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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Paul and others if you were having trouble with
Gustavo's sketch up images of the 2 pot stove Goolge Sketch up is available for
free thru downloads at <A
href="http://www.cnet.comoc">www.cnet.comoc</A> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Michael</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Majuor</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=psanders@ilstu.edu href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">Paul Anderson</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 31, 2012 11:26
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] Stove ID please -
2-pot stoves - testing needed</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=moz-cite-prefix>Crispin and all,<BR><BR>The Prakti 2-pot unit
should be directly compared with the 2-pot unit from Envirofit.<BR><BR><A
class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://www.envirofit.org/products/?sub=cookstoves&pid=5">http://www.envirofit.org/products/?sub=cookstoves&pid=5</A>
(to see a photo).<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<H2 class=title>Double-Pot Attachment</H2>
<H2>Features</H2>
<DIV class=text>
<UL>
<LI>The Double pot accessory with chimney is the perfect add-on for
customers who want the portability and ease of using the single-pot stove,
but need the extra cooking area for large families, festivals, or cooking
for visitors.
<LI>The attachment is easily moved onto or off of the stove for quick
change ability but is steady and sturdy while attached.
<LI>The chimney portion can be used as is - to move any minimal emissions
out of the face of the person cooking - or can be vented out of the home.
* Shown with G-3300 cookstove. </LI></UL></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>And I am sure that
there are other 2-pot stoves, but just not being stamped out and with such
smooth edges. Many of us have made such units.<BR><BR>What is
needed is some serious study of these useful features, whether built into the
stove or as an attachment. Issues to be studied include:<BR>heat
transfer to EACH pot<BR>types of pots used (sit on top or
inserted)<BR>insulation <BR>temperatures of the outside surfaces<BR>fuel
efficiencies attributed to the second pot<BR><BR>And of course, the ways of
supplying heat to the 2-pot stove structure. The fact that both
the Prakti and Envirofit units use Rocket combustion structures does not
exclude use with other combustors, such as<BR>TLUDs and even fossil-fuel
burners.<BR><BR>Important note: These 2-pot structures both (virtually
all of them?) have a chimney because horizontal flow of the hot gases must
eventually have some upward movement to maintain the draft (exceptions if
there are fans in use). For the TLUD combustors, the chimney is a
nice enhancement of the draft.<BR><BR>I did not understand Crispin's comment
about keeping the smoke and flames together.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">It
seems to me to be worth investigation the % of smoke that can be burned by
keeping the smoke and flames together for a while. </SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>That is
true for "stick-burners" like the Rockets. But TLUDs are "gas-burners"
(that make their own gases in the close-coupled gasifier
reactors.) What would be the best ways to get the best results
with Rockets, TLUDs, or other heat sources?<BR><BR>Regardless, this seems like
a great topic for some research by the now "product-independent" laboratories
for stove testing, such as CREEC and Zamorano and ARC. But the
question is: who will pay for these tests, and who will release
the results? Past practices have been that "he who pays decides
what will be released." And the chances of having both PRAKTI and
Envirofit pay and allow comparisons are about slim to none.<BR><BR>And I am
not going to pay for it. And the testing centers get paid nothing
for testing unless there are sponsors.<BR><BR>So, I hope that the GACC will
soon finance some comparative testings of stove STRUCTURES that are not just
focused on the combustion devices. AND then do some testing of
those same STRUCTURES but with different systems of combustion, such as having
Champion or Mwoto or Quad TLUDs under identical 2-pot
structures..<BR><BR>Happy New Year to all!!!<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR><PRE class=moz-signature cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</A> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</A></PRE>On
12/30/2012 4:24 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:028d01cde6dc$74b38c90$5e1aa5b0$@gmail.com type="cite">
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<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Dear
Richard in NW Obamaland<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Agreed.
I was looking at the size of the opening at the top and wondering how it
burned. I have been working on the use of flame tubes a-la-BLDD6 and earlier
versions where the fire is enclosed in a fairly small round
channel.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">A
couple of weeks ago I tried installing a 57mm I.D. flame tube in a
horizontal draft two-pot stove (I will add pictures later) to see if the
smoke could be burned post-pot-1. It worked pretty well. I do not yet have
definitive numbers but as a design approach it definitely worked. There are
a number of stoves that have far too much space after the fire, allowing the
smoke and flames to take separate routs to the outlet.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">So
the stove in question has a huge outlet so if smoke manages to get to a
corner, it has ample space to escape to the margins away from Pot 2. It
seems to me to be worth investigation the % of smoke that can be burned by
keeping the smoke and flames together for a while. There are several stoves
with a suitable layout for this. One is the three-pot stove used in
Indonesia consisting of separate clay round sections with interconnecting
tunnels. If the tunnels were reduced in diameter to the point at which they
became an impediment to gas flow, that would maximise the chance of burning
the smoke. If the flame was entering the tube in the simple experiment I
conducted, the smoke was dramatically reduced showing a reproducible and
consistent effect.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I
really like the cast iron grate in the Prakti stove with a thickened front
bar that will resist banging from heavy wood sitting on
it.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Regards<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Crispin<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Crispin,<O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>This seems to be c similar o what was coming from the
Dutch TOOL foundation in (A ' dam) in the late 70's. They were trying
to replicate them thru our center (AATP) during that time but it never
really took on. <O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Richard Stanley<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>
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