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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Dear Mark</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>They are an Image, but in .png format. I can't open that
format either!! :-(</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Would you be able to re-post them in .jpg
format?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Thanks!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Kevin</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mpare@gatech.edu href="mailto:mpare@gatech.edu">Marc Pare</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 02, 2013 1:45
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] Stove ID please -
2-pot stoves - testing needed</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>In case anyone needs these: I opened the Sketchup files and rendered them
as images. They're attached.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>You can download Sketchup at <A
href="http://www.sketchup.com/">http://www.sketchup.com/</A></DIV>
<DIV>It's a free 3D modeling software that is designed to be intuitive to use.
It's target audience is architecture drawings, but I've found it nice to bang
out schematics for reports as well.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Marc Paré<BR>B.S. Mechanical Engineering<BR>Georgia Institute of
Technology | Université de Technologie de Compiègne<BR><BR>my cv, etc. | <A
href="http://notwandering.com"
target=_blank>http://notwandering.com</A></DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Richard Stanley <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:rstanley@legacyfound.org"
target=_blank>rstanley@legacyfound.org</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">Michael,
<DIV>Presuming this is yourself speaking, <A href="http://cnet.com"
target=_blank>cnet.com</A> goes even further astray.
<DIV>Oh well, will go to Guatavo for the .skp file direct.</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=HOEnZb><FONT color=#888888>Richard </FONT></SPAN>
<DIV>
<DIV class=h5><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>On Jan 1, 2013, at 8:52 PM, mtrevor wrote:</DIV><BR>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Like I corrected <A href="http://www.cnet.com/"
target=_blank>www.cnet.com</A> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Michael</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>From:</B> <A
title=rstanley@legacyfound.org href="mailto:rstanley@legacyfound.org"
target=_blank>Richard Stanley</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target=_blank>Discussion of
biomass cooking stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 02, 2013
2:26 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] Stove ID please
- 2-pot stoves - testing needed</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Michael,
<DIV>Are you sure that this <SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: small"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: small"><A
style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"
href="http://www.cnet.comoc/" target=_blank>www.cnet.comoc</A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: small"> </SPAN> is the
right link: I can't open it on my Mac. /Safari server.</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Richard</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV> <BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Jan 1, 2013, at 1:32 PM, mtrevor wrote:</DIV><BR>
<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Paul and others if you were having trouble with
Gustavo's sketch up images of the 2 pot stove Goolge Sketch up is
available for free thru downloads at <A href="http://www.cnet.comoc/"
target=_blank>www.cnet.comoc</A> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Michael</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Majuor</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>From:</B> <A
title=psanders@ilstu.edu href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu"
target=_blank>Paul Anderson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target=_blank>Discussion
of biomass cooking stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 31, 2012
11:26 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] Stove ID
please - 2-pot stoves - testing needed</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Crispin and all,<BR><BR>The Prakti 2-pot unit should be directly
compared with the 2-pot unit from Envirofit.<BR><BR><A
href="http://www.envirofit.org/products/?sub=cookstoves&pid=5"
target=_blank>http://www.envirofit.org/products/?sub=cookstoves&pid=5</A>
(to see a photo).<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<H2>Double-Pot Attachment</H2>
<H2>Features</H2>
<DIV>
<UL>
<LI>The Double pot accessory with chimney is the perfect add-on for
customers who want the portability and ease of using the single-pot
stove, but need the extra cooking area for large families,
festivals, or cooking for visitors.
<LI>The attachment is easily moved onto or off of the stove for
quick change ability but is steady and sturdy while attached.
<LI>The chimney portion can be used as is - to move any minimal
emissions out of the face of the person cooking - or can be vented
out of the home. * Shown with G-3300 cookstove.
</LI></UL></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>And I am sure that there are other 2-pot
stoves, but just not being stamped out and with such smooth
edges. Many of us have made such units.<BR><BR>What is
needed is some serious study of these useful features, whether built
into the stove or as an attachment. Issues to be studied
include:<BR>heat transfer to EACH pot<BR>types of pots used (sit on top
or inserted)<BR>insulation <BR>temperatures of the outside
surfaces<BR>fuel efficiencies attributed to the second pot<BR><BR>And of
course, the ways of supplying heat to the 2-pot stove
structure. The fact that both the Prakti and Envirofit units
use Rocket combustion structures does not exclude use with other
combustors, such as<BR>TLUDs and even fossil-fuel
burners.<BR><BR>Important note: These 2-pot structures both
(virtually all of them?) have a chimney because horizontal flow of the
hot gases must eventually have some upward movement to maintain the
draft (exceptions if there are fans in use). For the TLUD
combustors, the chimney is a nice enhancement of the draft.<BR><BR>I did
not understand Crispin's comment about keeping the smoke and flames
together.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">It
seems to me to be worth investigation the % of smoke that can be
burned by keeping the smoke and flames together for a while.
</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>That is true for "stick-burners" like the Rockets.
But TLUDs are "gas-burners" (that make their own gases in the
close-coupled gasifier reactors.) What would be the best
ways to get the best results with Rockets, TLUDs, or other heat
sources?<BR><BR>Regardless, this seems like a great topic for some
research by the now "product-independent" laboratories for stove
testing, such as CREEC and Zamorano and ARC. But the
question is: who will pay for these tests, and who will
release the results? Past practices have been that "he who
pays decides what will be released." And the chances of
having both PRAKTI and Envirofit pay and allow comparisons are about
slim to none.<BR><BR>And I am not going to pay for it. And
the testing centers get paid nothing for testing unless there are
sponsors.<BR><BR>So, I hope that the GACC will soon finance some
comparative testings of stove STRUCTURES that are not just focused on
the combustion devices. AND then do some testing of those
same STRUCTURES but with different systems of combustion, such as having
Champion or Mwoto or Quad TLUDs under identical 2-pot
structures..<BR><BR>Happy New Year to all!!!<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR><PRE cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <A href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target=_blank>psanders@ilstu.edu</A> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <A href="http://www.drtlud.com/" target=_blank>www.drtlud.com</A></PRE>On
12/30/2012 4:24 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Dear
Richard in NW Obamaland<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Agreed.
I was looking at the size of the opening at the top and wondering how
it burned. I have been working on the use of flame tubes a-la-BLDD6
and earlier versions where the fire is enclosed in a fairly small
round channel.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">A
couple of weeks ago I tried installing a 57mm I.D. flame tube in a
horizontal draft two-pot stove (I will add pictures later) to see if
the smoke could be burned post-pot-1. It worked pretty well. I do not
yet have definitive numbers but as a design approach it definitely
worked. There are a number of stoves that have far too much space
after the fire, allowing the smoke and flames to take separate routs
to the outlet.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">So
the stove in question has a huge outlet so if smoke manages to get to
a corner, it has ample space to escape to the margins away from Pot 2.
It seems to me to be worth investigation the % of smoke that can be
burned by keeping the smoke and flames together for a while. There are
several stoves with a suitable layout for this. One is the three-pot
stove used in Indonesia consisting of separate clay round sections
with interconnecting tunnels. If the tunnels were reduced in diameter
to the point at which they became an impediment to gas flow, that
would maximise the chance of burning the smoke. If the flame was
entering the tube in the simple experiment I conducted, the smoke was
dramatically reduced showing a reproducible and consistent
effect.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I
really like the cast iron grate in the Prakti stove with a thickened
front bar that will resist banging from heavy wood sitting on
it.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Regards<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Crispin<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Crispin,<U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>This seems to be c similar o what was coming from
the Dutch TOOL foundation in (A ' dam) in the late 70's. They
were trying to replicate them thru our center (AATP) during that time
but it never really took on. <U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Richard Stanley<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U></P></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>
<FIELDSET></FIELDSET> <BR><PRE>_______________________________________________
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</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<HR>
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<DIV><BR></DIV>
<HR>
<DIV><BR></DIV><A></A>
<P align=left color="#000000">No virus found in this message.<BR>Checked
by AVG - <A href="http://www.avg.com/"
target=_blank>www.avg.com</A><BR>Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database:
2637/5996 - Release Date:
12/29/12</P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves
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<HR>
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<DIV><BR></DIV>
<HR>
<DIV><BR></DIV><A></A>
<P align=left color="#000000">No virus found in this message.<BR>Checked
by AVG - <A href="http://www.avg.com/"
target=_blank>www.avg.com</A><BR>Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database:
2637/6001 - Release Date:
01/01/13</P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves
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