge-UN-IPCC--Gore#.T-VJ6M92ky8.facebook</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> > >><BR>>>> > >>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>> > >>
Stoves mailing list<BR>>>> > >><BR>>>> > >>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<BR>>>> >
>> </FONT><A href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> > >><BR>>>> > >> to
UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<BR>>>> >
>><BR>>>> </FONT><A
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> > >><BR>>>> > >> for more
Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web<BR>>>>
site:<BR>>>> > >> </FONT><A
href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"><FONT
face=Arial>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> > >><BR>>>> > >
_______________________________________________<BR>>>> > > Stoves
mailing list<BR>>>> > ><BR>>>> > > to Send a
Message to the list, use the email address<BR>>>> > > </FONT><A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> > ><BR>>>> > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or
Change your List Settings use the web page<BR>>>> >
><BR>>>> </FONT><A
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> > ><BR>>>> > > for more Biomass
Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web<BR>>>> > >
site:<BR>>>> > > </FONT><A
href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"><FONT
face=Arial>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> > ><BR>>>> > ><BR>>>> >
><BR>>>> > > -----<BR>>>> > > No virus found in
this message.<BR>>>> > > Checked by AVG - </FONT><A
href="http://www.avg.com"><FONT face=Arial>www.avg.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> > > Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087
- Release Date:<BR>>>> > > 06/22/12<BR>>>> >
><BR>>>> > ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
><BR>>>> > ------------------------------<BR>>>>
><BR>>>> > Message: 4<BR>>>> > Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012
17:05:18 +0000 (UTC)<BR>>>> > From: </FONT><A
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net"><FONT
face=Arial>rongretlarson@comcast.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial>>>>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<BR>>>> > <</FONT><A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>><BR>>>> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] interesting
link<BR>>>> > Message-ID:<BR>>>> > <<BR>>>>
</FONT><A
href="mailto:1238849211.1464511.1340471118290.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net"><FONT
face=Arial>1238849211.1464511.1340471118290.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
> Ronald<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > Yours is a worthy goal,
but you've picked the wrong cite. ClimateDepot<BR>>>> is well known as
a place which thinks energy efficiency is for wimps. Of<BR>>>> course
they obviously know everything there is to be known about cost<BR>>>>
efficiency.<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > Still hope you can find a
reference that mentions stoves.<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > Ron
Larson (aka von oberhalbdemSmogaufDenver)<BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>>>> > From: "Ronald
Hongsermeier" <</FONT><A href="mailto:rwhongser@web.de"><FONT
face=Arial>rwhongser@web.de</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>><BR>>>> >
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<BR>>>> </FONT><A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>><BR>>>> > Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 10:17:21
AM<BR>>>> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] interesting link<BR>>>>
><BR>>>> > Dear Mr. AbovecloudlevelinColorado
Larson,<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > Think of it as motivation for
coming up with more rational helps to get<BR>>>> > people into
thinking about efficiency in their stove use and sales than<BR>>>> >
carbon credits.<BR>>>> > :D<BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
> regards,<BR>>>> > Ronald von
UnterderwolkendeckeninBayern<BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
><BR>>>> > On 23.06.2012 16:58, Ron Larson wrote:<BR>>>>
> > Ronald and list:<BR>>>> > ><BR>>>> > > I
have glanced through this cite - and wonder what relationship it<BR>>>>
> > has<BR>>>> to stoves?<BR>>>> >
><BR>>>> > > Ron<BR>>>> > ><BR>>>>
> ><BR>>>> > ><BR>>>> > > On Jun 23, 2012,
at 3:07 AM, Ronald Hongsermeier <</FONT><A
href="mailto:rwhongser@web.de"><FONT face=Arial>rwhongser@web.de</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>><BR>>>> wrote:<BR>>>> > ><BR>>>>
> >><BR>>>> </FONT><A
href="http://www.climatedepot.com/a/9035/SPECIAL-REPORT-More-Than-1000-International-Scientists-Dissent-Over-ManMade-Global-Warming-Claims--Challenge-UN-IPCC--Gore#.T-VJ6M92ky8.facebook"><FONT
face=Arial>http://www.climatedepot.com/a/9035/SPECIAL-REPORT-More-Than-1000-International-Scientists-Dissent-Over-ManMade-Global-Warming-Claims--Challenge-UN-IPCC--Gore#.T-VJ6M92ky8.facebook</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> > >><BR>>>> > >>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>> > >>
Stoves mailing list<BR>>>> > >><BR>>>> > >>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<BR>>>> >
>> </FONT><A href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> > >><BR>>>> > >> to
UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<BR>>>> >
>><BR>>>> </FONT><A
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> > >><BR>>>> > >> for more
Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web<BR>>>>
site:<BR>>>> > >> </FONT><A
href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"><FONT
face=Arial>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> > >><BR>>>> > >
_______________________________________________<BR>>>> > > Stoves
mailing list<BR>>>> > ><BR>>>> > > to Send a
Message to the list, use the email address<BR>>>> > > </FONT><A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> > ><BR>>>> > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or
Change your List Settings use the web page<BR>>>> >
><BR>>>> </FONT><A
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> > ><BR>>>> > > for more Biomass
Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web<BR>>>>
site:<BR>>>> > > </FONT><A
href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"><FONT
face=Arial>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> > ><BR>>>> > ><BR>>>> >
><BR>>>> > > -----<BR>>>> > > No virus found in
this message.<BR>>>> > > Checked by AVG - </FONT><A
href="http://www.avg.com"><FONT face=Arial>www.avg.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> > > Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087
- Release Date:<BR>>>> 06/22/12<BR>>>> >
><BR>>>> > ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> >
_______________________________________________<BR>>>> > Stoves
mailing list<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > to Send a Message to the
list, use the email address<BR>>>> > </FONT><A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
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face=Arial>>>> ><BR>>>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your
List Settings use the web page<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> </FONT><A
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> ><BR>>>> > for more Biomass Cooking
Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<BR>>>> > </FONT><A
href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"><FONT
face=Arial>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> ><BR>>>> > -------------- next part
--------------<BR>>>> > An HTML attachment was
scrubbed...<BR>>>> > URL: <<BR>>>> </FONT><A
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20120623/ec40c03d/attachment-0001.html"><FONT
face=Arial>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20120623/ec40c03d/attachment-0001.html</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> >
------------------------------<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> >
Message: 5<BR>>>> > Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:35:47
-0600<BR>>>> > From: "Andrew C. Parker" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:acparker@xmission.com"><FONT
face=Arial>acparker@xmission.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>><BR>>>>
> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"<BR>>>> >
<</FONT><A href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>><BR>>>> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] interesting
link<BR>>>> > Message-ID: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:op.wgc9txbauoov7l@user-8ezctxe031"><FONT
face=Arial>op.wgc9txbauoov7l@user-8ezctxe031</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>><BR>>>> > Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed;<BR>>>> >
delsp=yes<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > My interest in efficient
stoves was spurred by deforestation and health<BR>>>> > concerns.
Now the forests I was trying to protect are slated to be<BR>>>> >
cleared to make way for palm oil plantations to feed the carbon
credits<BR>>>> > farce. The people whose lives I hoped to improve
are also being cleared<BR>>>> > and forced into refugee camps. An
environment that supported upwards of<BR>>>> > 100,000 will support
only a few hundred. For what? For whom?<BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
> Invoking the Precautionary Principle, we force the very people we
seek<BR>>>> to<BR>>>> > protect with our policies into
immediate devastation, misery and death,<BR>>>> > rather than
position ourselves to assist in the event that something<BR>>>> >
bad<BR>>>> > might, maybe, perhaps happen to them sometime in the
next 100 to<BR>>>> > 100,000<BR>>>> > years as a result
of man caused CO2 release. This is Climate Justice?<BR>>>>
><BR>>>> > Its anthropogenic, but the suffering isn't because of
climate change.<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> >
Andrew Parker (not AJH)<BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
><BR>>>> > P.S. If you don't like Climate Depot, try
wattsupwiththat.com, or for<BR>>>> > math heads, climateaudit.org (I
try, but it gives me a migraine).<BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> >
------------------------------<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> >
Message: 6<BR>>>> > Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:46:45
-0400<BR>>>> > From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com"><FONT
face=Arial>crispinpigott@gmail.com</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>><BR>>>> > To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves'"<BR>>>> > <</FONT><A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>><BR>>>> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] interesting
link<BR>>>> > Message-ID: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:011901cd5170$8aef7bb0$a0ce7310$@gmail.com"><FONT
face=Arial>011901cd5170$8aef7bb0$a0ce7310$@gmail.com</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>><BR>>>> > Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > Dear Andrew
P<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
> I appreciate all three sites you mentioned precisely because of
the<BR>>>> > math!<BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > To my surprise there was on the
CBC (a relentlessly Warmist channel) an<BR>>>> > interview today
with a lady who was very well informed on the miseries<BR>>>> >
to<BR>>>> > which the dispossessed poor are victims of the new
green-grab, they<BR>>>> called<BR>>>> > it, where the
carbon cowboys roll into town to 'save the forests' and<BR>>>>
make<BR>>>> > megabucks in the process.<BR>>>>
><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > There was a
discussion on WUWT of the stoves programmes, mostly GACC,<BR>>>> >
attacking the EPA for touting ridiculous plans. I engaged some of
the<BR>>>> > bloggers pointing out the pretty serious errors in
logic (that fuel<BR>>>> contains<BR>>>> > 'inherent
emissions' of PM and all that nonsense) pointing out the<BR>>>> >
remarkable success achieved in only 1 year in Ulaanbaatar using an
open<BR>>>> > mind, knowledge of good combustion and a real time
test protocol (HTP).<BR>>>> With<BR>>>> > emissions down
more than 99% (which I assume LBLN's Henrick Wallman<BR>>>> >
will<BR>>>> > talk about in his upcoming webinar) there was a pretty
solid rebuttal<BR>>>> > of<BR>>>> the<BR>>>> >
knee-jerk comments that stoves are all smoky and messy and need to
be<BR>>>> > replaced by good, clean propane.<BR>>>>
><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > More to the
correct topic: the pillaging of the standing forests is a<BR>>>> >
new<BR>>>> > type of colonialism where 'green activists' appropriate
all local<BR>>>> > rights<BR>>>> of<BR>>>> >
use so they can make money selling offsets to the West. What makes
it<BR>>>> > so<BR>>>> > galling is the defectiveness of
the foundational argument - that human<BR>>>> cause<BR>>>>
> CO2 emissions are dramatically (or even detectably) warming the
planet<BR>>>> > -<BR>>>> and<BR>>>> > the
bull-headed resistance to the mounting evidence that the
educated<BR>>>> guess<BR>>>> > taken 25 years ago by Hansen
et al was wrong.<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
><BR>>>> > My advice remains the same: do not put money into a
stove programme<BR>>>> > that<BR>>>> > depends on carbon
trading for survival. Just make good products that<BR>>>>
people<BR>>>> > want to buy.<BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > Regards<BR>>>>
><BR>>>> > Crispin<BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > +++++<BR>>>>
><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > My interest
in efficient stoves was spurred by deforestation and health<BR>>>> >
concerns. Now the forests I was trying to protect are slated to
be<BR>>>> cleared<BR>>>> > to make way for palm oil
plantations to feed the carbon credits farce.<BR>>>>
The<BR>>>> > people whose lives I hoped to improve are also being
cleared and forced<BR>>>> into<BR>>>> > refugee camps. An
environment that supported upwards of<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> >
100,000 will support only a few hundred. For what? For whom?<BR>>>>
><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > Invoking the
Precautionary Principle, we force the very people we seek<BR>>>> >
to<BR>>>> > protect with our policies into immediate devastation,
misery and death,<BR>>>> > rather than position ourselves to assist
in the event that something<BR>>>> > bad<BR>>>> > might,
maybe, perhaps happen to them sometime in the next 100 to<BR>>>> >
100,000<BR>>>> > years as a result of man caused CO2 release. This
is Climate Justice?<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
><BR>>>> > Its anthropogenic, but the suffering isn't because of
climate change.<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > Andrew
Parker (not AJH)<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > P.S. If you
don't like Climate Depot, try wattsupwiththat.com, or for<BR>>>>
math<BR>>>> > heads, climateaudit.org (I try, but it gives me a
migraine).<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > -------------- next part
--------------<BR>>>> > An HTML attachment was
scrubbed...<BR>>>> > URL: <<BR>>>> </FONT><A
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20120623/833d433f/attachment-0001.html"><FONT
face=Arial>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20120623/833d433f/attachment-0001.html</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> >
------------------------------<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> >
Message: 7<BR>>>> > Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 18:54:29 +0000
(UTC)<BR>>>> > From: </FONT><A
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net"><FONT
face=Arial>rongretlarson@comcast.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial>>>>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<BR>>>> > <</FONT><A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>>,
"Andrew C. Parker"<BR>>>> > <</FONT><A
href="mailto:acparker@xmission.com"><FONT
face=Arial>acparker@xmission.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>><BR>>>>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] interesting link<BR>>>> >
Message-ID:<BR>>>> > <<BR>>>> </FONT><A
href="mailto:1118696453.1467520.1340477669618.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net"><FONT
face=Arial>1118696453.1467520.1340477669618.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
> Andrew Parker and list :<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > As in my
last reply to Ronald H, I don't see that you are providing<BR>>>> links
that will help lead to better stoves. Lists like the three in
your<BR>>>> "P.S." have zero interest in what this list is about - and
in fact I<BR>>>> believe all three are doing a good job of making sure
we are unsuccessful<BR>>>> in bringing about better
stoves.<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > Your motivation (first
sentence) for getting into this topic is much<BR>>>> like many on the
list. I started personally with concern about the<BR>>>>
desertification disaster happening in Sudan - all because of
charcoal<BR>>>> production in that country's boondocks. Charcoal-making
stoves can help a<BR>>>> lot with desertification/deforestation, even
if the char is used by<BR>>>> others<BR>>>> for cooking -
because most present char production is so horrible.<BR>>>>
><BR>>>> > But many of us on this list have come to see the char
as being better<BR>>>> for everyone if placed in the ground. Carbon
credits will be helpful in<BR>>>> that regard. If done appropriately,
they can also do a lot to prevent<BR>>>> (not<BR>>>>
encourage) what you rightfully deplore. The issue for this list should
be<BR>>>> on any/every approach that will give developing country stove
users<BR>>>> better<BR>>>> stoves. With charcoal-making
stoves, stove users can even make money<BR>>>> while<BR>>>>
cooking, while meeting your two concerns: saving forests and
gaining<BR>>>> better<BR>>>> health.<BR>>>>
><BR>>>> > These topics, which seem important to you, should be
on the table at<BR>>>> > Rio<BR>>>> + 20 - and I can't see
that they are. Because, in part, of the three<BR>>>>
sites<BR>>>> listed below in your "P.S."<BR>>>>
><BR>>>> > Ron<BR>>>> ><BR>>>>
><BR>>>> > ----- Original Message -----<BR>>>> >
From: "Andrew C. Parker" <</FONT><A href="mailto:acparker@xmission.com"><FONT
face=Arial>acparker@xmission.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>><BR>>>>
> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<BR>>>> </FONT><A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>><BR>>>> > Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:35:47
AM<BR>>>> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] interesting link<BR>>>>
><BR>>>> > My interest in efficient stoves was spurred by
deforestation and health<BR>>>> > concerns. Now the forests I was
trying to protect are slated to be<BR>>>> > cleared to make way for
palm oil plantations to feed the carbon credits<BR>>>> > farce. The
people whose lives I hoped to improve are also being cleared<BR>>>>
> and forced into refugee camps. An environment that supported upwards
of<BR>>>> > 100,000 will support only a few hundred. For what? For
whom?<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > Invoking the Precautionary
Principle, we force the very people we seek<BR>>>> to<BR>>>>
> protect with our policies into immediate devastation, misery and
death,<BR>>>> > rather than position ourselves to assist in the
event that something<BR>>>> > bad<BR>>>> > might, maybe,
perhaps happen to them sometime in the next 100 to<BR>>>> >
100,000<BR>>>> > years as a result of man caused CO2 release. This
is Climate Justice?<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > Its anthropogenic,
but the suffering isn't because of climate change.<BR>>>>
><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > Andrew Parker (not
AJH)<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > P.S. If you
don't like Climate Depot, try wattsupwiththat.com, or for<BR>>>> >
math heads, climateaudit.org (I try, but it gives me a
migraine).<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> >
_______________________________________________<BR>>>> > Stoves
mailing list<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > to Send a Message to the
list, use the email address<BR>>>> > </FONT><A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> ><BR>>>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your
List Settings use the web page<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> </FONT><A
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> ><BR>>>> > for more Biomass Cooking
Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<BR>>>> > </FONT><A
href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"><FONT
face=Arial>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> ><BR>>>> > -------------- next part
--------------<BR>>>> > An HTML attachment was
scrubbed...<BR>>>> > URL: <<BR>>>> </FONT><A
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20120623/217b4674/attachment-0001.html"><FONT
face=Arial>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20120623/217b4674/attachment-0001.html</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> >
------------------------------<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> >
_______________________________________________<BR>>>> > Stoves
mailing list<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > to Send a Message to the
list, use the email address<BR>>>> > </FONT><A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT
face=Arial>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> ><BR>>>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your
List Settings use the web page<BR>>>> ><BR>>>> </FONT><A
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face=Arial>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > for more
Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<BR>>>>
> </FONT><A href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"><FONT
face=Arial>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial>>>> ><BR>>>> ><BR>>>> > End of
Stoves Digest, Vol 22, Issue 27<BR>>>> >
**************************************<BR>>>><BR>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>> Stoves mailing
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email address<BR>>>> </FONT><A
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Settings use the web page<BR>>>><BR>>>> </FONT><A
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face=Arial>>>><BR>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,
News and Information see our web site:<BR>>>> </FONT><A
href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"><FONT
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face=Arial>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>><BR>>
<BR>> -- <BR>> Sent from my mobile device<BR>> <BR>> David Whitfield
V.<BR>> Executive Director<BR>> CEDESOL Foundation<BR>> <BR>>
_______________________________________________<BR>> Stoves mailing
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