<html><head></head><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>Marc</div><div><br></div><div> Are you coming to ETHOS?</div><div><br></div><div>Ron<br><br><br></div><div><br>On Jan 1, 2013, at 10:45 PM, Marc Pare <<a href="mailto:mpare@gatech.edu">mpare@gatech.edu</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div>In case anyone needs these: I opened the Sketchup files and rendered them as images. They're attached.</div><div><br></div><div>You can download Sketchup at <a href="http://www.sketchup.com/">http://www.sketchup.com/</a></div>
<div>It's a free 3D modeling software that is designed to be intuitive to use. It's target audience is architecture drawings, but I've found it nice to bang out schematics for reports as well.</div><div><br></div>
<div>Marc Paré<br>B.S. Mechanical Engineering<br>Georgia Institute of Technology | Université de Technologie de Compiègne<br><br>my cv, etc. | <a href="http://notwandering.com" target="_blank">http://notwandering.com</a></div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Richard Stanley <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rstanley@legacyfound.org" target="_blank">rstanley@legacyfound.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Michael, <div>Presuming this is yourself speaking, <a href="http://cnet.com" target="_blank">cnet.com</a> goes even further astray.<div>Oh well, will go to Guatavo for the .skp file direct.</div>
<div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">Richard </font></span><div><div class="h5"><br><div><div><br></div><div>On Jan 1, 2013, at 8:52 PM, mtrevor wrote:</div><br>
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial">Like I corrected <a href="http://www.cnet.com/" target="_blank">www.cnet.com</a> </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Michael</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>----- Original Message ----- </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px" dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b>From:</b>
<a title="rstanley@legacyfound.org" href="mailto:rstanley@legacyfound.org" target="_blank">Richard Stanley</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 02, 2013 2:26
PM</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Stove ID please -
2-pot stoves - testing needed</div>
<div><br></div>Michael,
<div>Are you sure that this <span style="FONT-FAMILY:Arial;FONT-SIZE:small"> </span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:Arial;FONT-SIZE:small"><a style="COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline" href="http://www.cnet.comoc/" target="_blank">www.cnet.comoc</a></span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:Arial;FONT-SIZE:small"> </span> is the right link: I can't open it
on my Mac. /Safari server.</div>
<div>
<div>Richard</div>
<div><br></div>
<div> <br>
<div>
<div>On Jan 1, 2013, at 1:32 PM, mtrevor wrote:</div><br>
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial">Paul and others if you were having trouble with
Gustavo's sketch up images of the 2 pot stove Goolge Sketch up is available
for free thru downloads at <a href="http://www.cnet.comoc/" target="_blank">www.cnet.comoc</a> </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Michael</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">Majuor</font></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px" dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b>From:</b>
<a title="psanders@ilstu.edu" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">Paul
Anderson</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 31, 2012 11:26
AM</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Stove ID please -
2-pot stoves - testing needed</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Crispin and all,<br><br>The Prakti 2-pot unit
should be directly compared with the 2-pot unit from Envirofit.<br><br><a href="http://www.envirofit.org/products/?sub=cookstoves&pid=5" target="_blank">http://www.envirofit.org/products/?sub=cookstoves&pid=5</a>
(to see a photo).<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<h2>Double-Pot Attachment</h2>
<h2>Features</h2>
<div>
<ul>
<li>The Double pot accessory with chimney is the perfect add-on for
customers who want the portability and ease of using the single-pot
stove, but need the extra cooking area for large families, festivals, or
cooking for visitors.
</li><li>The attachment is easily moved onto or off of the stove for quick
change ability but is steady and sturdy while attached.
</li><li>The chimney portion can be used as is - to move any minimal
emissions out of the face of the person cooking - or can be vented out
of the home. * Shown with G-3300 cookstove. </li></ul></div></blockquote>And
I am sure that there are other 2-pot stoves, but just not being stamped out
and with such smooth edges. Many of us have made such
units.<br><br>What is needed is some serious study of these useful features,
whether built into the stove or as an attachment. Issues to be
studied include:<br>heat transfer to EACH pot<br>types of pots used (sit on
top or inserted)<br>insulation <br>temperatures of the outside
surfaces<br>fuel efficiencies attributed to the second pot<br><br>And of
course, the ways of supplying heat to the 2-pot stove structure.
The fact that both the Prakti and Envirofit units use Rocket combustion
structures does not exclude use with other combustors, such as<br>TLUDs and
even fossil-fuel burners.<br><br>Important note: These 2-pot
structures both (virtually all of them?) have a chimney because horizontal
flow of the hot gases must eventually have some upward movement to maintain
the draft (exceptions if there are fans in use). For the TLUD
combustors, the chimney is a nice enhancement of the draft.<br><br>I did not
understand Crispin's comment about keeping the smoke and flames
together.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">It
seems to me to be worth investigation the % of smoke that can be burned by
keeping the smoke and flames together for a while. </span></blockquote>That
is true for "stick-burners" like the Rockets. But TLUDs are
"gas-burners" (that make their own gases in the close-coupled gasifier
reactors.) What would be the best ways to get the best results
with Rockets, TLUDs, or other heat sources?<br><br>Regardless, this seems
like a great topic for some research by the now "product-independent"
laboratories for stove testing, such as CREEC and Zamorano and
ARC. But the question is: who will pay for these
tests, and who will release the results? Past practices have
been that "he who pays decides what will be released." And the
chances of having both PRAKTI and Envirofit pay and allow comparisons are
about slim to none.<br><br>And I am not going to pay for it. And
the testing centers get paid nothing for testing unless there are
sponsors.<br><br>So, I hope that the GACC will soon finance some comparative
testings of stove STRUCTURES that are not just focused on the combustion
devices. AND then do some testing of those same STRUCTURES but
with different systems of combustion, such as having Champion or Mwoto or
Quad TLUDs under identical 2-pot structures..<br><br>Happy New Year to
all!!!<br><br>Paul<br><br><pre cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com/" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>On
12/30/2012 4:24 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Dear
Richard in NW Obamaland<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Agreed.
I was looking at the size of the opening at the top and wondering how it
burned. I have been working on the use of flame tubes a-la-BLDD6 and
earlier versions where the fire is enclosed in a fairly small round
channel.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">A
couple of weeks ago I tried installing a 57mm I.D. flame tube in a
horizontal draft two-pot stove (I will add pictures later) to see if the
smoke could be burned post-pot-1. It worked pretty well. I do not yet have
definitive numbers but as a design approach it definitely worked. There
are a number of stoves that have far too much space after the fire,
allowing the smoke and flames to take separate routs to the
outlet.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">So
the stove in question has a huge outlet so if smoke manages to get to a
corner, it has ample space to escape to the margins away from Pot 2. It
seems to me to be worth investigation the % of smoke that can be burned by
keeping the smoke and flames together for a while. There are several
stoves with a suitable layout for this. One is the three-pot stove used in
Indonesia consisting of separate clay round sections with interconnecting
tunnels. If the tunnels were reduced in diameter to the point at which
they became an impediment to gas flow, that would maximise the chance of
burning the smoke. If the flame was entering the tube in the simple
experiment I conducted, the smoke was dramatically reduced showing a
reproducible and consistent effect.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">I
really like the cast iron grate in the Prakti stove with a thickened front
bar that will resist banging from heavy wood sitting on
it.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Regards<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Crispin<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">Crispin,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal">This seems to be c similar o what was coming from the
Dutch TOOL foundation in (A ' dam) in the late 70's. They were
trying to replicate them thru our center (AATP) during that time but it
never really took on. <u></u><u></u></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal">Richard Stanley<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div><br>
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</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><Cocina carbón BTM.png></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><Cocina carbón TOP.png></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><Eckoplancha.png></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><metalica SHADED.png></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><metalica XRAY.png></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Stoves mailing list</span><br><span></span><br><span>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address</span><br><span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page</span><br><span><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:</span><br><span><a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a></span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>