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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Mr. Kar, and to other Stovers.
<br>
<br>
Mr. Kar asked me a question, and I am sending the response to the
larger audience of the Stoves Listserv and for posting onto my
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a> website.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">while Jetter et al., 2012 (attached)
classifies both HD4012 (Philips forced draft) and Oorja as
"variations of gasifier stove", some experts (Mukunda et al.,
2011) are of the opinion that HD4012 is an in-situ combustion
design while Oorja is a gasifier stove. </blockquote>
<br>
About your question, I basically agree with Dr. Mukunda, to whom I
also send my warmest regards. The term "in-situ" correctly
distinguishes the combustion from that of the TLUD gasifiers that
have the migratory pyrolysis front. They can all be gasifiers
(depending on the definition of gasifier), but they are not in the
same categories.<br>
<br>
There is a stove type that I call "fan-jet" stoves because high
turbulence of limited air is the key feature. And they are not
really top-lit. Those stoves are: Philips forced air,
WorldStove Lucia forced air, Ecococina of El Salvador, and the new
BioLite stoves (all have forced air, but Philips and WorldStove
also have natural draft units that are sometimes confused if we do
not emphasize the forced air versions.) The developers of each
of those four stoves have patent claims and are for-profit
companies. They are quite distinct from the TLUD stoves with
fans or without.<br>
<br>
If others want to propose a different name instead of "fan-jet",
that is fine. But do not call them "fan stoves" because there
are simply too many ways to have forced air. So many different
stoves with fans should not be lumped together. <br>
<br>
The high turbulence is the way the fan-jet stoves get clean
emissions, but they do NOT function (at least not very well) as a
TLUD stove with the pyrolysis front moving downward in a
stationary fuel pile. Fan-jet stoves have their fire (hot spot)
down near the bottom, even from the beginning. That is why they
can accept new amounts of fuel onto the top of the hot spot. <br>
<br>
Note that the Oorja stove is commonly ignited as a TLUD, but once
the pyrolysis front reaches the bottom, the forced air allows
people to add in small amounts of fuel (I call that "trickle
fueling"). But it is NOT operating any longer as a TLUD
combustion device. It would be a bottom-burning stove with well
controlled air. And the bottom burning is of hot charcoal, so
the bottom of the stove is endangered. That is why the Oorja
stoves have a cast iron cup, to prevent destruction of the lower
part of the stove. The Tom Reed WoodGas Campstove is similar,
but without the cup. <br>
<br>
The above comments will be clear to those who have seen these
various stoves in operation. And there does need to be a clear
distinction between the various types of stoves. <br>
<br>
[To Mr. Kar: <br>
It is a pleasure to meet you via email. At what TERI facility
are you located? I am a friend of Dr. Srinivas who was in
southern India (Bangalore ??) with TERI, but is now in Delhi. ]<br>
<br>
Paul / Dr TLUD<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 10/30/2012 8:42 AM, abhishek kar wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAFpqLtgP8KJcrht+S_k5avkzzKFSYRsopTM2gdyL-3iW7P7UKQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Dear Dr. Anderson,
<div>I am an Associate Fellow with The Energy and Resources
Institute (TERI <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.teriin.org" target="_blank">www.teriin.org</a>
), India. I have been working on various technical and
dissemination aspects of improved cook-stoves in India and Kenya
with focus on black carbon and market value chain. I have
recently published a paper on the linkage between black carbon
and cookstoves (attached-Kar et al., 2012). I was also the site
manager of a field research project related to black carbon
mitigation- Project Surya <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.projectsurya.org" target="_blank">www.projectsurya.org</a>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As the world's foremost authority on gasifiers for cooking
applications, can you share your approach for classification of
stoves as there seems to be grey areas in the classification. </div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>For example, while Jetters et al., 2012 (attached) classifies
both HD4012 (Philips forced draft) and Oorja as "variations of
gasifier stove", some experts (Mukunda et al., 2011) are of the
opinion that HD4012 is an in-situ combustion design while Oorja
is a gasifier stove. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Based on my limited understanding of micro-gasification, I
wonder if original design intent is more relevant or style of
operations that drives the classification approach. How do we
distinguish between HD4012 and Oorja if both stoves have batch
fuel loading and top lit operations using same fuel type? I
keenly look forward towards your expert views in this regard.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Warm Regards,
</div>
<div>Abhishek Kar<br>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
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