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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Good idea. We can work on it over the next few of weeks. Sorting out the objectives and use of tests, methods and formal protocols would be the place to start. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Tom<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><a name="_MailEndCompose"></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bryden, Kenneth [M E]<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 26, 2012 8:06 AM<br><b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] ETHOS 2013: Where is the New Data on Stove Performance in the Field?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Tom, <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Sounds like a great idea and I'm sure by the flurry of writing this weekend that it would attract a lot of interest. I also know that there are a lot of questions that need be answered.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Maybe a format that could work would be a panel for the whole group followed by a set of talks for those who wish to continue the discussion. Can you put together a panel and a set of talks that would represent the divergent views on this topic?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Dean - any thoughts<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Mark<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Nov 23, 2012, at 10:36 AM, Tom Miles wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Mark,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>You have listed a number of standards and protocol topics. Now that GACC exists have we made any gains on the science side? Where is the data? We should be generating good field data by now. I don’t want to just hear reports about what people have decided in political committees that nobody seems to be able to attend or vote in. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I would like to see a critical review of the testing protocols and methods with regard to the key metrics and emissions. For example, the protocols to date have made assumptions about heating values of fuels and residues ash and charcoal that I have always felt were just placeholders until someone with larger research budgets could validate them. Determining the amount of energy left in the ash or charcoal is a good example. I often get asked what value to use for the remaining ash/charcoal. I haven’t seen a test where the remaining charcoal/ash has been directly tested for ash content and heating value.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Testing the benchmarks. Do the benchmarks that were derived several years ago make sense now that we have improved tools for measuring stove performance or do we get the same numbers because we’re using the same tools? Do the benchmarks tell us anything about stove performance in the field? Do stoves preform in the field in the same relative way they are shown to perform in the lab or are some stoves much better than others (or much worse) when they are used in the field? Are the stoves designed to the test (e.g. WBT) or to the use in the field? Do some stoves perform best when they are tested in the lab and fail in the field? Or, are we even testing for this?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Field applications. Are our tools and metrics of any use for improving stove performance in actual use? If so then how are projects in developing countries using these tools to improve their fuel use and health? How do local, nation, or regional stove projects use these tools to improve their stoves, or do they just ignore them?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>QA/QC. When a program buys container loads of stoves how do we know that they perform within the expectations created by the test results? Do any of the manufactured stove suppliers test the quality and performance of their stoves on a regular basis? Is there any monitoring?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>How has testing been used for different fuels? I was inspired this week by a photo from Mexican which a construction worker was using an LPG burner in an eCocina stove (Stove Team International) because it substantially reduced his LG use. Can we compare fuel consumption for different fuels? How good are our fuel consumption metrics?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Health. We still do not have proven direct correlation between stove emissions and heath. Most of the data seems to be recycled. Are there new health studies? Has GACC and the many supporting organizations funded any of the fundamental health studies that every year Jay Smith tells us are lacking?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>These are some of the questions that I would like to see addressed at ETHOS.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Looking forward to another productive ETHOS.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Tom </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>T R Miles Technical Consultants, Inc.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com">tmiles@trmiles.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.trmiles.com">www.trmiles.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.stove.bioenergylists.org">www.stove.bioenergylists.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-width:initial;border-color:initial'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><a href="mailto:ethos-bounces@vrac.iastate.edu">ethos-bounces@vrac.iastate.edu</a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>[<a href="mailto:ethos-bounces@vrac.iastate.edu">mailto:ethos-bounces@vrac.iastate.edu</a>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Bryden, Kenneth [M E]<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Monday, October 22, 2012 2:05 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves; ETHOS - Listserve<br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>[Ethos] ETHOS 2013</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>All,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>It's that time of year again! We're starting to get the activities together together for the ETHOS conference. The conference will be January 25 - 27, 2013 in Seattle. Proposed discussion topics include<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- Update on the Global Alliance and their activities<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- Standardizing Reporting on IWA Indicators<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- Stove Performance Inventory, Sharing Public Data, and Establishing Common Data Formats<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- Update on ISO Process<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- Updates on Protocol Developments (including possibly charcoal, plancha, batch-fed, durability, finalizing WBT from public comment period)<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Let us know what else you would like to talk about. A lot is happening and I'm sure it will be as exciting as ever. I'd appreciate having your ideas on topics and panels by November 15.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Abstracts for papers and talks are due January 1.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>For more details, to register, and to submit your abstract the conference web site is <a href="http://www.vrac.iastate.edu/ethos/conference.php">http://www.vrac.iastate.edu/ethos/conference.php</a>.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Please send your ideas directly to Dean and I.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Best regards<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Mark<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>