<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=iso-8859-1"><base href="x-msg://699/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">check if that works<div>happy new Year to all, Christa</div><div><img height="462" width="640" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" id="fd47f5e7-cff7-4211-99da-7a31b752bc68" src="cid:155A6892-76FD-4334-A18F-056E86FAF359"><img height="462" width="640" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" id="aa8a7948-75ff-45ec-9ff7-c3d15d50f5c5" src="cid:9B191794-0FE4-4143-B01C-213FEA57632C"><img height="462" width="640" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" id="d474919d-2553-43ea-8afa-8e7358a289a5" src="cid:2205CC93-F584-4C49-9E61-A783DE4EA76F"><img height="462" width="640" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" id="44f35114-cfd8-4901-9e33-d7981647f47a" src="cid:1CBE5C47-AF5F-409C-952F-66D0A8640AF3"><img height="462" width="640" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" id="42e1fcb9-e8cd-431c-9010-8a1d125d6dfc" src="cid:1545AD96-1BB7-481C-A198-F74D5E05BB30"></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>Am 02.01.2013 um 12:05 schrieb Kevin <<a href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</a>>:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#ffffff" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div><font face="Arial">Dear Mark</font></div><div><font face="Arial"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial">They are an Image, but in .png format. I can't open that format either!! :-(</font></div><div><font face="Arial"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial">Would you be able to re-post them in .jpg format?</font></div><div><font face="Arial"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial">Thanks!</font></div><div><font face="Arial"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial">Kevin</font></div><blockquote style="border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; "><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial; ">----- Original Message -----</div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="mpare@gatech.edu" href="mailto:mpare@gatech.edu">Marc Pare</a></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial; "><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</a></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial; "><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, January 02, 2013 1:45 AM</div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial; "><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Stoves] Stove ID please - 2-pot stoves - testing needed</div><div><br></div><div>In case anyone needs these: I opened the Sketchup files and rendered them as images. They're attached.</div><div><br></div><div>You can download Sketchup at <a href="http://www.sketchup.com/">http://www.sketchup.com/</a></div><div>It's a free 3D modeling software that is designed to be intuitive to use. It's target audience is architecture drawings, but I've found it nice to bang out schematics for reports as well.</div><div><br></div><div>Marc Paré<br>B.S. Mechanical Engineering<br>Georgia Institute of Technology | Université de Technologie de Compiègne<br><br>my cv, etc. |<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://notwandering.com" target="_blank">http://notwandering.com</a></div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Richard Stanley<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rstanley@legacyfound.org" target="_blank">rstanley@legacyfound.org</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; ">Michael, <div>Presuming this is yourself speaking, <a href="http://cnet.com" target="_blank">cnet.com</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>goes even further astray.<div>Oh well, will go to Guatavo for the .skp file direct.</div><div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">Richard </font></span><div><div class="h5"><br><div><div><br></div><div>On Jan 1, 2013, at 8:52 PM, mtrevor wrote:</div><br><div bgcolor="#ffffff" style="word-wrap: break-word; "><div><font face="Arial">Like I corrected<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.cnet.com/" target="_blank">www.cnet.com</a> </font></div><div><font face="Arial"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial">Michael</font></div><div> </div><div> </div><div>----- Original Message -----</div><blockquote dir="ltr" style="border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; "><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="rstanley@legacyfound.org" href="mailto:rstanley@legacyfound.org" target="_blank">Richard Stanley</a></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial; "><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</a></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial; "><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, January 02, 2013 2:26 PM</div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial; "><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Stoves] Stove ID please - 2-pot stoves - testing needed</div><div><br></div>Michael,<div>Are you sure that this <span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: small; "> </span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: small; "><a href="http://www.cnet.comoc/" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.cnet.comoc</a></span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: small; "> </span> is the right link: I can't open it on my Mac. /Safari server.</div><div><div>Richard</div><div><br></div><div> <br><div><div>On Jan 1, 2013, at 1:32 PM, mtrevor wrote:</div><br><div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"><div><font face="Arial">Paul and others if you were having trouble with Gustavo's sketch up images of the 2 pot stove Goolge Sketch up is available for free thru downloads at<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.cnet.comoc/" target="_blank">www.cnet.comoc</a> </font></div><div><font face="Arial"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial">Michael</font></div><div><font face="Arial">Majuor</font></div><blockquote dir="ltr" style="border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; "><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial; ">----- Original Message -----</div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="psanders@ilstu.edu" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">Paul Anderson</a></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial; "><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</a></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial; "><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, December 31, 2012 11:26 AM</div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial; "><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Stoves] Stove ID please - 2-pot stoves - testing needed</div><div><br></div><div>Crispin and all,<br><br>The Prakti 2-pot unit should be directly compared with the 2-pot unit from Envirofit.<br><br><a href="http://www.envirofit.org/products/?sub=cookstoves&pid=5" target="_blank">http://www.envirofit.org/products/?sub=cookstoves&pid=5</a> (to see a photo).<br><blockquote type="cite"><h2>Double-Pot Attachment</h2><h2>Features</h2><div><ul><li>The Double pot accessory with chimney is the perfect add-on for customers who want the portability and ease of using the single-pot stove, but need the extra cooking area for large families, festivals, or cooking for visitors.</li><li>The attachment is easily moved onto or off of the stove for quick change ability but is steady and sturdy while attached.</li><li>The chimney portion can be used as is - to move any minimal emissions out of the face of the person cooking - or can be vented out of the home. * Shown with G-3300 cookstove.</li></ul></div></blockquote>And I am sure that there are other 2-pot stoves, but just not being stamped out and with such smooth edges. Many of us have made such units.<br><br>What is needed is some serious study of these useful features, whether built into the stove or as an attachment. Issues to be studied include:<br>heat transfer to EACH pot<br>types of pots used (sit on top or inserted)<br>insulation<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>temperatures of the outside surfaces<br>fuel efficiencies attributed to the second pot<br><br>And of course, the ways of supplying heat to the 2-pot stove structure. The fact that both the Prakti and Envirofit units use Rocket combustion structures does not exclude use with other combustors, such as<br>TLUDs and even fossil-fuel burners.<br><br>Important note: These 2-pot structures both (virtually all of them?) have a chimney because horizontal flow of the hot gases must eventually have some upward movement to maintain the draft (exceptions if there are fans in use). For the TLUD combustors, the chimney is a nice enhancement of the draft.<br><br>I did not understand Crispin's comment about keeping the smoke and flames together.<br><blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; ">It seems to me to be worth investigation the % of smoke that can be burned by keeping the smoke and flames together for a while.</span></blockquote>That is true for "stick-burners" like the Rockets. But TLUDs are "gas-burners" (that make their own gases in the close-coupled gasifier reactors.) What would be the best ways to get the best results with Rockets, TLUDs, or other heat sources?<br><br>Regardless, this seems like a great topic for some research by the now "product-independent" laboratories for stove testing, such as CREEC and Zamorano and ARC. But the question is: who will pay for these tests, and who will release the results? Past practices have been that "he who pays decides what will be released." And the chances of having both PRAKTI and Envirofit pay and allow comparisons are about slim to none.<br><br>And I am not going to pay for it. And the testing centers get paid nothing for testing unless there are sponsors.<br><br>So, I hope that the GACC will soon finance some comparative testings of stove STRUCTURES that are not just focused on the combustion devices. AND then do some testing of those same STRUCTURES but with different systems of combustion, such as having Champion or Mwoto or Quad TLUDs under identical 2-pot structures..<br><br>Happy New Year to all!!!<br><br>Paul<br><br><pre cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com/" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>On 12/30/2012 4:24 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; ">Dear Richard in NW Obamaland<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; "><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; ">Agreed. I was looking at the size of the opening at the top and wondering how it burned. I have been working on the use of flame tubes a-la-BLDD6 and earlier versions where the fire is enclosed in a fairly small round channel.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; "><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; ">A couple of weeks ago I tried installing a 57mm I.D. flame tube in a horizontal draft two-pot stove (I will add pictures later) to see if the smoke could be burned post-pot-1. It worked pretty well. I do not yet have definitive numbers but as a design approach it definitely worked. There are a number of stoves that have far too much space after the fire, allowing the smoke and flames to take separate routs to the outlet.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; "><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; ">So the stove in question has a huge outlet so if smoke manages to get to a corner, it has ample space to escape to the margins away from Pot 2. It seems to me to be worth investigation the % of smoke that can be burned by keeping the smoke and flames together for a while. There are several stoves with a suitable layout for this. One is the three-pot stove used in Indonesia consisting of separate clay round sections with interconnecting tunnels. If the tunnels were reduced in diameter to the point at which they became an impediment to gas flow, that would maximise the chance of burning the smoke. If the flame was entering the tube in the simple experiment I conducted, the smoke was dramatically reduced showing a reproducible and consistent effect.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; "><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; ">I really like the cast iron grate in the Prakti stove with a thickened front bar that will resist banging from heavy wood sitting on it.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; "><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; ">Regards<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; ">Crispin<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; "><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; "><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">Crispin,<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">This seems to be c similar o what was coming from the Dutch TOOL foundation in (A ' dam) in the late 70's. They were trying to replicate them thru our center (AATP) during that time but it never really took on. <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Richard Stanley<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div><br><fieldset></fieldset><br><pre>_______________________________________________
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</pre></blockquote><br><div><br></div><hr><div><br></div>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br><div><br></div><hr><div><br></div><a></a><p align="left">No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG -<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.avg.com/" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/5996 - Release Date: 12/29/12</p></blockquote></div>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br></div><br></div></div><div><br></div><hr><div><br></div>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br><div><br></div><hr><div><br></div><a></a><p align="left">No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG -<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.avg.com/" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/6001 - Release Date: 01/01/13</p></blockquote></div>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br></div><br></div></div></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br><br></blockquote></div><br><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><hr><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br></blockquote>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>