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Dear Kevin,<br>
<br>
I am just wondering if it's helpful-- or rather to be perhaps a bit
blunt-- doubtful that it is. There are people on the list who are
merely commenting observers, active philanthropists, idea
philanthropists, tinkerers, business owners/employers and
open-source religionists. Then there are people that are
combinations of the aforementioned or something completely
different. I think that Anil is well within the rights of his
situation and conscience to do as he has done while I at the same
time think of myself as a supporter of people as varied and
different as Doug Williams and Jim Mason. The main problem I had
with your comment at first read was that I was not sure whether you
were saying that you were supporting Mr. Nurhuda's momentary policy
or not. And, sadly, I have to admit that I'm even more confused now,
because I think that logically you may be working with a chiastic
instead of parallel logical structure, where the elements are not
simply aligned having like characterists along two axes, but with
opposite referents and thus crossed axes.<br>
<br>
regards,<br>
<br>
Ronald von Wochenendemitteninderwoche :/<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 06.11.2012 14:07, Kevin wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:2CD5A375C17B4E9DA8DEA7B115998D3D@usera594fda0bf"
type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.19328">
<div><font face="Arial">Dear Ronald</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">I was struck by the apparent parallel
between "Classic Old Time Imperialism" in the Physical world,
and "Technology Capitalism" in the "Stoves World." Examples
of the "Classic Old Time Capitalism" would be of the Romans
who conquered Countries for their Resources, and the Spaniards
conquered the Mayans and Incas for their Gold, as compared to
"Technology Capitalism", where a Member or Members of the
"Stoves List World" seek to take New Technology, "The Gold of
the Stoves World" from "lesser powers."</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Imperialism is defined at <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/imperialism">http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/imperialism</a>
Classic Imperialism usually involved exploitation of a smaller
or weaker Country or people by a more powerful Government or
Country, where "the Imperialist" takes labour and tangible
resources from the Country or people it dominates. The
parallel with "Classic Imperialism" is perhaps weak, in that
neither Governments nor tangible resources are involved, but
rather, Individuals and abstract Technology.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Perhaps my parallel was "too big a
stretch." What do you think?</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Best wishes,</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Kevin</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>----- Original Message ----- </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT:
5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color:
black"><b>From:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="rwhongser@web.de" href="mailto:rwhongser@web.de">Ronald
Hongsermeier</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of
biomass cooking stoves</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 06,
2012 6:19 AM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Fwd:
Smoke-free biomass pellet fueled stove</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Dear Kevin,<br>
<br>
Please define "Imperialism" since it's not clear from the
context what you mean.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Ronald von der Neuenkleinindustrieparkanlage<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 06.11.2012 05:37, Kevin wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:6CEE0D541B0C479EBD13475170A9E5EB@usera594fda0bf"
type="cite">
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.19328">
<style></style>
<div><font face="Arial">Dear Anil</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Sadly, it looks like Imperialism is
still alive and well.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Best wishes,</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Kevin</font></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid;
PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4;
font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a
title="nariphaltan@gmail.com"
href="mailto:nariphaltan@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">nari phaltan</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a
title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November
06, 2012 12:09 AM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves]
Fwd: Smoke-free biomass pellet fueled stove</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<font color="#333399"><font size="+0"><font
face="tahoma,sans-serif"><b>Dear Prof Nurhuda,</b></font></font></font>
<div><font color="#333399"><font size="+0"><font
face="tahoma,sans-serif"><b><br>
</b></font></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#333399"><font size="+0"><font
face="tahoma,sans-serif"><b>It is a very impressive
development and you are right in expecting a
suitable rate of return on your intellectual
property. Such requests for waiving rights have
also been received by us for our ethanol stove
work before from some members of the group.</b></font></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#333399"><font size="+0"><font
face="tahoma,sans-serif"><b><br>
</b></font></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#333399"><font size="+0"><font
face="tahoma,sans-serif"><b>All the best.</b></font></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#333399"><font size="+0"><font
face="tahoma,sans-serif"><b><br>
</b></font></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#333399"><font size="+0"><font
face="tahoma,sans-serif"><b>Anil K Rajvanshi</b></font></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#333399"><font size="+0"><font
face="tahoma,sans-serif"><b><br>
</b></font></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#333399"><font size="+0"><font
face="tahoma,sans-serif"><b><br>
</b></font></font></font></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 4:38 PM, <span
dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mnurhuda@ub.ac.id"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mnurhuda@ub.ac.id</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN:
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class="gmail_quote">Dear Prof. Anderson,<br>
<br>
The equipments used to produce the stove are actually
the standard<br>
equipments used in the kerosene stove production. They
are hydraulic<br>
press, welding equipment, roller, and still many other
equipments.<br>
<br>
The number of personals are 30 persons, but those are
involved in the<br>
production, due to still lower demand, is only 6-10
persons.<br>
<br>
The maximum production capacity, at moment, around 500
units in week. But<br>
we can increase up to 1000 units in week. It depends
on the difficulty<br>
level, the stove dimension and still many other
things.<br>
<br>
The expenses used in the development of new stoves are
mostly for research<br>
and purchasing or build new equipments. We have spent
more tens thousands<br>
US$ from our start in the mid 2008. I therefore
disagree to any proposal<br>
to intelectual right removal, as you ever wrote about
it to me two years<br>
ago.<br>
<br>
Kind regards<br>
M. Nurhuda<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
M. Nurhuda<br>
<div class="im"><br>
<br>
> Dear M. Nurhuda,<br>
><br>
> Thank you for the info.<br>
><br>
> Many of us are curious about your workshop to
produce such nice items.<br>
> Questions include the equipment, personnel, and
production capacity.<br>
><br>
> With appreciation,<br>
><br>
> Paul<br>
><br>
> Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"<br>
> Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a
href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072"
moz-do-not-send="true" value="+13094527072">+1-309-452-7072</a><br>
> Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.drtlud.com</a><br>
><br>
> On 11/5/2012 1:13 AM, Ron Larson wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Lists:<br>
>><br>
>> Prof. Nurhuda has ok'd my forwarding this
additional information on<br>
>> his recently announced stove.<br>
>><br>
>> Ron<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Begin forwarded message:<br>
>><br>
</div>
>>> *From:* Muhammad Nurhuda <<a
href="mailto:mnurhuda@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mnurhuda@gmail.com</a><br>
>>> <mailto:<a
href="mailto:mnurhuda@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mnurhuda@gmail.com</a>>><br>
>>> *Date:* November 4, 2012 5:01:46 PM MST<br>
>>> *To:* <a
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>><br>
>>> *Subject:* *Re: [Stoves] Smoke-free
biomass pellet fueled stove*<br>
<div>
<div class="h5">>>><br>
>>> Dear Mr Larson,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Thank a lot for your email. The stove
is my recent attempt in order<br>
>>> biomass pellet can be well burnt.
Previously, I developed stove fueled<br>
>>> wit<br>
>>> palm kernel shell. Even the stove was
excellent for palm kernel shell,<br>
>>> but<br>
>>> it is not immediately good for
biomass pellet. There are a lot of<br>
>>> things<br>
>>> that have to be optimized.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Yes, the excess air can be seen from
the appearance of the flame.<br>
>>> Optimal<br>
>>> secondary air would produce very
transparent,short flame, though it<br>
>>> must<br>
>>> not be blue...... Mr Crispin
Pemberton Pigott has witnessed the stove<br>
>>> as I demonstrated it in Yayasan Dian
Desa, last October.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I just started to sell this pellet
stoves. At the moment, I got<br>
>>> purchasing<br>
>>> order of 1200 stoves. It occurs after
the buyer perform test by<br>
>>> himself.<br>
>>> However, due to limited capacity of
our workshop, the buyer must wait<br>
>>> up<br>
>>> to 3 months right now. At the moment,
we are manufacturing 1600<br>
>>> chopped-wood fueled stoves for
project in Sumba Island, Indonesia.<br>
>>><br>
>>> The percentage of charcoal by weight
is 20-25%. Some time it is less.<br>
>>> But<br>
>>> certainly, our stove burns the smoke
very well until the last smoke<br>
>>> production.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Biochar is char that contains
volatile matter (VM) less then 3%. When<br>
>>> the<br>
>>> VM is still high, let say 5%, the
reaction of VM and water can lead the<br>
>>> acidic soil condition, and it is not
good for the plant. We believe<br>
>>> that<br>
>>> the biochar produced by combustion of
our stove is VM-free, such that<br>
>>> it<br>
>>> is good for soil conditioner.<br>
>>><br>
>>> As you might know, my background is a
theoretical atomic and laser<br>
>>> physicist. I do not know some
specific terms like turn-down ratio. I<br>
>>> started to develop stoves in the late
2008. In addition, I do not have<br>
>>> laboratory, just small workshop that
produces the stoves. So far, the<br>
>>> performance tests are performed by
external laboratories. In 2010 test<br>
>>> performed by PT Puser Bumi in
cooperation with directory of bioenergy,<br>
>>> republic of Indonesia, our wood
chopped stoves was the best among other<br>
>>> 60<br>
>>> stoves.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Kind regards<br>
>>> M. Nurhuda<br>
>>><br>
>>> > Prof. Nurhuda<br>
>>> > This is a really fine looking
stove. The part that intrigues me most<br>
>>> is<br>
>>> that you are controlling secondary
air for the pyrolysis gases. And<br>
>>> apparently doing it (and primary air)
well with the rotating disc<br>
>>> mechanism. I do not recall seeing any
other stove controlling both<br>
>>> (without a fan) - so any data on the
value of that for users of the<br>
>>> stove<br>
>>> > could be very helpful to others.
(Can they control excess air by the<br>
>>> look<br>
>>> > of the flame?)<br>
>>> > A few questions:<br>
>>> > the price?<br>
>>> > sales going well?<br>
>>> > what percentage char by weight?<br>
>>> > any soil improvement results
from using the biochar?<br>
>>> > can you do more than a 4:3
turndown ratio? (based on your two stated<br>
>>> power<br>
>>> > levels)<br>
>>> > apparently you are striving for
biochar (great!), but can you<br>
>>> describe<br>
>>> conditions if you try to burn the
produced char?<br>
>>> > any efficiency data?<br>
>>> > you appear to be pre-heating
both primary and secondary air - can you<br>
>>> attribute any performance improvement
to that? (I know of no-one else<br>
>>> doing both)<br>
>>> > Thanks for the alert on your
stove.<br>
>>> > Ron<br>
>>> > ----- Original Message -----<br>
>>> > <a
href="mailto:From%3Amnurhuda@ub.ac.id"
moz-do-not-send="true">From:mnurhuda@ub.ac.id</a><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="im">>>> <<a
href="http://webmail.ub.ac.id/src/compose.php?send_to=mnurhuda%40ub.ac.id"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://webmail.ub.ac.id/src/compose.php?send_to=mnurhuda%40ub.ac.id</a>><br>
>>> > <a
href="mailto:To%3Astoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">To:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>>> <<a
href="http://webmail.ub.ac.id/src/compose.php?send_to=stoves%40lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://webmail.ub.ac.id/src/compose.php?send_to=stoves%40lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 3, 2012
5:03:54 PM<br>
>>> > Subject: [Stoves] Smoke-free
biomass pellet fueled stove<br>
>>> > Dear all,<br>
>>> > Please check to following page to
see the video of our smoke-free,<br>
>>> biomass-pellet fueled stove:<br>
>>> ><a
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWt25oD1iWk&feature=youtu.be"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWt25oD1iWk&feature=youtu.be</a><br>
>>> > Kind regards<br>
>>> > M. Nurhuda<br>
>>> >
_______________________________________________<br>
>>> > Stoves mailing list<br>
>>> > to Send a Message to the list, use
the email address<br>
>>> ><a
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
</div>
>>> <<a
href="http://webmail.ub.ac.id/src/compose.php?send_to=stoves%40lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://webmail.ub.ac.id/src/compose.php?send_to=stoves%40lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5">>>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or
Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
>>> ><a
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News
and Information see our web site:<br>
>>> <a
href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>
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>><br>
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>> <a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
>
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</blockquote>
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<br>
<br clear="all">
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-- <br>
<font color="#330099" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Nimbkar
Agricultural Research Institute (NARI)<br>
Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road<br>
P.O.Box 44<br>
Phaltan-415523, Maharashtra, India<br>
Ph:91-2166-222396/220945<br>
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">e-mail:nariphaltan@gmail.com</a><br>
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">anilrajvanshi@gmail.com</a></font><br>
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<p class="avgcert" color="#000000" align="left">No virus found in
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Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5376 - Release Date:
11/05/12</p>
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