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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Dear Ron</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rongretlarson@comcast.net
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=biochar@yahoogroups.com
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com">biochar@yahoogroups.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 30, 2012 11:15
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] [biochar] Gasifier
stove grant (and semi-gasifiers)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Kevin
etal<BR><BR> The key word in all this is in the CSU
diagram - "Pyrolysis" - look up its definition.</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">#This site <A
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrolysis">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrolysis</A> defines
Pyrolysis as: </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">"<STRONG>Pyrolysis</STRONG>
is a <A class=mw-redirect title=Thermochemical
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermochemical">thermochemical</A> <A
title=Decomposition
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decomposition">decomposition</A> of <A
title="Organic matter"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_matter">organic material</A> at
elevated temperatures without the participation of <A title=Oxygen
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen">oxygen</A>.</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"># while this
site: <A
href="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pyrolysis">http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pyrolysis</A> defines
pyrolysis as:</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV class=ds-list><B>1.</B> (Chemistry) the application of heat to chemical
compounds in order to cause decomposition</DIV>
<DIV class=ds-list><B>2.</B> (Chemistry) chemical decomposition of compounds
caused by high temperatures</DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"># I would
suggest that teh latter definitions are more appropriate. To support this
belief, I would offer the work of Dr. Tom Reed, who has numberous publications
analyzing TlUD's where he refers to the "flaming pyrolysis zone"</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"># Would you
not agree that "The essence of pyrolysis is the thermal destruction of an
organic compound by heat"?</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"># I am not
sure that i have addressed your point of concern. Please elaborate further, if
I have failed to address it.</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Best
wishes,</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Kevin</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>Ron<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR id=zwchr>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><B>From:
</B>"Kevin" <<A
href="mailto:kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca">kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca</A>><BR><B>To:
</B><A href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com">biochar@yahoogroups.com</A>,
"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>><BR><B>Sent:
</B>Tuesday, October 30, 2012 6:32:13 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: [biochar]
Gasifier stove grant (and semi-gasifiers)<BR><BR><LINK rel=stylesheet
href="/zimbra/css/msgview.css?v=201210010001"><SPAN
style="DISPLAY: none"> </SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="POSITION: relative; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
id=ygrp-mlmsg>
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<DIV id=ygrp-text>
<P></P>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Dear Paul</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>From:</B> <A
title=psanders@ilstu.edu href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target=_blank>Paul
Anderson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target=_blank>Discussion of
biomass cooking stoves</A> ; <A title=biochar@yahoogroups.com
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com"
target=_blank>biochar@yahoogroups.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:05
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [biochar] Gasifier stove grant
(and semi-gasifiers)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><SPAN> </SPAN>
<DIV id=ygrp-text>
<P>Stovers, and Gasifier folks,<BR><BR>Let's give a big round of applause to
Colorado State University and also to Envirofit for their strong entry into
the world of gasifier cookstoves!!!<BR><BR>One million dollars worth of
encouragement for a strong entry is fantastic.
Congratulations. Details are at:<BR><BR></P>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container><A
href="http://www.news.colostate.edu/Release/6485"
target=_blank>http://www.news.colostate.edu/Release/6485</A></DIV>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container><FONT size=3 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container><FONT size=3 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container><FONT size=3 face=Arial># Interesting
article!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container><BR>The press release states:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=moz-forward-container>
<P>“It [semi-gasifier] separates the combustion process into two phases.
In the first phase, combustible gasses are released from solid biomass. In
the second phase, those combustible gasses are mixed with air and create a
secondary flame,” Tryner said.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container>I think that definition is a good one for
"gasifiers" and is certainly how the term has been used for a decade and
more regarding cooking stoves. </DIV>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container> </DIV>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container><FONT size=3 face=Arial># I would suggest
that a good definition of a "Gasifier" is as follows</FONT><FONT size=3
face=Arial>:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container><FONT size=3 face=Arial><FONT
size=4>Gasifier:</FONT> A Gasifier is a device for converting a solid or
liquid fuel into a fuel gas.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container><FONT size=3 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container><FONT size=3 face=Arial># There are three
main types of "Gasifiers":</FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container><FONT size=3 face=Arial><FONT size=4>1:
Retort:</FONT> </FONT> <FONT size=3 face=Arial>A fuel placed in a
sealed vessle, with no access to oxygen, and heated with an external source
of heat can yield "pyrolysis gases" that can be captured and led
away for chemical recovery, purification, for use as a fuel gas elsewhere,
etc. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container><FONT size=3 face=Arial><FONT size=4>2: Air
Blown Gasifier: </FONT><FONT size=3>Air/oxygen is contacted with a
solid fuel at a temperature above its ignition point, to initiate pyrolysis
and combustion, in the "Reaction Zone", and CO2 and H2O in partially
combusted gases are reduced back to CO and H2 by incandescent char in the
"Reaction Zone", leaving little to no residual charcoal. An "Air Blown
Gasifier" can be characterized by the intentional supply of only "Primary
Air", for gasification of the fuel, and with none of the air supplied
leaving the gasifier as "products of intended
combustion. "</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container><FONT size=3 face=Arial><FONT size=4>3:
Semi-Gasifier</FONT>: A "Semi-Gasifier" is identical to an "Air Blown
Gasifier", EXCEPT that by design, or by operation, it leaves a
significant portion of its initial carbon content as an ungasifier char
residue.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container><FONT size=3 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container><FONT size=3 face=Arial># A<FONT
size=4>"Gasifier"</FONT> differs fundamentally from a <FONT
size=4>"Combustor",</FONT> where a fuel is burned to completion. A
"Combustor" can be easily distinguished from a "Gasifier" by the presence of
"purposefully added provision for the introduction of secondary air, to a
fuel gas intended for combustion to completion." </FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container> </DIV>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container>So I will ask the first
question: <BR><BR>Please define the difference between a
"semi-gasifier" and a "gasifier" in the terminology used by CSU.
(I hope you just drop the "semi-" part.)</DIV>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container><FONT size=3 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container><FONT size=3 face=Arial># The difference
between a "Gasifier" and a "Semi-Gasifier" is that a "Gasifier" converts
substantially all the fuel provided into a gas, while a "Semi-Gasifier"
converts only part of the supplied fuel to a gas, and leaves behind a
significant portion of the carbon energy content of the initial fuel as char
which was not gasified..</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3># Following is a copy of a picture from the
website:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3> <A
href="http://www.news.colostate.edu/content/photos/Semi%20gasifier%20schematic.jpg"
target=_blank>http://www.news.colostate.edu/content/photos/Semi%20gasifier%20schematic.jpg</A></FONT></DIV><FONT
size=3></FONT>
<DIV>
<DIV><IMG border=0 hspace=0 alt="" align=bottom
src="cid:6094C744C19D45249522EA7E5E4EEAF0@usera594fda0bf"><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3># This is puzzling... they term their device a
"Semi-Gasifier Stove", yet </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>1: It is NOT a semi-gasifier, in that neither in the
schematic, nor in their website text, do they acknowledge the production of
char.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>2: There is clear provision of "secondary air" for the
intended combustion of the products of gasification, ie, it is a
"combustor". (or stove.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>It should more properly be termed a "Gasifier Stove" in
that all the fuel is gasified, with no residual char.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3># </FONT><FONT size=3>On the other hand, a TLUD is clearly
a "Semi-Gasifier Combustor" (Stove), in that </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>1: A significant portion of the supplied fuel leaves the
system as char</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>2: There is definite provision for the introduction of
secondary air, to burn the products of gasification to
completion.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The folks at CSU do GREAT work, and I am sure that their entry into
this aspect of improved cookstoves will result is some great benefits.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3># I must be missing something here, but aren't they simply
re-inventing the pellet stove?"</FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>Best wishes,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>Kevin</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Paul<BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container><PRE class=moz-signature>Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target=_blank>psanders@ilstu.edu</A> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="http://www.drtlud.com" target=_blank>www.drtlud.com</A></PRE></DIV>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container><BR><BR>-------- Original Message --------
</DIV>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container>
<TABLE class=moz-email-headers-table border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TH vAlign=baseline noWrap>Subject: </TH>
<TD>Re: you and Hugh and biochar</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TH vAlign=baseline noWrap>Date: </TH>
<TD>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 08:23:21 -0600</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TH vAlign=baseline noWrap>From: </TH>
<TD>John Field <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:john.l.field@gmail.com"
target=_blank><john.l.field@gmail.com></A></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TH vAlign=baseline noWrap>To: </TH>
<TD>Paul Anderson <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu"
target=_blank><psanders@ilstu.edu></A></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TH vAlign=baseline noWrap>CC: </TH>
<TD>Hugh McLaughlin <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:wastemin1@verizon.net"
target=_blank><wastemin1@verizon.net></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container><BR><BR><BR><BR>However, the general
consensus is that only forced-draft gasifier cookstoves deliver remarkably
low emissions, whereas natural draft gasifiers tend to be similar or only
marginal better than most rocket stove designs. This is an impression
reinforced by my own (very limited) work, as well as by the attached recent
paper by Abishek Kar of the Surya project. In contrast, the recent
paper by Jim Jetter's group is more difficult to interpret, and includes a
natural draft gasifier with better high-performance emissions than all other
stoves tested, as well as a forced-draft gasifier among the worst
performers. Go figure!<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 5:35 PM, John Field <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:john.l.field@gmail.com"
target=_blank>john.l.field@gmail.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"
class=gmail_quote>Apologies for the lack of communication here- I was away
all last week at the ASA-SSSA-CSSA conference. No new stoves/biochar
news at the moment; I'm totally preoccupied preparing for my prelim exam
for the next several weeks. <BR><BR>Hope you well,<BR>john
<DIV class=HOEnZb>
<DIV class=h5><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Paul Anderson
<SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu"
target=_blank>psanders@ilstu.edu</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"
class=gmail_quote>John,<BR><BR>Sorry that you and Hugh did not meet when
he was in Boulder last week.<BR><BR>Are there any more developments
involving you and stoves and biochar?<BR><BR>Doc<SPAN><FONT
color=#888888><BR><BR>-- <BR>Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr
TLUD"<BR>Email: <A href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu"
target=_blank>psanders@ilstu.edu</A> Skype: paultlud Phone:
<A href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072"
target=_blank>+1-309-452-7072</A><BR>Website: <A
href="http://www.drtlud.com"
target=_blank>www.drtlud.com</A><BR><BR></FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR
clear=all><BR></DIV></DIV><SPAN class=HOEnZb><FONT color=#888888>--
<BR>Thank you,<BR>John Field<BR>NSF IGERT Fellow, Multidisciplinary
Approaches to Sustainable BioEnergy<BR>Department of Mechanical
Engineering, Colorado State University<BR><BR>email: <A
href="mailto:john.L.field@colostate.edu"
target=_blank>john.L.field@colostate.edu</A><BR>cell: <A
href="tel:%28317%29%20748-9792" target=_blank>(317) 748-9792</A><BR><A
href="http://bioenergy-igert.colostate.edu"
target=_blank>bioenergy-igert.colostate.edu</A><BR><A
href="http://bioenergyigert.wordpress.com"
target=_blank>bioenergyigert.wordpress.com</A><BR><BR></FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container><BR><BR clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Thank
you,<BR>John Field<BR>NSF IGERT Fellow, Multidisciplinary Approaches to
Sustainable BioEnergy<BR>Department of Mechanical Engineering, Colorado
State University<BR><BR>email: <A
href="mailto:john.L.field@colostate.edu"
target=_blank>john.L.field@colostate.edu</A><BR>cell: (317)
748-9792<BR><A href="http://bioenergy-igert.colostate.edu"
target=_blank>bioenergy-igert.colostate.edu</A><BR><A
href="http://bioenergyigert.wordpress.com"
target=_blank>bioenergyigert.wordpress.com</A><BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV><BR>
<P></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P></P></DIV>
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