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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Cecil,<br>
Don't I know it. I built the ultimate pellet heating and cooking
stove while living with its ultimate users. The design rocks,
perfect combustion, no moving parts, no electricity required,
cooking surface low to the ground, just like I see in all the
pictures. Do you think my wife will use it? Next time..... I'll
have to talk to her about it .... first.<br>
<br>
Cheers:)<br>
<br>
Isolated Alex<br>
<br>
PS. .....maybe it doesn't produce enough char.....<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 22/01/2013 4:49 AM, Cecil Cook wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CA+1hLhaYtynCBdnjq+AWOeYF=TjfAU-J8HAgWDo82i+kKVZGgQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">Dear
Pual, Kevin, Crispin, Marc, and kindred stovers,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">I am a
much backslid applied anthropologists who took a 30 year
side trip into
appropriate technology in South Africa at the instigation
of Crispin. Now
a days Crispin is still misleading me by asking me to
assist him and the World
Bank design, test, produce, and market ever more perfect
low cost biomass
stoves in places like Ulaanbataar in Mongolia, Yogyakarta
in Java, and
most recently Battambang in Cambodia. With fiendish
friends like Crispin,
who needs enemies?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">Kevin's
comic stories about the idiot savant who is very good at
drawing circles around
bullet holes is unfortunately a hilarious metaphor for the
multiple problems
and predicaments that stove scientists, inventors and
enthusiasts typically
create for themselves when they (we?) try to innovate ever
more perfect biomass
burning stoves for imagined and therefore voiceless stove
customers. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">I
recently discovered there is a significant market in
Central Java for big
portable charcoal stoves so that neighbours can come
together to prepare food
in a sequence of 7 memorials for deceased family members
(the last feast or
party comes 1000 days after a loved one dies). As an act
of
solidarity, families, neighbours and friends get together
outside in courtyards
and alleyways to cook big pots of food that is eaten by
the living in honour of
the recently deceased. I have not observed one of these
memorial services
but many families in the city informed me they have a big
charcoal or wood
burning stove that mainly gets used for these parties for
the dead and for
weddings, or by small food vendors who prepare food for
sale to passersby or
also by caterers and in the kitchens of restaurants ...
otherwise these big
stoves are simply stored in a corner. Families estimated
they use their
big stoves about one to two times a month. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">It would
theoretically be possible to figure out what percentage of
the biomass fuels
entering the urban economy of Yogyakarta city in Central
Java are devoted to
staying on good terms of with spirits of the deceased and
the in-laws.
Who but an inquisitive anthropologist would bother to
isolate large
portable biomass stoves used for these important social
ceremonies to
memorialize the dead and celebrate weddings as a potential
market segment of
the stove buying public that needs be studied, understood,
and perhaps is
important enough to merit the design of a biomass stove
that meets their
socio-economic needs.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">In the
case of cooking for the dead and the in-laws, we are
talking here about
millions of biomass stoves that are mostly, but not
exclusively, used for big
social ceremonies in Indonesia where there are perhaps a
100 million biomass
stoves in used with a replacement rate of perhaps 100
million stoves a year at
a cost of $1 to $2 each which is the going market value of
a traditional
artisan made stove). The traditional stove economy of
Indonesia is vast
and highly differentiated between a number of different -
somewhat specialized
- market segments with different needs, interests and
amounts of money to
spend.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">The
informal approach that Crispin and I have used for many
years is for us to
spend a day or two together with a typical low income
family and go through a
cooking day together. While Crispin is focused on stoves,
the pots used,
the sequencing of tasks and cooking cycles, I take time to
walk around the
village or neighbourhood meeting the fuel sellers and
stove vendors in the
nearby markets to get an idea about the stove and fuel
supply chains, the mark
ups added to the retail value by the time a stove or 1 kg
bag or charcoal or a
small bundle of wood is purchased by a low income
household. One thing we
have discovered in Malawi, DRC, Mozambique, Zambia, and
now Mongolia,
Indonesia, and Cambodia that the bottom 1/3 to 1/2 of
these households survive
on tiny daily cash flows of less than a couple of dollars.
The difference
in cost between a $1 to $2 stove and a $4 stove is huge.
Think about your
response to a doubling of the cost of any big ticket
durable consumer item that
you have come to depend on in your daily life like a car,
or refrigerator or a
gas stove!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">What
normally happens when Crispin and I come face to face with
the social and
economic reality of an urban or village household is that
Crispin's inventive
mind is stimulated when it confronts the 'otherness' of a
particular culture of
stove-fuel use which includes the traditional ways that
people, both men and
women, operate their stoves and combine different types of
biomass fuels to get
the performances they want from their stoves. They know a
lot about economizing
scarce fuels when they are running out of money and/or
fuel. He can’t help
himself. Crispin has an uncontrollable urge to innovate
improvement in stove products
as he encounters them in their cultural contexts. This
same process
continues when Crispin sits down with a traditional stove
maker and comes to
terms with his knowhow and his or her technical, resource
and financial
constraints. It is human, engaged, and face to face!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">This is
beginning of a real, culturally contextualized AT design
process: Crispin as
stove scientist is challenged by me and indigenous stove
users and stove makers
to reconfigure himself into a practical engineer who
accepts responsibility for
converting his universal knowledge about combustion, heat
transfer, and biomass
energy into forms that will be understood and used by a
semi-literate and
pre-scientific artisan stove maker. The blessing of AT is
the
democratization of the power and the benefits of an
increasingly planetary
system of science and technology that comes about when we
succeed in translating
this S&T into de-mystified forms that can be
understood and creatively applied
by artisan stove makers, who know how to produce a very
cheap $1 to $2 stove
(which the stove scientist does not know how to pull
off!). But, the indigenous stove producer does not
know much about PM, the role of primary and secondary air
flows and finding the
right balance, how to get the right amount of Excess Air
flowing through a
stove, and how to maximize heat transfer between the fire
and the pot.
Crispin needs to learn from the indigenous stove makers
how he earns a
living making his traditional stove for 1 to 2 dollars and
in that way dominates
the stove market and how the household stove users
operates a traditional stove
to get the performance wanted out of it. It is Crispin’s
and mostly my job as a
stove anthropologist to learn enough so that we can read
and begin operating
within the cultural (ethno-science), behavioural and
organizational system of
traditional stoves and therefore figure out where the best
places are to begin
introducing changes into the traditional
operator-stove-stove maker/vendor-fuel
producer economy. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">I agree
totally with you that idiot stove scientists are drawing
circles around their
shots into the dark unknown of the traditional
operator-stove-fuel economy.
If we continue to privilege the stove scientist and the
imagined brave
new stoves he hopes will liberate humanity from pollution
(PM), asthma,
and the daily grind of gathering firewood, and persist in
using his
western style 'ethno-science' to test the performance of
‘improved’ stoves to
identify the best performers by his stove science centered
criteria we will
simply continue to fail in our mission to bring the
multiple benefits of
science to the villagers and urban survivalists struggling
at the Bottom of the
Pryamid This approach is hopelessly techno-centric and
technocratic in
perspective and ultimately doomed to failure because
justifies the imposition
by the World Bank and USAID and well meaning national
government of improved
stoves costing $10 to $30 each on villagers and urban
residents who survive on
less than $1 per person per day.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">We can do
better, much better than this, and I believe that Crispin
and I have done and
continue to do better by helping stove scientists enter
the mind and heart of
indigenous stove users and producers and discovering how
to
practically empower stove producers with a fundamental
grasp of the applied
science of high performance stoves. When
that happens, indigenous stove producers and vendors gain
the practical
knowledge they need to produce a much improved $3 or $4
stove. A stove that costs two times more than the
industry standard is still within the reach of most stove
buyers the world over. A Chinese manufactured StoveTec
rocket stove
that sells for about $30 here in South Africa is
ridiculously out of reach to
local users of biomass stove, including the three stoned
fire. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">The last
point I will share before I totter and totally fall off my
soap box is that we
must develop our stove performance testing protocols
around the culturally and
economically appropriate performance criteria that
presently guide the behaviours
and economic choices of stove buyers in particular market
segments. It is also necessity to penetrate the
cultural, social and economic worlds of the stove makers
and stove vendors to
full understand why the existing
stove-fuel economy is dominated by $1 to $2 stoves and how
these value chains
operate. The traditional operator-stove-fuel system must
be allowed to sit in
judgement of the mad hatter stove designer who are
beginning to control of
hundreds of millions of development funds for the
improvement of traditional
stoves... not the reverse. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">When it
is possible for stove scientists - who passionately debate
on the bio-energy
discussion list - to innovate Improved Stoves with
superior emissions and
system efficiency performances that only cost $3 to $4
biomass and that
continue to meet all of the critical socio-cultural
performance requirements of
the existing traditional stove then I will be doing back
flips with Father
William to celebrate their accomplishments.
As an engineer shy anthropologist who has waited patiently
off stage for
the stove scientists and hardware experts to recognize the
short coming of the technology
centered approach, I am eager to participate with them to
create an inclusive multi-disciplinary
and multi-stakeholder approach to the in situ design and
development of improved
stoves.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">I am
eager to take my hat off and salute stove scientists and
engineers for
rededicating themselves to the transcendental objectives
of humanity
serving appropriate science and technology: what did
Fuller call it? Ah yes, I
remember, it is his more-for-less principle which enables
a mature technology
to become ever more spirit like. Bucky called it the
'ephemeralization'
of science whereby a mature technology requires less and
less energy and
material to perform a given function like computing,
communicating, or cooking. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">May I
recommend that stovers take a good look at what
Geres/Cambodia has accomplished
to date over 16 years with a stove improvement strategy
that concentrates on
gradually improving the designs, materials, and production
methods of the
producers and distributional methods of the vendors of
traditional stoves, and
not on the primary stove buyer, the stove technology
itself,
and certainly not the stove scientists. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif";color:#222222;background:white">Here
is the url <</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.geres.eu/en/studies/122-publi-etude-nls"
target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155cc">http://www.geres.eu/en/studies/122-publi-etude-nls</span></a><span
style="color:#222222;background:white">> for an
important review of the
process that Geres went through in its capacity as a
facilitator of baseline
research and institution builder that transformed the
traditional Lao bucket
charcoal burning stove into the 'new Lao' improved
cookstove which is today
produced and distributed by 35 small stove making
enterprises who between them
produce and sell more than 25 000 NL stoves every month.
There are many
useful lessons in this</span><span style="color:#222222"> <i>in
situ</i><span style="background:white"> stove
development strategy which the Geres team
systematically followed in Cambodia. They decided to
maximize the use of
the the:</span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst" style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt 54pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif";color:#222222">1.<span
style="font-size:7pt;font-family:'Times New Roman'">
</span></span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif";color:#222222">traditional
stove technologies, </span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt
54pt;background-color:white;background-repeat:initial
initial"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif";color:#222222">2.<span
style="font-size:7pt;font-family:'Times New Roman'">
</span></span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif";color:#222222">stove
operating skills and knowledge base of particular groups
of stove
users,</span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt
54pt;background-color:white;background-repeat:initial
initial"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif";color:#222222">3.<span
style="font-size:7pt;font-family:'Times New Roman'">
</span></span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif";color:#222222">indigenous
know how and business of producers of the traditional Lao
stove, and</span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="margin-left:54pt;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background-color:white;background-repeat:initial
initial"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif";color:#222222">4.<span
style="font-size:7pt;font-family:'Times New Roman'">
</span></span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif";color:#222222">existing
network of wholesalers and retailers of stoves.</span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpLast"
style="margin-left:54pt;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background-color:white;background-repeat:initial
initial"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif";color:#222222"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background-color:white;background-repeat:initial
initial"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif";color:#222222">They have
also minimized any disruption to this pre-existing
traditional
system of producing, distributing and selling the Lao
bucket charcoal stove by
incrementally improving the design, materials, production,
training, and
distribution of the various 'traditional' role players in
the
stove+operator+producer+vendor+fuel supply chain economy.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background-color:white;background-repeat:initial
initial"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif";color:#222222"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background-color:white;background-repeat:initial
initial"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif";color:#222222">I think we
stove scientists, social science facilitators, funding
agents, and development policy makers, stove producers,
etc. need to carefully
assess the relevance of the Geres Improved Cookstove
Program for how to
incrementally develop improved 'traditional' stoves that
are able to compete
with $1 to $2 stoves that dominate the stove markets of
most
developing countries. </span><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background-color:white;background-repeat:initial
initial"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif";color:#222222"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background-color:white;background-repeat:initial
initial"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif";color:#222222">It may also
useful to review the Genes led Global Stove Program <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.geres.eu/en/geres-cambodia"
target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155cc">http://www.geres.eu/en/geres-cambodia</span></a>>
which
lays out a 5 year strategy to share the lessons learned by
the Cambodian
Improved Cookstove Program with other national stove
initiatives in SEAsia and
French speaking West Africa. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Times
New Roman","serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Times
New Roman","serif"">In service,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Times
New Roman","serif"">Cecil Cook</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Times
New Roman","serif"">TechnoShare</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Times
New Roman","serif"">South Africa</span></p>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 2:41 AM, Kevin
<span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net" target="_blank">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<div><font face="Arial">Dear Paul</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Once upon a time, a Traveller was
driving along through a rural District. He noticed
that most stop signs, Billboards, Barn Doors, etc were
shot full of bullet holes, but that the bullet holes
were in the exact center of every circle! He was
amazed at the shooting accuracy, and stopped at the
local Barber Shop to find out the identity of the
Marksman. When he inquired of the Barber, the Barber
replied:</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">"That's the Village Idiot. He
shoots first and draws the circle after."</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">This silly little story contains
an important lesson: </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">"When wishing to develop
a new product, first find what The Market wants, and
then build The Product around it."</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">The Patent Literature abounds with
brilliant solutions to problems that the World does
not want solved. They "help the Little Old Lady to
cross the street, when she does not want to cross the
street." Many of the Inventors of such products end up
broke and disillusioned. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">As it relates to stoves, what does
Fatima in Egypt, Michelle in Haiti, Joe Pattagoniak's
Wife in an Inuktatuck Igloo or Mohammed's Wife in a
Grass Hut in Timbuktu want in a stove? Obviously,
different stoves are required for different
applications. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">So, we can configure clever stoves
that turn our creative cranks and are fun to make, and
we can develop our own testing procedures that show
how clever our clever stoves are, and with such
carefully structured tests, we can prove that "My
clever stove is more clever than your clever stove."
How does that tie in with what Fatima et al, AKA "The
Market", wants? </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">If the test is based on the time
to boil a covered pot, but the Customer uses an
uncovered pot... fail. If the Customer uses a covered
pot, but the test uses an open pot... fail. If the
Customer wants heat loss to the living space, and the
test penalizes stove shell loss... fail. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Some forms of "Improved Stove"
represent the kind of progress one gets when one moves
the outhouse closer to the back door in the Winter,
and further away in the summer. We can build a stove
venting into the living space that has "an 80%
reduction in CO, Tars, BC, and ash emissions" and call
it an "Improved stove." Such stoves will kill people
living in Homes built to First World standards.
Certainly, there are Markets for which such stoves are
appropriate, but when tests are structured to require
ALL stoves to meet the requirements of a small section
of the total stove market, then progress in the
remainder of the</font><font face="Arial"> Market is
seriously retarded.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">A stove producing char is fabulous
when the Customer wants char, but when the Customer
does not want char, it is a fail. A stove that boils
water quickly is great if one wants to sterilize
water, but it is a fail if the Customer wants to bake
bread, or to simmer a stew for 2 hours without having
to attend the stove every 10-15 minutes. What is the
purpose of a "Stove"? What does the Customer want it
to do? Perhaps the Customer wants an "Improved 3 stone
fire that burns 5/7 as much wood, so that she doesn't
have to find wood on the weekend? The main
requirements of a stove are:</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">1: It cooks food and/or heats the
living space</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">2: It is fuel efficient.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">3: Products of combustion do not
harm the Occupants of the living space.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Why aren't stoves rated on the
basis of:</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">1: ... grams of fuel to cook the
food or foods for which the stove was designed?</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">2: ... stove heat loss to the
living space?</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">3: ... whether or not the level of
products of combustion within the living space were
acceptable or not.</font> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Certainly, other "stove factors"
are important, such as initial cost, life, expected
life, etc, but dealing with the above factors in a way
that was meaningful to the Customer would certainly be
helpful. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">There is a Classic Story about the
Drunk crawling along in the gutter one night, under a
streetlight. </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">The Cop asks "What are you doing"?
</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">Drunk says: "I lost my cell phone
and am looking for it." </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">Cop asks: "Where did you lose it?"</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">Drunk says: "On the other side of
the street."</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">Cop asks: "Why are you looking
here?"</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">Drunk says: "Because there is more
light here."</font> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">I see interesting parallels in
stove testing... the tests seem to be set up to give
results that are easy to attain in "The Lab", but
which are not necessarily reflective of conditions
that are important to the Customer in "The Field".</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">In theory, it is very easy to get
Grant Money... all the Applicant has to do is show the
Donor that he is the best person to do what the Donor
wants done. If a Donor favours a particular
Technology, then that particular technology gets
favoured. If the Donor favours a business at a
particular state of development, then that is the
"business state" that will be favoured. Donors don't
so much support a given technology, or a state of
business development, but rather, they support a
"total situation that is most likely to get done what
the donor wants done." Clearly, if the Donor wants
"Job ABC" done, and the Applicant is superb at "Job
XYZ", then the Applicant will not get funded. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Best wishes,</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Kevin</font></div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px
solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">
<div>
<div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message
----- </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b>From:</b>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="psanders@ilstu.edu"
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">Paul
Anderson</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="wastemin1@verizon.net"
href="mailto:wastemin1@verizon.net"
target="_blank">Hugh McLaughlin</a> ; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="solarbobky@yahoo.com"
href="mailto:solarbobky@yahoo.com"
target="_blank">Bob Fairchild</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Monday,
January 21, 2013 9:51 AM</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b>
[Stoves] Example of missed opportunities was Re:
is this new?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Crispin and all,<br>
<br>
Good comments by Alex and Marc and Crispin are
below about air flows in TLUDs.<br>
<br>
All should note that Paal Wendelbo's Peko Pe TLUD
has had some side-holes in the fuel chamber wall
for 2 decades. Not as much "early secondary air"
as Crispin's Vesto. And Paul Wever has them in
his "stove pipe stove". <br>
<br>
My experiments with them were not conclusive about
any advantage, so I have opted to not use them,
partly to have less work in fabrication (no extra
holes to make) and partly because the entering air
enters as PRIMARY AIR when the fuel bed is above
the level of each hole, which translates into less
control. I will probably re-visit this topic
when time and funds permit.<br>
<br>
MAIN POINT: This is a great example of missed
opportunities because there has never been
seriously funded research on the multitude of
controllable variables in TLUD stoves!!! We can
see the possible variations. But we cannot prove
them one way or the other simply by funding them
out of the pocketbooks of Paal, Paul, Crispin and
others. YEARS AGO we should have resolved the
issues of the Vesto stove being operated as a
TLUD, or as a different type of stove. The Peko
Pe features should be better understood. As
should the issues of Nurhuda's stove, and
Belonio's, and Anderson's and others. Even people
who have resisted TLUD technology for years are
becoming involved and still there is nearly zero
coordination. And any financial support seems to
be by-passing the people with experience with
micro-gasifiers, and instead is seeking isolated
academic modelling that (I suspect) will take
years to have academic results. So be it, but
let's also give some funds to the practitioners. <br>
<br>
<u>With all due respect</u> for the need for
proper "technology neutral" distribution of
funding, I am getting very tired of "technology
neutral" that gives equal (or more) weight to
giving money (big money) to "business-ready"
operations that can start cranking out stoves to
be counted toward the 100 million by 2020.
Instead, the leading technology for lowest
emissions from solid-fuel cookstoves is TLUD (and
other micro-gasification), and it is not yet
getting BASIC support that is needed. <br>
<br>
This is how it looks from my vantage point. I
hope that the above is a "reasoned statement", not
a "rant." And I am forever an optimist and have
hopes that the situation will improve.<br>
<br>
I look forward to seeing many of you at ETHOS in
Seattle and/or at the GACC Forum in Cambodia.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
*************<br>
Alex English wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Crispin,<br>
Its been a while since I saw the Vesto. It looks
from the pictures like there are secondary air
holes all the way up the central tube. Is that
current?<br>
Seems like the top rows would just be adding
tramp air (unemployed air).<br>
<br>
Alex<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a>
Website: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 1/20/2013 9:06 PM, Marc Pare wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">That cutaway is beautiful!
Great example of "let the product speak for
itself"
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Since seeing counterflow in action, I
understand exactly what you're describing with
the air flows. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I didn't understand your emphasis on keeping
the flame near the bed with a "descending
burner" until this paragraph:
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-BOTTOM:medium
none;BORDER-LEFT:medium
none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px
40px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;BORDER-TOP:medium
none;BORDER-RIGHT:medium
none;PADDING-TOP:0px">
<div><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">The
secondary air is send across the surface
to keep a deck of flame going at the
height of the holes. This obviates the
need for adding a circular disk at the
top to ’keep the flame going’. Adding a
‘concentrator’ as Paul calls it takes
more material and moves the fire too far
away from the heat of the pyrolysis bed
leading to unwanted flame-outs from time
to time. </span></div>
</blockquote>
<div><br clear="all">
<div>I've seen these instabilities quite
often in small-scale pyrolyzers. Great to
see a practical measure to prevent their
tendency to "smoke bomb".</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What's on the "to-do" list for this
class of design, Crispin? Are you looking
to push it into other applications? Apply
the principles to improve existing design?
(like you mentioned with advancing the
Anglo SupraNova)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Marc Paré<br>
B.S. Mechanical Engineering<br>
Georgia Institute of Technology |
Université de Technologie de Compiègne<br>
<br>
my cv, etc. | <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://notwandering.com"
target="_blank">http://notwandering.com</a></div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 21,
2013 at 9:42 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
<span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com"
target="_blank">crispinpigott@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px
solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex"
class="gmail_quote">
<div vlink="purple" link="blue"
lang="EN-CA">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Dear
Marc and Ron and All interested
in air flows</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">This
is a response to questions about
air and Marc’s tube.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Here
is an old photo of secondary air
entering the combustion chamber
of a Vesto pushing the flame to
the centre. This accomplishes
the following:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Keeps
the fire away from the wall,
reducing the temperature it has
to survive (a lot)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Keeps
the flame going</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Not
allowing it to spread to one
side away from the smoke on the
other side that might otherwise
‘get away’.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Provides
turbulent mixing of flame, hot
secondary air and smoke</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Allows
for preheating to a significant
degree (250-500 C)</span><br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
See Crispin's message at the Stoves Listserv
archives.<br>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<hr>
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