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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Dear Sarbagya</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>If the <A
href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</A> address does not
work, then please try <A
href="mailto:kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca">kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca</A> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Kevin Chisholm</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>AKA Dr. Dung ;-)</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=sarbagya007@gmail.com href="mailto:sarbagya007@gmail.com">SARBAGYA
TULADHAR</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:00
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] Confirm stove
efficiencies in Vietnam</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Hi Crispin,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Have you by any chance got any contact details of Kevin Chisholm aka Dr.
Dung. I have his email add as <A
href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</A> which was in
the stovers mailing list but it apparently does not seem to work. I had
questions regarding the dung washing.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Cheers</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Sarbagya Tuladhar</DIV>
<DIV>Sydney</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On 03/07/2012, at 3:33 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN
style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"
class=Apple-style-span>
<DIV lang=EN-CA vlink="purple" link="blue">
<DIV style="page: WordSection1" class=WordSection1>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Dear
Marc and Tuong<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">></SPAN><A
style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"
href="http://ehs.sph.berkeley.edu/krsmith/?p=249">http://ehs.sph.berkeley.edu/krsmith/?p=249</A><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">></SPAN>It would be good to cross reference
the efficiencies you found. For example, for an LPG stove, the
report eff is only just over 50%.<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Not
all LPG stoves are the same of course. There is a test of an LPG stove done
using the Indian thermal efficiency test that reports a figure of about 62%
and when using the same hardware, a reasonable similar gas composition, but
at a different altitude and quite different pot, we got a figure within
2%.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Note
there is calculation error in the Indian efficiency test which is that it
does not credit as absorbed heat used to boil out water. As the range of
temperature is from 20 to 90 degrees, there is certainly some evaporation
before reaching 90 and that affects the final answer. I suggest you run such
tests in Vietnam at 30-70 degrees and then you can safely assume you will
start below 30, and not evaporate anything meaningful by
70.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">In
a series of tests we found that evaporation from 30-70 was within the error
of the scale readings (</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">±</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">0.5g)
so could not be said to be detected ‘with
confidence’.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">The
Indian efficiency test does correctly apply the heat capacity (Cp) of the
pot taking into consideration its mass and material. This corrects a
significant error in most WBT’s, significant meaning it makes a
statistically significant difference to the final result. If you want to
correctly state the thermal efficiency <</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">±</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">5%
the pot material needs to be considered. Ti is not difficult to
add.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">The
approach taken in the Indian test calculation is to calculate the water mass
equivalent of the pot the add it to the mass of water heated. This is simple
and reliable and easily understood later in the
calculations.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">></SPAN>Also, I'm not sure reporting a
single efficiency number is all that useful.<SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Reporting
the efficiency doing ‘one thing’ using one pot at one power level, or two
power levels summed so you can’t see the difference, is not very useful, I
agree. People want to know the performance profile of a stove, not just ‘one
number’ which contains little information. If that number is not even
accurate, there is almost no information contained in
it.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">></SPAN>The stove types you detail have
much variation depending on construction quality, operation, fuel type, pot
size, etc.<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">The
performance of a stove varies with pot size operation method, fuel and to a
small extend, construction quality. If you interpret ‘performance’ as
‘durability’ then that matters too and you have to report it. A stove might
fall to pieces quickly if it is operated at high power continuously, for
example.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Regards<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Crispin<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves
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