<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'>Kevin etal<br><br> The key word in all this is in the CSU diagram - "Pyrolysis" - look up its definition.<br><br>Ron<br><br><hr id="zwchr"><b>From: </b>"Kevin" <kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca><br><b>To: </b>biochar@yahoogroups.com, "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, October 30, 2012 6:32:13 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [biochar] Gasifier stove grant (and semi-gasifiers)<br><br>
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</p><div><font face="Arial">Dear Paul</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid;">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="psanders@ilstu.edu" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">Paul Anderson</a>
</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;"><b>To:</b> <a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</a> ; <a title="biochar@yahoogroups.com" href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:05
PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;"><b>Subject:</b> [biochar] Gasifier stove grant
(and semi-gasifiers)</div>
<div><br></div><span> </span>
<div id="ygrp-text">
<p>Stovers, and Gasifier folks,<br><br>Let's give a big round of applause to
Colorado State University and also to Envirofit for their strong entry into
the world of gasifier cookstoves!!!<br><br>One million dollars worth of
encouragement for a strong entry is fantastic.
Congratulations. Details are at:<br><br>
</p><div class="moz-forward-container"><a href="http://www.news.colostate.edu/Release/6485" target="_blank">http://www.news.colostate.edu/Release/6485</a></div>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><font face="Arial" size="3"></font> </div>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><font face="Arial" size="3"></font> </div>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><font face="Arial" size="3"># Interesting
article!</font></div>
<div class="moz-forward-container"> <br>The press release states:<br></div>
<blockquote class="moz-forward-container">
<p>“It [semi-gasifier] separates the combustion process into two phases. In
the first phase, combustible gasses are released from solid biomass. In the
second phase, those combustible gasses are mixed with air and create a
secondary flame,” Tryner said.</p></blockquote>
<div class="moz-forward-container">I think that definition is a good one for
"gasifiers" and is certainly how the term has been used for a decade and more
regarding cooking stoves. </div>
<div class="moz-forward-container"> </div>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><font face="Arial" size="3"># I would suggest
that a good definition of a "Gasifier" is as follows</font><font face="Arial" size="3">:</font></div>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><font face="Arial" size="3"><font size="4">Gasifier:</font> A Gasifier is a device for converting a solid or
liquid fuel into a fuel gas.</font></div>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><font face="Arial" size="3"></font> </div>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><font face="Arial" size="3"># There are three
main types of "Gasifiers":</font></div>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><font face="Arial" size="3"><font size="4">1:
Retort:</font> </font> <font face="Arial" size="3">A fuel placed in a
sealed vessle, with no access to oxygen, and heated with an external source of
heat can yield "pyrolysis gases" that can be captured and led away
for chemical recovery, purification, for use as a fuel gas elsewhere,
etc. </font></div>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><font face="Arial" size="3"><font size="4">2: Air
Blown Gasifier: </font><font size="3">Air/oxygen is contacted with a solid
fuel at a temperature above its ignition point, to initiate pyrolysis and
combustion, in the "Reaction Zone", and CO2 and H2O in partially
combusted gases are reduced back to CO and H2 by incandescent char in the
"Reaction Zone", leaving little to no residual charcoal. An "Air Blown
Gasifier" can be characterized by the intentional supply of only "Primary
Air", for gasification of the fuel, and with none of the air supplied leaving
the gasifier as "products of intended combustion. "</font></font></div>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><font face="Arial" size="3"><font size="4">3:
Semi-Gasifier</font>: A "Semi-Gasifier" is identical to an "Air Blown
Gasifier", EXCEPT that by design, or by operation, it leaves a
significant portion of its initial carbon content as an ungasifier char
residue.</font></div>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><font face="Arial" size="3"></font> </div>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><font face="Arial" size="3"># A<font size="4">"Gasifier"</font> differs fundamentally from a <font size="4">"Combustor",</font> where a fuel is burned to completion. A "Combustor"
can be easily distinguished from a "Gasifier" by the presence of "purposefully
added provision for the introduction of secondary air, to a fuel gas intended
for combustion to completion." </font></div>
<div class="moz-forward-container"> </div>
<div class="moz-forward-container">So I will ask the first
question: <br><br>Please define the difference between a
"semi-gasifier" and a "gasifier" in the terminology used by CSU.
(I hope you just drop the "semi-" part.)</div>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><font face="Arial" size="3"></font> </div>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><font face="Arial" size="3"># The difference
between a "Gasifier" and a "Semi-Gasifier" is that a "Gasifier" converts
substantially all the fuel provided into a gas, while a "Semi-Gasifier"
converts only part of the supplied fuel to a gas, and leaves behind a
significant portion of the carbon energy content of the initial fuel as char
which was not gasified..</font></div></div>
<div><font size="3"></font> </div>
<div><font size="3"># Following is a copy of a picture from the
website:</font></div>
<div><font size="3"> <a href="http://www.news.colostate.edu/content/photos/Semi%20gasifier%20schematic.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.news.colostate.edu/content/photos/Semi%20gasifier%20schematic.jpg</a></font></div><font size="3"></font>
<div>
<div><img src="cid:F92DB17FCA784EDC8FDFB07987B1BBED@usera594fda0bf" alt="" align="bottom" border="0" hspace="0"><br></div>
<div><font size="3"></font> </div>
<div><font size="3"># This is puzzling... they term their device a
"Semi-Gasifier Stove", yet </font></div>
<div><font size="3">1: It is NOT a semi-gasifier, in that neither in the
schematic, nor in their website text, do they acknowledge the production of
char.</font></div>
<div><font size="3">2: There is clear provision of "secondary air" for the
intended combustion of the products of gasification, ie, it is a "combustor".
(or stove.)</font></div>
<div><font size="3">It should more properly be termed a "Gasifier Stove" in that
all the fuel is gasified, with no residual char.</font></div>
<div><font size="3"></font> </div>
<div><font size="3"># </font><font size="3">On the other hand, a TLUD is clearly a
"Semi-Gasifier Combustor" (Stove), in that </font></div>
<div><font size="3">1: A significant portion of the supplied fuel leaves the
system as char</font></div>
<div><font size="3">2: There is definite provision for the introduction of
secondary air, to burn the products of gasification to
completion.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div>The folks at CSU do GREAT work, and I am sure that their entry into this
aspect of improved cookstoves will result is some great benefits.</div>
<div><font size="3"></font> </div>
<div><font size="3"># I must be missing something here, but aren't they simply
re-inventing the pellet stove?"</font><br></div>
<div><font size="3">Best wishes,</font></div>
<div><font size="3"></font> </div>
<div><font size="3">Kevin</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div>Paul<br></div>
<div>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><pre class="moz-signature">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre></div>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><br><br>-------- Original Message --------
</div>
<div class="moz-forward-container">
<table class="moz-email-headers-table" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th nowrap="right" valign="baseline">Subject: </th>
<td>Re: you and Hugh and biochar</td></tr>
<tr>
<th nowrap="right" valign="baseline">Date: </th>
<td>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 08:23:21 -0600</td></tr>
<tr>
<th nowrap="right" valign="baseline">From: </th>
<td>John Field <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:john.l.field@gmail.com" target="_blank"><john.l.field@gmail.com></a></td></tr>
<tr>
<th nowrap="right" valign="baseline">To: </th>
<td>Paul Anderson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank"><psanders@ilstu.edu></a></td></tr>
<tr>
<th nowrap="right" valign="baseline">CC: </th>
<td>Hugh McLaughlin <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:wastemin1@verizon.net" target="_blank"><wastemin1@verizon.net></a></td></tr></tbody></table></div>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><br><br><br><br>However, the general
consensus is that only forced-draft gasifier cookstoves deliver remarkably low
emissions, whereas natural draft gasifiers tend to be similar or only marginal
better than most rocket stove designs. This is an impression reinforced
by my own (very limited) work, as well as by the attached recent paper by
Abishek Kar of the Surya project. In contrast, the recent paper by Jim
Jetter's group is more difficult to interpret, and includes a natural draft
gasifier with better high-performance emissions than all other stoves tested,
as well as a forced-draft gasifier among the worst performers. Go
figure!<br><br><br><br><br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 5:35 PM, John Field <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:john.l.field@gmail.com" target="_blank">john.l.field@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid;" class="gmail_quote">Apologies
for the lack of communication here- I was away all last week at the
ASA-SSSA-CSSA conference. No new stoves/biochar news at the moment;
I'm totally preoccupied preparing for my prelim exam for the next several
weeks. <br><br>Hope you well,<br>john
<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5"><br><br><br><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Paul Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid;" class="gmail_quote">John,<br><br>Sorry that you and Hugh did not meet when
he was in Boulder last week.<br><br>Are there any more developments
involving you and stoves and biochar?<br><br>Doc<span><font color="#888888"><br><br>-- <br>Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr
TLUD"<br>Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a><br>Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a><br><br></font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br></div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">--
<br>Thank you,<br>John Field<br>NSF IGERT Fellow, Multidisciplinary
Approaches to Sustainable BioEnergy<br>Department of Mechanical Engineering,
Colorado State University<br><br>email: <a href="mailto:john.L.field@colostate.edu" target="_blank">john.L.field@colostate.edu</a><br>cell: <a href="tel:%28317%29%20748-9792" target="_blank">(317) 748-9792</a><br><a href="http://bioenergy-igert.colostate.edu" target="_blank">bioenergy-igert.colostate.edu</a><br><a href="http://bioenergyigert.wordpress.com" target="_blank">bioenergyigert.wordpress.com</a><br><br></font></span></blockquote></div>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Thank
you,<br>John Field<br>NSF IGERT Fellow, Multidisciplinary Approaches to
Sustainable BioEnergy<br>Department of Mechanical Engineering, Colorado State
University<br><br>email: <a href="mailto:john.L.field@colostate.edu" target="_blank">john.L.field@colostate.edu</a><br>cell: (317)
748-9792<br><a href="http://bioenergy-igert.colostate.edu" target="_blank">bioenergy-igert.colostate.edu</a><br><a href="http://bioenergyigert.wordpress.com" target="_blank">bioenergyigert.wordpress.com</a><br><br><br><br></div><br>
<p></p></div></div></blockquote><p></p>
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}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {
font-size: inherit;
font: 100%;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {
font: 99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {
font:115% monospace;
*font-size:100%;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {
line-height: 1.22em;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo {
padding-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-msg p a {
font-family: Verdana;
}
#ygrp-msg p#attach-count span {
color: #1E66AE;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco #reco-head {
color: #ff7900;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a {
font-size: 130%;
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li {
font-size: 77%;
list-style-type: square;
padding: 6px 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul {
margin: 0;
padding: 0 0 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-text {
font-family: Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p {
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt {
font-size: 120%;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {
border-right: none !important;
}
--></style>
</div></body></html>