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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Crispin and all,<br>
<br>
The Prakti 2-pot unit should be directly compared with the 2-pot
unit from Envirofit.<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.envirofit.org/products/?sub=cookstoves&pid=5">http://www.envirofit.org/products/?sub=cookstoves&pid=5</a> (to
see a photo).<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<h2 class="title">Double-Pot Attachment</h2>
<h2>Features</h2>
<div class="text">
<ul>
<li>The Double pot accessory with chimney is the perfect
add-on for customers who want the portability and ease of
using the single-pot stove, but need the extra cooking
area for large families, festivals, or cooking for
visitors.</li>
<li>The attachment is easily moved onto or off of the stove
for quick change ability but is steady and sturdy while
attached.</li>
<li>The chimney portion can be used as is - to move any
minimal emissions out of the face of the person cooking -
or can be vented out of the home. * Shown with G-3300
cookstove.</li>
</ul>
</div>
</blockquote>
And I am sure that there are other 2-pot stoves, but just not
being stamped out and with such smooth edges. Many of us have
made such units.<br>
<br>
What is needed is some serious study of these useful features,
whether built into the stove or as an attachment. Issues to be
studied include:<br>
heat transfer to EACH pot<br>
types of pots used (sit on top or inserted)<br>
insulation <br>
temperatures of the outside surfaces<br>
fuel efficiencies attributed to the second pot<br>
<br>
And of course, the ways of supplying heat to the 2-pot stove
structure. The fact that both the Prakti and Envirofit units use
Rocket combustion structures does not exclude use with other
combustors, such as<br>
TLUDs and even fossil-fuel burners.<br>
<br>
Important note: These 2-pot structures both (virtually all of
them?) have a chimney because horizontal flow of the hot gases
must eventually have some upward movement to maintain the draft
(exceptions if there are fans in use). For the TLUD combustors,
the chimney is a nice enhancement of the draft.<br>
<br>
I did not understand Crispin's comment about keeping the smoke and
flames together.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It
seems to me to be worth investigation the % of smoke that can
be burned by keeping the smoke and flames together for a
while. </span></blockquote>
That is true for "stick-burners" like the Rockets. But TLUDs are
"gas-burners" (that make their own gases in the close-coupled
gasifier reactors.) What would be the best ways to get the best
results with Rockets, TLUDs, or other heat sources?<br>
<br>
Regardless, this seems like a great topic for some research by the
now "product-independent" laboratories for stove testing, such as
CREEC and Zamorano and ARC. But the question is: who will pay
for these tests, and who will release the results? Past
practices have been that "he who pays decides what will be
released." And the chances of having both PRAKTI and Envirofit
pay and allow comparisons are about slim to none.<br>
<br>
And I am not going to pay for it. And the testing centers get
paid nothing for testing unless there are sponsors.<br>
<br>
So, I hope that the GACC will soon finance some comparative
testings of stove STRUCTURES that are not just focused on the
combustion devices. AND then do some testing of those same
STRUCTURES but with different systems of combustion, such as
having Champion or Mwoto or Quad TLUDs under identical 2-pot
structures..<br>
<br>
Happy New Year to all!!!<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 12/30/2012 4:24 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dear
Richard in NW Obamaland<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Agreed.
I was looking at the size of the opening at the top and
wondering how it burned. I have been working on the use of
flame tubes a-la-BLDD6 and earlier versions where the fire
is enclosed in a fairly small round channel.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">A
couple of weeks ago I tried installing a 57mm I.D. flame
tube in a horizontal draft two-pot stove (I will add
pictures later) to see if the smoke could be burned
post-pot-1. It worked pretty well. I do not yet have
definitive numbers but as a design approach it definitely
worked. There are a number of stoves that have far too much
space after the fire, allowing the smoke and flames to take
separate routs to the outlet.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">So
the stove in question has a huge outlet so if smoke manages
to get to a corner, it has ample space to escape to the
margins away from Pot 2. It seems to me to be worth
investigation the % of smoke that can be burned by keeping
the smoke and flames together for a while. There are several
stoves with a suitable layout for this. One is the three-pot
stove used in Indonesia consisting of separate clay round
sections with interconnecting tunnels. If the tunnels were
reduced in diameter to the point at which they became an
impediment to gas flow, that would maximise the chance of
burning the smoke. If the flame was entering the tube in the
simple experiment I conducted, the smoke was dramatically
reduced showing a reproducible and consistent effect.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
really like the cast iron grate in the Prakti stove with a
thickened front bar that will resist banging from heavy wood
sitting on it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Crispin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Crispin,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This seems to be c similar o what was
coming from the Dutch TOOL foundation in (A ' dam) in the
late 70's. They were trying to replicate them thru our
center (AATP) during that time but it never really took on. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Richard Stanley<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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