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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Jonathan,<br>
Its good to hear about the progress you have made. I can remember
your early missives to this list, was it a decade ago?<br>
A few questions... about the stove;<br>
<br>
At what moisture level (in the whole seed) do you see a drop off
in emissions performance when burned in the Jiko Safi?<br>
Is it easy for the users to tell when the seeds are dry enough?<br>
<br>
...about biofuel;<br>
Part of the idea was to provide electricity or shaft power to
communities or business with a Lister engine on Jatropha oil. <br>
I remember visiting Carl Bielenberg's workshop where he was doing
the testing. <br>
Any success stories there or is diesel always cheaper without a
carbon consideration?<br>
<br>
Alex<br>
<br>
<br>
On 20/01/2013 9:23 AM, Jonathan Otto wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:SNT137-W37A0FF482C8EF02CD58B9AD6100@phx.gbl"
type="cite">
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<div dir="ltr">
Hey Richard,<br>
<br>
Not sure why you feel my briquetting education has been
neglected, since that kind of fuel is not mentioned in any of my
postings; but I certainly subscribe to Dean's comment: we all
have a lot to learn about such alternative fuels. I would add:
and the stoves that burn them in a truly clean way. Which
brings up the question: if a briquette or pellet is burned in an
open charcoal brazier, do we have a clean energy source? To put
in another way, there are no 'clean' or 'dirty' fuels; it's
combination of fuel and stove that must be evaluated together
for emissions and other performance parameters. <br>
<br>
My densified fuels question to Otto the Senior or anyone else
who can enlighten me concerning the logic of pelletizing
Jatropha presscake. If farmers grow their
own energy-dense, uniform-sized fuel, i.e., whole Jatropha seed,
why complicate matters by processing that ready-to-use fuel into
another fuel? No matter how efficient the pelletizing process,
it must require time and energy. Why not burn these seeds
directly in a micro gasifier stove, such as our jiko safi? <br>
<br>
Let me try to head off some likely comments. I know that there
are companies in many African and Asian countries engaged in
commercial scale production of Jatropha (and other biofuel
crops) for export of biodeisel. Land grabbing and other
nefarious activities of some of these players are obscene, as
once again the global north exploits tropical countries for
cheap/free land and cheap labor to meet its own needs. <br>
<br>
Yes, those Jatropha oil export ventures produce presscake as a
by-product which they pelletize and market for fuel. And yes,
some smaller operations in a few countries like Uganda, are
trying to make a go of producing Jatropha-based biofuels for
local and regional energy markets. But for all the publicity,
most of it appropriately negative, in the 'food vs. fuel'
analysis, there's a lot more to Jatropha than current attempts
to put the oil in European cars and jet engines.<br>
<br>
Far apart from all these recent commercial Jatropha ventures,
many of which are unprofitable for reasons we can discuss
another time if anyone's interested, are many millions of
farmers in over 110 countries who use Jatropha as a living hedge
and for medicianl uses. Seems it's grown in every frost-free
area of the world. I've found it from Cuba -- it's native to the
neo-tropics -- to Mali, which has thousands of kilometers of
hedges, to Bhutan where villagers were obliged to pay a Jatropha
tax to monks for lighting in floating wick lamps. <br>
<br>
My guess is that over 99% of all Jatropha seed fall to the
ground and rot, unused. (One study in a district of Tanzania
where Jatropha seed is a traded commodity found that only 6% of
seed is harvested.) As we all search for renewable, sustainably
harvested biomass to fuel our favorite stoves, can we afford to
overlook seeds of this ubiquitous, multi-use species? <br>
<br>
The point of importuning my stove list colleagues on a fine
Sunday morning is to interest other stove makers to look at
Jatropha and other energy-rich seeds as a category of fuel worth
consideration for new stove designs. We are modestly pleased
with the performance of the jiko safi, but we also know that
some of you with far deeper understanding of gasification and
far more experience in stove design could produce a much better
model. Anyone want to take up this challenge?<br>
<br>
Over to you,<br>
<br>
Jonathan<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>
<hr id="stopSpelling">
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rstanley@legacyfound.org">rstanley@legacyfound.org</a><br>
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 20:46:53 -0600<br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel?<br>
<br>
<div>Dear Ottos,</div>
<div>Seems you both need training in briquettemaking . Jon you
know where to go in nchi yeti but Otto, where are you based?
Seriously, the blends you are finding smelly smokey etc
suggests that you get in touch with any of hundreds of
others who can train you. </div>
<div>Richard Stanley</div>
<div>Monte Rico,</div>
<div>Guatemala<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div><br>
On Jan 19, 2013, at 18:10, Otto Formo <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:terra-matricula@hotmail.com">terra-matricula@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Josh and Jonathan (Otto),
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yes, we are talking about the presscake of Jatropha
and it was processed into pellets localy in Zambia,
quite easily and with "simple" tools - (no waste of
energy)</div>
<div><br>
We had the same experience as your colleagues using
briquettes made out of ricehusks and sawdust.</div>
<div>They even started to glow like charcoal early in
the gasification process and produced smoky and
smouldery combustion.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thast why we prefer to use pellets of best possible
quality. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I hope you are correct about<span style="FONT-SIZE:
10pt"> the gasification of jatropha pellets will
destroy the phorbol esters and other problematic
compounds instead of emitting them.</span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Iam a bit worried
about the forced draft units, while they seems to
blow some parts of the ash and gases into the open
air or room.</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>May be the char from Jatropha could have a
pestecide effect as well?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Otto<br>
<div>
<hr id="ecxstopSpelling">
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 18:23:35 -0500<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:yeah.yeah.right.on@gmail.com">yeah.yeah.right.on@gmail.com</a><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel?<br>
<br>
Otto - FYI jatropha presscake (the mealy material
left over once oil has been pressed out of the
seeds) can be directly pelletized without further
processing. It's pretty easy to pelletize, even with
a small, cheaper (e.g. benchtop) pellet press. The
mealy presscake still contains some of the oil
(think coffee grounds) and it pelletizes well
without worry over moisture content or having to use
a binder.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The pellets burn in a TLUD similar to wood or
other pellets, at least by visual observation and
temperature recording. I have colleagues that have
tried to make cooking briquettes with jatropha
seedcake and had a very smoky, smouldery
combustion. I believe there are concerns of some
potentially toxic emissions (phorbol esters, other
compounds?). I have not tested the emissions from
TLUD charring jatropha pellets, but there was no
visible smoke and the gasifier seemed to operate
fine as it does with other types of pellets. It
would be interesting to know if firing jatropha
pellets in a TLUD destroys the phorbol esters and
other problematic compounds instead of emitting
them.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I first tried to char un-pelletized jatropha
seedcake in the TLUD - because it is mealy like
coffee grounds no draft could get through and it
was a total fail - lots of smoke poured out! This
brought the fire department to our Colorado
backyard during a fire ban. Whoops.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also FYI char made from TLUD jatropha pellets
performed similar for herbicide uptake from
simulated natural water as chars made in the same
way from pine pellets, bagasse pellets, and bamboo
pieces.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Josh</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Sat, Jan 19, 2013
at 12:29 PM, Jonathan Otto <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ottojonathan@hotmail.com">ottojonathan@hotmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid;
PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="ecxgmail_quote">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><font size="3"
face="Calibri">Otto,</font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><font size="3"
face="Calibri">Whole Jatropha seeds
can be picked from hedges on-farm and
used directly in our jiko safi
gasification stove without any further
effort (except maybe for some sun
drying if harvested during a damp
season) … the most decentralized,
efficient sustainable fuel system I
can imagine.</font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><font size="3"
face="Calibri">Sure, urban jiko safi
users will need to buy their fuel
seeds, so a commercial system for
transport and retail sale of seed will
be needed eventually, likely mimicking
some aspects of the charcoal trade.
But it’s just whole, unprocessed seed.</font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><font size="3"
face="Calibri">Concerning pelletized
Jatropha fuel, I would like to
understand the advantages you find in
going through the costs and effort
(including energy losses) of
processing seeds to expel the oil,
then probably milling the press cake
and shells (?) to uniform
size/texture, then extruding or
otherwise forming the mixture into
pellets, and finally distribute the
fuel, some of which will go back to
the same farmers that grew the
Jatropha seed in the first place?</font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><font size="3"><font
face="Calibri">I know there are
technical advantages to gasification
of uniform-sized pellets, but it
seems to me that round or ovoid
shaped seeds like Jatropha, castor
(I know, more poisons!), shea or <span>croton
megalocarpus provide this same
advantage, without going through
the pelletization process.<span>
</span>What am I missing?</span></font></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span></span> </p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span><font
size="3" face="Calibri">Otto, the
minor</font></span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span></span> </p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span><font
size="3" face="Calibri">P.S. It's
too late for me to retire 'on time'</font></span></p>
<div>
<div class="ecxim">
<hr>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:terra-matricula@hotmail.com">terra-matricula@hotmail.com</a><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
</div>
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:23:37 +0100
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit
as fuel?<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Jonathan,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We have got some samples of
pelletized jatropha shells and
seeds from Zambia, after the oil
has been extracted and we feel
that is the way forward.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We will update you on the
progress, so you will be albe to
retire "on
time".................:)<br>
We are not so worried about PM
in natural draft gasifiers, but
thanks for the concern.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Otto........................<br>
<div>
<hr>
From: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ottojonathan@hotmail.com">ottojonathan@hotmail.com</a><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013
09:03:35 -0500<br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha
fruit as fuel?<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Otto-<br>
<br>
You 'would guess' wrong. <br>
<br>
'We should be very careful
advising people' about such
unsupported conclusions.<br>
<br>
The challenges of gasifying
oils found in seeds, notably
the oils of Jatropha seed,
in a cookstove are far
different from working with
most pellets formulations. <br>
<br>
I keenly look forward to
news of your all-fuel stoves
that will handle J
seeds, and the results of
your tests. I sincerely hope
you develop this soon, so I
can finally retire in peace.<br>
<br>
Oh, and when you do tests,
please include particulates
in your emissions testing,
so we can finally end all
this hand wringing about
'these types of fuel'.<br>
<br>
>From the cheeky other
Otto,<br>
<br>
Jonathan <br>
<div>
<hr>
From: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:terra-matricula@hotmail.com">terra-matricula@hotmail.com</a><br>
To: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013
23:23:48 +0100<br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves]
Jatropha fruit as fuel?<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Dear
stovers,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would guess that
"any" gasifier will
burn jatropha seeds or
pellets cleanly and
efficient, as long as
the moisture content
are less than 10%.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We have in the
pipeline to test a new
design of natural
draft gasifiers, using
jatropha seeds and
pellets, for
emmissions and toxcic
fumes.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We should be very
carefull adviceing
people using these
types of fuel, before
it has been carefully
tested by independent
institutions.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Have a nice
weekend.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Otto (not the
famous one..........:)<br>
<br>
<div>
<hr>
From: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com">crispinpigott@gmail.com</a><br>
To: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
Date: Fri, 18 Jan
2013 10:19:11 -0500<br>
Subject: Re:
[Stoves] Jatropha
fruit as fuel?<br>
<br>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif';
COLOR: #1f497d;
FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Dear
Jonathan</span><br>
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif';
COLOR: #1f497d;
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </span><br>
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif';
COLOR: #1f497d;
FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I
am interested in
the general
layout and
dimensions of a
stove that will
burn the seeds
well. Are you
sharing at this
time anything
regarding the
design?</span><br>
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif';
COLOR: #1f497d;
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </span><br>
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif';
COLOR: #1f497d;
FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Thanks<br>
Crispin</span><br>
<div>
<div
style="BORDER-BOTTOM:
medium none;
BORDER-LEFT:
medium none;
PADDING-BOTTOM:
0mm;
PADDING-LEFT:
0mm;
PADDING-RIGHT:
0mm;
BORDER-TOP:
#b5c4df 1pt
solid;
BORDER-RIGHT:
medium none;
PADDING-TOP:
3pt"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif';
COLOR:
#1f497d;
FONT-SIZE:
11pt">++++++++</span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Tahoma','sans-serif';
FONT-SIZE:
10pt"
lang="EN-US"></span><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Tahoma','sans-serif';
FONT-SIZE:
10pt">Dear
Joyce and
stovers all,<br>
<br>
My regrets for
not responding
to this
request 6
months ago.
I admit that
it got lost in
my messy inbox
which I have
now reduced
from 6000
messages to a
mere 2400, and
in the process
uncovered Joyce's
email.<br>
<br>
Burning
Jatropha seeds
whole or in
briquettes in
open cooking
arrangements
is a bad
idea. It
produces a
smoky, smelly
fire and
probably
exposes cooks
to toxic
emissions. I
even question
burning
Jatropha oil
in lamps in
enclosed areas
for the same
reason. Maybe
others know of
emissions
studies.<br>
<span
style="COLOR:
#1f497d">[snip]</span></span><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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</blockquote>
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<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
Josh Kearns<br>
PhD Candidate, Environmental Engineering<br>
University of Colorado-Boulder
<div>Visiting Researcher, North Carolina State
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<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
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_______________________________________________ Stoves mailing
list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your
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for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a>
</pre>
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