<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'><style>p { margin: 0; }</style><div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000">List and ccs<br><br> I haven't seen mentioned today a possible approach that might solve some of the indicated problems for extinguishing a char-making batch stove. This is the same that I mentioned to a smaller group a day or so ago. The idea would be to use a rock dust that one might want anyway for improving the char's soil augmentation properties. Some rock dusts are like biochar - carbon negative (as an oxide, hydroxide, sulfate etc changes with time over to a carbonate).<br><br> It would be simple to weigh (maybe just measure the volume of) the rock dust placed on top of the hot char to block air flow. If char is eligible for carbon credits, then the combination should be worth even more (the exact ratio of credits needs work).<br><br> A white "quenching" powder might even get additional credits for improving the albedo.<br><br> I think we are in agreement that we don't want to use water, nitrogen (costly) or CO2 (costly), but I think dirt (or sand/clay, etc - as suggested by Elisha) is also OK - as long as we weigh the amount used to extinguish. When one needs to measure and characterize the char, then a "vase" technique like Paul Olivier has suggested is probably needed. But smothering a bed of char which something that adds value to the char sounds easier to apply/manipulate than moving the hot char.<br><br> I am assisting with a project to collect data on biochar and rock dusts (and even better their use together) in field-performance. I'd love to hear from anyone with such data.<br><br>Ron<br><br><hr id="zwchr"><b>From: </b>"Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott@gmail.com><br><b>To: </b>"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, December 4, 2012 3:14:13 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Stoves] Equipment required for testing stoves<br><br><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Use an aluminum plate!</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">One problem would be the size of the char and the fact there is unburned torrefied wood inside some char. It won’t crush easily. It is a reason the error on the estimated heat value in the char is large.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Crispin</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0mm 0mm 0mm"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"> Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Kevin<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 05, 2012 12:09 AM<br><b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Equipment required for testing stoves</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">Dear Frank</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">What about 2 steel pie plates? Put char in one and cover with the other.</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">If char was very hot, to enhance cooling rate, set the bottom plate on a paper towel soaked in water, and spray the top plate with a water mist. </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">Best wishes,</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">Kevin</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0mm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">----- Original Message ----- </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:#E4E4E4"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"> <a href="mailto:frank@compostlab.com" title="frank@compostlab.com" target="_blank">Frank Shields</a> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">To:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'</a> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"> Tuesday, December 04, 2012 5:14 PM</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"> Re: [Stoves] Equipment required for testing stoves</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Paul,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">I like the vase. And having a pot of water on top collecting ‘energy’ as the WACW cools seems like a great method of measuring energy loss during the cooling that can be added on to the values determined from a ground and tested WACW. Wonder if that would work - Crispin? </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Frank</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"> Stoves [<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Olivier<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 04, 2012 12:41 PM<br><b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Equipment required for testing stoves</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">Frank,<br><br>Getting an accurate dry weight of biochar is indispensable in being able to sell it.<br>If we douse the biochar with water, then we no longer have an accurate measurement of dry weight.<br>Also biochar right out of the gasifier contains valuable heat that could be used in keeping food warm.<br><br>Therefore I designed a terracotta vase to contain the hot biochar.<br>A pot placed on top of the vase prevents oxygen from entering.<br>The vase shown in the drawing below can hold six liters of biochar.<br>This is the volume of rice hull biochar produced in my 150 gasifier.<br><a href="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier/Terrecotta%20Vase/Drawing/Terracotta%20Vase.pdf" target="_blank">https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier/Terrecotta%20Vase/Drawing/Terracotta%20Vase.pdf</a><br><br>Thanks.<br>Paul Olivier<br><br><br></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 3:20 AM, Frank Shields <<a href="mailto:frank@compostlab.com" target="_blank">frank@compostlab.com</a>> wrote:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">Hi Crispin,<br><br>Weighing the fuel when removed (hot and burning) and dry weight after<br>soaking with water, draining (screen) and drying is not a convenient<br>procedure to determine moisture left -and prone to error - but only method I<br>can think of at the moment.<br>Water puts out a fire by taking away its heat. So wondering if there is<br>another method that could be used? Combination nitrogen gas and pieces of<br>steel in a tumbler? Must be some way besides water.<br><br>Frank<br><br><br>Frank Shields<br>Control Laboratories, Inc.<br>42 Hangar Way<br>Watsonville, CA 95076<br>(831) 724-5422 tel<br>(831) 724-3188 fax<br><a href="http://www.biocharlab.com" target="_blank">www.biocharlab.com</a><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Stoves [mailto:<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] On Behalf Of<br>Crispin Pemberton-Pigott<br>Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 11:26 AM<br>To: Stoves<br>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Equipment required for testing stoves<br><br>Dear Frank<br><br>You are on the right track, in my view. The assumed energy for the wood and<br>char is a major source of imprecision in the test.<br><br>As for quenching with water: unfortunately we need to know the residual<br>moisture content of the fuel 'as removed'. That varies a lot depending on<br>the stove type. Quenching it with nitrogen is an alternative.<br><br>Regards<br>Crispin<br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: "Frank Shields" <<a href="mailto:frank@compostlab.com" target="_blank">frank@compostlab.com</a>><br>Sender: "Stoves" <<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 10:19:39<br>To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'<<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>Reply-To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br> <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>Subject: [Stoves] Equipment required for testing stoves<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists%0A.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists<br>.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists%0A.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists<br>.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>27/2 Phu Dong Tieng Vuong<br>Dalat<br>Vietnam<br><br>Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)<br>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>Skype address: Xpolivier<br><a href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a></span></p><div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span lang="EN-US"><hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a></span></p></blockquote></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>http://www.bioenergylists.org/<br><br></div></div></body></html>