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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Dear Ron</FONT></DIV>
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style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rongretlarson@comcast.net
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=kchisholm@ca.inter.net
href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net">Kevin Chisholm</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 17, 2013 12:16
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] New paper on
atmospheric Black Carbon</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Kevin and
list: See below<BR><BR>
<HR id=zwchr>
<B>From: </B>"Kevin" <<A
href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</A>><BR><B>To:
</B>"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>><BR><B>Sent:
</B>Wednesday, January 16, 2013 8:34:01 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: [Stoves] New
paper on atmospheric Black Carbon<BR><BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Dear Ron</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>You mention $16 and $27 per tonne CO2 equivalent. I
presume you are referring to a payment that one would receive when showing
that one has earned a tonne of CO2 equivalent.<BR>
<B>[RWL: Yup - examples only - hopefully larger.]</B></FONT></DIV><FONT
face=Arial><STRONG></STRONG></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial><STRONG><EM><FONT size=4># Prices seem to vary all
over the place to purchase carbon credits. What is the present price that a
biochar producer could expect to receive as a carbon Credit for the biochar he
produced? It is one thing to hope for future price increases for Carbon
Credits, but is that realistic? Would you perhaps have a graph that shows the
price trend for CarbonCrdits that you could share with the
Lists?</FONT></EM></STRONG>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
face=Arial>1: Where would one apply to get such payments?
<B>[RWL: Anywhere one can. Numerous stove promoters on this list
already getting some.]</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><STRONG><EM><FONT
size=4># OK!! Can you tell the Stoves and Biochar Lists where they could apply
to get Carbon Credit payments for the biochar they
produce?</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV><FONT
face=Arial><STRONG></STRONG></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
face=Arial>2: Who would be eligible to receive such payments?
<B>[RWL: Anyone who can prove they deserve
them.]</B></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG></STRONG></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial><STRONG><FONT size=4><EM># That makes
sense.</EM></FONT> </STRONG>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
face=Arial>3: What conditions must be met, before the payments would actually
be made? <B>[RWL: Whatever is acceptable to the presumably
willing buyer of the credits.]</B></FONT></DIV><FONT
face=Arial><STRONG></STRONG></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial><STRONG><EM><FONT size=4># That does not make sense
at all! Surely there must be some rules or standards that must be met to
ensure that the Carbon Credits are real. If not, then the entire system is
open to fraud.</FONT></EM></STRONG>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
face=Arial>I am concerned that with the state of the World Economy,
Governments will lose their interest in longer term Climate Change Concerns,
and would put their priorities on addressing short term and more immediate
concerns. <B>[RWL: We disagree.]</B></FONT></DIV><FONT
face=Arial><STRONG></STRONG></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG><EM><FONT size=4># What is your basis for
disagreement? Kyoto seems to be dead in the water. At the last meeting, I
believe that most Governments said "We will do something about controlling CO2
emissions sometime after 2020, but we will not say what we will do, and when
we will do it." Is this a reasonable summation? If you feel not, what would
you feel is?</FONT></EM></STRONG></FONT><FONT face=Arial></DIV></FONT>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
face=Arial>What are your views on the future of Carbon Credit payments?
<B>[RWL: They will slowly creep up in price (maybe in time to do
some good). Biochar credits from char-making stoves look like the
easiest to sell of any.</B></FONT></DIV><FONT
face=Arial><B></B></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG><EM><FONT size=4># The recent report on the
important impact of Black Carbon on climate change would seem to reduce the
relative importance of the CO2 parameter. As I understand it, most "generally
accepted Climate Change Models" were calibrated under the assumption that BC
was a minor or insignificant factor, and the model factors were adjusted to
relate observed temperature rise to anthropogenic CO2. Now that BC could
have a "forcing effect" perhaps 2/3 as great as the present forcing effect
attributed to CO2, recalibrating the models to reflect the increased
importance of BC will inherently diminish the importance of CO2 as a factor in
CAGW (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming). Accordingly, it would
seem reasonable to project a significant decline in "Carbon Credit Revenue" to
biochar producers. Does this seem reasonable? If not, why
not?</FONT></EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG><EM><FONT
size=4></FONT></EM></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG><EM><FONT size=4># Concerning carbon credits for
biochar from char-making stoves, would you have an approximate idea of the
value of the carbon credits per tonne for such biochar? Would you have an
approximate idea of the annual tonnage of biochar that is sold in connection
with a carbon credit payment.</FONT></EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG><EM><FONT
size=4></FONT></EM></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG><EM><FONT size=4># As we all know,
"adequate carbon credit payments" could lead to a huge increase in biochar
production and use. However, if it is unreasonable to believe that "adequate
carbon credit payments" will be available soon, then stoves and biochar must
rise on their own inherent merits, without such support. Holding onto a false
hope can only result in disappointment.</FONT></EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG><EM><FONT
size=4></FONT></EM></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG><EM><FONT size=4>Best
wishes,</FONT></EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG><EM><FONT
size=4></FONT></EM></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG><EM><FONT
size=4>Kevin</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR><STRONG>Ron]</STRONG><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
face=Arial>Thanks very much.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
face=Arial>Kevin</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rongretlarson@comcast.net href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net"
target=_blank>rongretlarson@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target=_blank>Discussion of
biomass cooking stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 16, 2013 11:02
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] New paper on
atmospheric Black Carbon</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Dean and
list:<BR><BR> Tami's is one huge report (232 pages
in a major journal sounds like a world record). I spent quite a few
hours today trying to grasp the topic - and know now I had better give
up. The Black Carbon problem is going to take experts like Tami to
bring its importance into the world of stoves. There may be an
argument that if a stove can prove $16/.tonne CO2, you might have a
chance at proving up to (or even more than?) $27/tonne CO2e, if you are in
the right place on the globe. (These numbers based on numbers given in
terms of W/sqm.) I recommend casual readers getting
quickly to the figures at the extreme end of the report/paper. There
is a lot of useful numercal geographic and sources comparisons
there.<BR><BR> As Crispin has indicated the intentional
large scale annual burning of large parts of Africa look like a good place
to instead harvest and get useful energy and biiochar instead (through
stoves and more).<BR><BR> Congratulations on arranging to
have Tami be the ETHOS key-noter. I think she may have been at
the first!<BR><BR>Ron<BR><BR>
<HR id=zwchr>
<B>From: </B>"Dean Still" <deankstill@gmail.com><BR><B>To:
</B>"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"
<stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><BR><B>Sent: </B>Wednesday, January
16, 2013 2:05:27 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: [Stoves] New paper on atmospheric
Black Carbon<BR><BR>Dear Friends,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Tami is the keynote speaker at ETHOS this year and it will be
interesting to hear what she's been learning!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>All Best,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Dean<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com"
target=_blank>crispinpigott@gmail.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV lang=EN-CA>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Dear Friends<U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>A new and I would say major major paper on the
atmospheric impact of black carbon particles is available for download. We
know at least two of the authors here on ‘Stoves’. Profs Tami Bond and
Philip Hopke (the aethalometer builder who said he was a minor
contributor) are frequent contributors on the subject of emissions
testing.<U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>The paper is important because it is the first really
detailed examination of the effects of atmospheric heating by Black Carbon
(BC). <U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>The abstract is at <SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><A
href="http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jgrd.50171/abstract"
target=_blank><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue">http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jgrd.50171/abstract</SPAN></A>
and the paper is at <U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><A
href="http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jgrd.50171/pdf"
target=_blank><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue">http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jgrd.50171/pdf</SPAN></A><U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">It is not behind
a paywall but it is large (40 MB). Times to get your hands dirty with
BC!<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Regards<SPAN
class=HOEnZb><FONT
color=#888888><U></U><U></U></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P><SPAN
class=HOEnZb><FONT color=#888888>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Crispin<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P
class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P></FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves
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<HR>
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