<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><b>All,<br>
        <br>
        Quick </b>reply as I rush to the airport to go to Uganda for 3
      weeks:<br>
      <br>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The

            concept that throws people off is that of ‘fixed carbon’ as
            if there was some carbon in the fuel that will not pyrolyse.
            Even if there was, it is not a measure of the total carbon
            in a fuel.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">So

          the lower temperature pyrolysis does not only increase the
          amount of volatiles, and it is also not only the carbon in
          those volatiles that may or may not be missing. </span></blockquote>
      1.  As far as I know, there is no "fixed carbon" in the biomass.  
      It is fixed during the process of carbonization/pyrolysis.<br>
      <br>
      2.  Some biomass such as seeds have "oils" that vaporize or are
      volatile.   They are generally not pyrolyzed.   However, the
      lignin and other "stuff" in biomass is what is pyrolyzed and gives
      off pyrolytic gases that are volatile.   At low temperatures, the
      future volatiles are not yet in a form that can be called
      volatile.   But they will volatize when subjected to higher
      temperatures.<br>
      <br>
      I will accept what the chemist eventually clarify for us.<br>
      <br>
      Paul<br>
      <br>
      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD  aka "Dr TLUD"
Email:  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>   Skype: paultlud  Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
      On 2/5/2013 8:17 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:08a101ce03ab$82d8f2b0$888ad810$@gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=ISO-8859-1">
      <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered
        medium)">
      <!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]-->
      <style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
        {font-family:Wingdings;
        panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
        {font-family:Wingdings;
        panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
        {font-family:Calibri;
        panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
        {font-family:Consolas;
        panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
        {font-family:Tahoma;
        panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
        {font-family:Verdana;
        panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
        {margin:0mm;
        margin-bottom:.0001pt;
        font-size:12.0pt;
        font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
        color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
        {mso-style-priority:99;
        color:blue;
        text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
        {mso-style-priority:99;
        color:purple;
        text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoPlainText, li.MsoPlainText, div.MsoPlainText
        {mso-style-priority:99;
        mso-style-link:"Plain Text Char";
        margin:0mm;
        margin-bottom:.0001pt;
        font-size:10.5pt;
        font-family:Consolas;
        color:black;}
p
        {mso-style-priority:99;
        mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
        margin-right:0mm;
        mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
        margin-left:0mm;
        font-size:12.0pt;
        font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
        color:black;}
code
        {mso-style-priority:99;
        font-family:"Courier New";}
pre
        {mso-style-priority:99;
        mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
        margin:0mm;
        margin-bottom:.0001pt;
        font-size:10.0pt;
        font-family:"Courier New";
        color:black;}
tt
        {mso-style-priority:99;
        font-family:"Courier New";}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
        {mso-style-priority:99;
        mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
        margin:0mm;
        margin-bottom:.0001pt;
        font-size:8.0pt;
        font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
        color:black;}
p.MsoNoSpacing, li.MsoNoSpacing, div.MsoNoSpacing
        {mso-style-priority:1;
        margin-top:5.0pt;
        margin-right:0mm;
        margin-bottom:5.0pt;
        margin-left:0mm;
        mso-add-space:auto;
        font-size:11.0pt;
        font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
        color:#1F497D;}
p.MsoNoSpacingCxSpFirst, li.MsoNoSpacingCxSpFirst, div.MsoNoSpacingCxSpFirst
        {mso-style-priority:1;
        mso-style-type:export-only;
        margin-top:5.0pt;
        margin-right:0mm;
        margin-bottom:0mm;
        margin-left:0mm;
        margin-bottom:.0001pt;
        mso-add-space:auto;
        font-size:11.0pt;
        font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
        color:#1F497D;}
p.MsoNoSpacingCxSpMiddle, li.MsoNoSpacingCxSpMiddle, div.MsoNoSpacingCxSpMiddle
        {mso-style-priority:1;
        mso-style-type:export-only;
        margin:0mm;
        margin-bottom:.0001pt;
        mso-add-space:auto;
        font-size:11.0pt;
        font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
        color:#1F497D;}
p.MsoNoSpacingCxSpLast, li.MsoNoSpacingCxSpLast, div.MsoNoSpacingCxSpLast
        {mso-style-priority:1;
        mso-style-type:export-only;
        margin-top:0mm;
        margin-right:0mm;
        margin-bottom:5.0pt;
        margin-left:0mm;
        mso-add-space:auto;
        font-size:11.0pt;
        font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
        color:#1F497D;}
span.PlainTextChar
        {mso-style-name:"Plain Text Char";
        mso-style-priority:99;
        mso-style-link:"Plain Text";
        font-family:Consolas;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
        {mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
        mso-style-priority:99;
        mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
        font-family:Consolas;
        color:black;}
span.yiv283229397cat
        {mso-style-name:yiv283229397cat;}
span.yiv283229397ct
        {mso-style-name:yiv283229397ct;}
p.yiv283229397attach, li.yiv283229397attach, div.yiv283229397attach
        {mso-style-name:yiv283229397attach;
        mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
        margin-right:0mm;
        mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
        margin-left:0mm;
        font-size:12.0pt;
        font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
        color:black;}
p.yiv283229397bold, li.yiv283229397bold, div.yiv283229397bold
        {mso-style-name:yiv283229397bold;
        mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
        margin-right:0mm;
        mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
        margin-left:0mm;
        font-size:12.0pt;
        font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
        color:black;}
p.yiv283229397green, li.yiv283229397green, div.yiv283229397green
        {mso-style-name:yiv283229397green;
        mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
        margin-right:0mm;
        mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
        margin-left:0mm;
        font-size:12.0pt;
        font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
        color:black;}
p.yiv283229397msonormal, li.yiv283229397msonormal, div.yiv283229397msonormal
        {mso-style-name:yiv283229397msonormal;
        mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
        margin-right:0mm;
        mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
        margin-left:0mm;
        font-size:12.0pt;
        font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
        color:black;}
p.yiv283229397replbq, li.yiv283229397replbq, div.yiv283229397replbq
        {mso-style-name:yiv283229397replbq;
        mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
        margin-right:0mm;
        mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
        margin-left:0mm;
        font-size:12.0pt;
        font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
        color:black;}
p.yiv283229397ad, li.yiv283229397ad, div.yiv283229397ad
        {mso-style-name:yiv283229397ad;
        mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
        margin-right:0mm;
        mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
        margin-left:0mm;
        font-size:12.0pt;
        font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
        color:black;}
p.yiv283229397underline, li.yiv283229397underline, div.yiv283229397underline
        {mso-style-name:yiv283229397underline;
        mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
        margin-right:0mm;
        mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
        margin-left:0mm;
        font-size:12.0pt;
        font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
        color:black;}
span.yiv283229397yshortcuts
        {mso-style-name:yiv283229397yshortcuts;}
p.yiv283229397ad1, li.yiv283229397ad1, div.yiv283229397ad1
        {mso-style-name:yiv283229397ad1;
        mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
        margin-right:0mm;
        mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
        margin-left:0mm;
        font-size:12.0pt;
        font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
        color:black;}
p.yiv283229397ad2, li.yiv283229397ad2, div.yiv283229397ad2
        {mso-style-name:yiv283229397ad2;
        mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
        margin-right:0mm;
        margin-bottom:7.5pt;
        margin-left:0mm;
        font-size:12.0pt;
        font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
        color:black;}
p.yiv283229397underline1, li.yiv283229397underline1, div.yiv283229397underline1
        {mso-style-name:yiv283229397underline1;
        mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
        margin-right:0mm;
        mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
        margin-left:0mm;
        font-size:12.0pt;
        font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
        color:black;
        text-decoration:underline;}
p.yiv283229397attach1, li.yiv283229397attach1, div.yiv283229397attach1
        {mso-style-name:yiv283229397attach1;
        mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
        margin-right:0mm;
        mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
        margin-left:0mm;
        font-size:9.0pt;
        font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
        color:black;}
p.yiv283229397bold1, li.yiv283229397bold1, div.yiv283229397bold1
        {mso-style-name:yiv283229397bold1;
        mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
        margin-right:0mm;
        mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
        margin-left:0mm;
        font-size:10.0pt;
        font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
        color:black;
        font-weight:bold;}
span.yiv283229397yshortcuts1
        {mso-style-name:yiv283229397yshortcuts1;
        font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
        font-weight:bold;}
span.yiv283229397yshortcuts2
        {mso-style-name:yiv283229397yshortcuts2;
        font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
        font-weight:normal;}
p.yiv283229397green1, li.yiv283229397green1, div.yiv283229397green1
        {mso-style-name:yiv283229397green1;
        mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
        margin-right:0mm;
        mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
        margin-left:0mm;
        font-size:12.0pt;
        font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
        color:#628C2A;}
p.yiv283229397msonormal1, li.yiv283229397msonormal1, div.yiv283229397msonormal1
        {mso-style-name:yiv283229397msonormal1;
        margin:0mm;
        margin-bottom:.0001pt;
        font-size:12.0pt;
        font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
        color:black;}
p.yiv283229397replbq1, li.yiv283229397replbq1, div.yiv283229397replbq1
        {mso-style-name:yiv283229397replbq1;
        margin:3.0pt;
        font-size:12.0pt;
        font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
        color:black;}
span.BalloonTextChar
        {mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
        mso-style-priority:99;
        mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
        font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
        color:black;}
span.EmailStyle47
        {mso-style-type:personal-reply;
        font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
        color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
        {mso-style-type:export-only;
        font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
        {size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
        margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
        {page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
        {mso-list-id:980423636;
        mso-list-template-ids:-1015281800;}
@list l0:level1
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:;
        mso-level-tab-stop:36.0pt;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-18.0pt;
        mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
        font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level2
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:o;
        mso-level-tab-stop:72.0pt;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-18.0pt;
        mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
        font-family:"Courier New";
        mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
@list l0:level3
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:;
        mso-level-tab-stop:108.0pt;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-18.0pt;
        mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
        font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level4
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:;
        mso-level-tab-stop:144.0pt;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-18.0pt;
        mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
        font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level5
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:;
        mso-level-tab-stop:180.0pt;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-18.0pt;
        mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
        font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level6
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:;
        mso-level-tab-stop:216.0pt;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-18.0pt;
        mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
        font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level7
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:;
        mso-level-tab-stop:252.0pt;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-18.0pt;
        mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
        font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level8
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:;
        mso-level-tab-stop:288.0pt;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-18.0pt;
        mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
        font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level9
        {mso-level-number-format:bullet;
        mso-level-text:;
        mso-level-tab-stop:324.0pt;
        mso-level-number-position:left;
        text-indent:-18.0pt;
        mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
        font-family:Wingdings;}
ol
        {margin-bottom:0mm;}
ul
        {margin-bottom:0mm;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dear
            Stuart and Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
            elemental analysis (ultimate analysis) of residual char is
            an important topic of future investigation and it is
            surprising how little has been done. There are coal analysis
            methods that are popular and routine, however they are not
            just misleading, they can be highly misleading if you take
            them to be a list of what is in the fuel. They are more like
            a study of the result of systematised char-making than
            elemental analysis.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
            concept that throws people off is that of ‘fixed carbon’ as
            if there was some carbon in the fuel that will not pyrolyse.
            Even if there was, it is not a measure of the total carbon
            in a fuel.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">So
            the lower temperature pyrolysis does not only increase the
            amount of volatiles, and it is also not only the carbon in
            those volatiles that may or may not be missing. It is not
            simple at all and the only way to investigate the result is
            with systematic analysis of the elements in the resulting
            product. In addition, for practical reasons, one would want
            to know the chemical contents because while knowing the
            total quantity of each element, or at least MASHCON as we
            call it for <i>HTP</i> calculations, the type and % of
            volatiles is still important.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Lighting
            very low volatiles high-carbon fuels is much more difficult
            than the converse. That matters a lot when designing a
            cooking system. I know there are serious implications for
            buried char when the wrong volatiles are manufactured in the
            hot, organic chemical-filled spaces in the pyrolysing fuel.
            The literature suggests that in Japan they are very specific
            about the type of fuel and heat treatment needed to get the
            ‘right’ product for biochar use.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">So
            there are two paths here. The Low path of knowing what is in
            the fuel so chemically balanced test methods can be applied
            and the High path with the Low + the chemical nature of
            everything that has been manufactured in the ‘retort’.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
            would settle for a middle path of knowing that the Moisture
            Ash Sulphur Hydrogen Carbon Oxygen and Nitrogen are
            (MASHCON) plus the % mass of volatiles. It is difficult
            enough to get that at a reasonable cost.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Crispin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0mm 0mm 0mm">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
                  lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
                lang="EN-US"> Stoves
                [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On
                  Behalf Of </b>Paul Anderson<br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 05, 2013 4:57 AM<br>
                <b>To:</b> stuart mather; Discussion of biomass cooking
                stoves<br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Characteristics of biochar
                was Re: [biochar] grassifier & cedar chip char<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Stuart and all,<br>
            <br>
            On 2/3/2013 10:21 PM, stuart mather wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
          <div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">That's
                  great, thanks Paul,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">So
                  the higher % yield of lower temp char is only extra
                  weight from ungasified volatiles, and not because less
                  of the carbon structure is being combusted? In a no
                  oxygen environment, no carbon can combust, no matter
                  how high the pyrolysis temp can it?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">And
                  I suppose there's also the issue of recalcitrance. Do
                  you know the figures for increased recalcitrance from
                  a higher pyrolysis temp.?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Stuart.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
        <p class="MsoNormal">The chemistry is important here.  In the
          biomass are many carbohydrate (C & H & O) molecules. 
          They are NOT elemental carbon (C).   Char is produced by
          pyrolysis, which uses heat, whether with or without a flame
          present.  Carbonization/pyrolysis (2 sides of the same coin)
          is the only way to make char at the surface of the Earth.  
          Carbon that is called coal is by pressure and heat underground
          (or in a laboratory).<br>
          <br>
          More than this, we need some chemists to fill in the picture
          to answer your questions.<br>
          <br>
          Paul<br>
          <br>
          <br>
          <o:p></o:p></p>
        <div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><br>
                <br>
                <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <pre style="background:white">Paul S. Anderson, PhD  aka "Dr TLUD"<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre style="background:white">Email:  <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>   Skype: paultlud  Phone: +1-309-452-7072<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre style="background:white">Website:  <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
          </div>
          <div>
            <div>
              <div>
                <div class="MsoNormal"
                  style="text-align:center;background:white"
                  align="center"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
                    <hr size="1" width="100%" align="center"></span></div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
                    Paul Anderson <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu"><psanders@ilstu.edu></a><br>
                    <b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a>
                    <br>
                    <b>Cc:</b> stuart mather <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:kneebraceboy@yahoo.com.au"><kneebraceboy@yahoo.com.au></a>;
                    Hugh McLaughlin <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:wastemin1@verizon.net"><wastemin1@verizon.net></a>
                    <br>
                    <b>Sent:</b> Monday, 4 February 2013 2:00 AM<br>
                    <b>Subject:</b> Characteristics of biochar was Re:
                    [biochar] grassifier & cedar chip char</span><o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><o:p> </o:p></p>
              <div id="yiv283229397">
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">Dear
                      Stuart, Trent and all,<br>
                      <br>
                      On 2/3/2013 6:32 AM, stuart mather wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote
                    style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">  <o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div id="yiv283229397ygrp-mlmsg">
                      <div id="yiv283229397ygrp-msg">
                        <div id="yiv283229397ygrp-text">
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Tom, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Isn't
                                  the most compelling reasons for
                                  keeping the temp low is that the yield
                                  is higher. If one of the motivations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> for
                                  making biochar is to sequester C, then
                                  minimizing the amount of CO2 you emit
                                  to the atmosphere in actually making
                                  the biochar would seem to be prudent,
                                  wouldn't it? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">Higher
                    yields (as measured by weight) do not mean that more
                    of the "right kind of C" is created or put into the
                    soil.  Higher weights are usually associated with
                    having more of the volatiles remaining in the char
                    structure.  So,<br>
                    <br>
                    Charcoal at minimal temps (I think about 300 - 350
                    C) have a lot of carbon remaining as  volatiles
                    (mobile, can be leached in soils, hurting plants),
                    which is good if you are trying to ignite it in a
                    charcoal cooker.   <br>
                    <br>
                    Charcoal at 450 C (in my opinion) is the bottom
                    range of what is decent to be used as biochar.<br>
                    <br>
                    Charcoal at 550 C to 800 C has less weight, but a
                    larger percentage is the desired carbon structures
                    for good biochar.  Very few volatiles.   And has
                    higher adsorption capacity.   <br>
                    <br>
                    McLaughlin has a great chart showing this but I
                    cannot find it right now.<br>
                    <br>
                    Please see the paper on the internet:    All
                    biochars are not created equal....    By McLaughlin,
                    Anderson, Shields and Reed (2009)   Also available
                    at my website <br>
                     <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.drtlud.com/resources/publications-and-multimedia/entire-catalogue/"
                      target="_blank">http://www.drtlud.com/resources/publications-and-multimedia/entire-catalogue/</a><br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div id="yiv283229397ygrp-mlmsg">
                    <div id="yiv283229397ygrp-msg">
                      <div id="yiv283229397ygrp-text">
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> I
                                understand that if you need to cook with
                                biomass then  a Tlud is clearly the way
                                to go. But can it be argued that people
                                in the developed world would be doing
                                the climate a favour by cooking food
                                with a TLUD too, and leaving the fossil
                                fuel gas or electric powered stove
                                gathering dust.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">I
                    certainly like to read comments like that!!!   <br>
                    <br>
                    And there is certainly room for a lot more efforts
                    by interested people.<br>
                    <br>
                    Paul<br>
                    <br>
                    <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div id="yiv283229397ygrp-mlmsg">
                    <div id="yiv283229397ygrp-msg">
                      <div id="yiv283229397ygrp-text">
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <pre style="background:white">Paul S. Anderson, PhD  aka "Dr TLUD"<o:p></o:p></pre>
                            <pre style="background:white">Email:  <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>   Skype: paultlud  Phone: +1-309-452-7072<o:p></o:p></pre>
                            <pre style="background:white">Website:  <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.drtlud.com/" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <div class="MsoNormal"
                                  style="text-align:center;background:white"
                                  align="center"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
                                    <hr size="1" width="100%"
                                      align="center"></span></div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
                                  style="background:white"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
                                    Tom Miles <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com"
                                      target="_blank"><tmiles@trmiles.com></a><br>
                                    <b>To:</b> <a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com"
                                      target="_blank">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a>
                                    <br>
                                    <b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 3 February 2013
                                    2:58 PM<br>
                                    <b>Subject:</b> RE: [biochar]
                                    grassifier & cedar chip char</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                              </div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                style="background:white"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                              <div id="yiv283229397">
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="background:white">  <o:p></o:p></p>
                                  <div id="yiv283229397ygrp-text">
                                    <div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">David,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Nitrogen in wood and straw forms
                                            ammonia and ammonia like
                                            compounds during pyrolysis.
                                            That is what you are
                                            smelling. Collectively they
                                            are called NOx precursors.
                                            When burned they become
                                            Nitrogen oxide emissions
                                            (NOx). As you suggest the
                                            TLUD is a more oxidizing
                                            environment and so you don’t
                                            see the same ammonia
                                            formation.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">The assumption that 450C is magic
                                            for all applications has to
                                            be further tested. We have
                                            anecdotally seen very good
                                            results with gasifier chars
                                            which are subjected to much
                                            higher (>600-800 C)
                                            temperatures. It is likely
                                            that TLUD chars are
                                            subjected to these higher
                                            temperatures. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Tom</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div
                                          style="border:none;border-top:solid
                                          #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm
                                          0mm 0mm">
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"
                                              style="background:white"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">
                                                <a
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a>
                                                [<a
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com</a>]
                                                <b>On Behalf Of </b>trent<br>
                                                <b>Sent:</b> Saturday,
                                                February 02, 2013 8:36
                                                PM<br>
                                                <b>To:</b> <a
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a><br>
                                                <b>Subject:</b> Re:
                                                [biochar] grassifier
                                                & cedar chip char</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="background:white"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="background:white">  <o:p></o:p></p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div id="yiv283229397ygrp-mlmsg">
                                        <div id="yiv283229397ygrp-msg">
                                          <div
                                            id="yiv283229397ygrp-text">
                                            <div>
                                              <div id="yiv283229397">
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">Well Don, the
                                                          noose is just
                                                          hanging there
                                                          empty so I am
                                                          going to put
                                                          my head in
                                                          it.  Looking
                                                          to scale up
                                                          and have tried
                                                          a couple
                                                          different
                                                          things
                                                          including
                                                          using <b><i><u>propane/natural
                                                          gas.</u></i></b>
                                                          Until proven
                                                          otherwise, I
                                                          don't see how
                                                          you can
                                                          achieve a
                                                          steady,
                                                          consistent
                                                          burn to
                                                          account for
                                                          biomass
                                                          variables in
                                                          MC, density,
                                                          etc. <b><i><u>and</u></i></b>
                                                          produce the
                                                          volume needed
                                                          to make a
                                                          profit on
                                                          industrial
                                                          sizing.  Steel
                                                          went away from
                                                          charcoal to
                                                          reduce costs. 
                                                          There is a
                                                          lesson there. 
                                                          If 450C
                                                          (842f)  is the
                                                          number being
                                                          bandied about
                                                          for ideal
                                                          commercial
                                                          biochar, its
                                                          going to take
                                                          a lot of
                                                          processed
                                                          biomass burned
                                                          or wasted, to
                                                          keep a
                                                          continous kiln
                                                          at that
                                                          temperature.
                                                          Processing
                                                          biomass as
                                                          fuel isnt
                                                          cheap.  Using
                                                          a combination
                                                          of gas and the
                                                          biogas,
                                                          industrial
                                                          ceramics and
                                                          automation to
                                                          create an
                                                          oxygen free
                                                          enviroment,
                                                          opens up all
                                                          kind of
                                                          doors.  I have
                                                          a very simple
                                                          design in mind
                                                          which can run
                                                          24/7 with gas
                                                          and was
                                                          wondering if
                                                          anyone could
                                                          recommend
                                                          someone with a
                                                          little more
                                                          engineering
                                                          expertise than
                                                          my UHK degree
                                                          to fill in
                                                          some blanks. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div
                                                      id="yiv283229397yui_3_7_2_17_1359863450192_54">
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
                                                          style="font-size:14.0pt"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://news.rice.edu/2012/03/22/cooking-better-biochar-study-improves-recipe-for-soil-additive/"
target="_blank">http://news.rice.edu/2012/03/22/cooking-better-biochar-study-improves-recipe-for-soil-additive/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div
                                                      id="yiv283229397yui_3_7_2_17_1359863450192_59">
                                                      <div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center;background:white" align="center"><span
                                                          style="font-size:10.0pt">
                                                          <hr size="1"
                                                          width="100%"
                                                          align="center"></span></div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"> David Yarrow <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                          href="mailto:dyarrow5@gmail.com"
target="_blank">dyarrow5@gmail.com</a>><br>
                                                          <b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com"
                                                          target="_blank">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <b>Sent:</b>
                                                          Saturday,
                                                          February 2,
                                                          2013 12:02 AM<br>
                                                          <b>Subject:</b>
                                                          Re: [biochar]
                                                          grassifier
                                                          & cedar
                                                          chip char</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div
                                                          id="yiv283229397">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white">  <o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          id="yiv283229397ygrp-text">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white">On Feb 1, 2013, at 9:12 PM, Trent Lund wrote:<br>
                                                          > David<br>
                                                          > Do you
                                                          think you
                                                          could char a
                                                          bale of straw
                                                          or is it
                                                          pressed to
                                                          tight?<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          hi trent,<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          i've thought
                                                          about that.
                                                          ideally, we
                                                          can design a
                                                          burner that
                                                          can char an
                                                          entire hay
                                                          bale without
                                                          extra
                                                          handling.
                                                          might require
                                                          a fan to
                                                          improve the
                                                          air flow thru
                                                          the feedstock.
                                                          the round
                                                          stalks of hay
                                                          and straw may
                                                          allow
                                                          significant
                                                          leeway in how
                                                          tight they can
                                                          be packed
                                                          together and
                                                          still allow
                                                          air to flow up
                                                          through the
                                                          stalks. dust
                                                          is a further
                                                          issue that can
                                                          shut down air
                                                          flow.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          currently, i
                                                          use a TLUD,
                                                          which requires
                                                          air to be
                                                          sucked up
                                                          through the
                                                          biomass.
                                                          experience is
                                                          this device is
                                                          finicky and
                                                          temperamental,
                                                          and particle
                                                          size and
                                                          feedstock
                                                          density is a
                                                          significant
                                                          issue. often i
                                                          have to screen
                                                          wood chips
                                                          through
                                                          1/4-inch
                                                          hardware cloth
                                                          to separate
                                                          out the dust
                                                          and finer
                                                          particles, or
                                                          the TLUD
                                                          chokes, the
                                                          gas flare goes
                                                          out, and a
                                                          smoky, stinky
                                                          burn results.
                                                          i'm concerned
                                                          hay, straw,
                                                          weeds, even
                                                          cornstalks
                                                          might
                                                          similarly
                                                          choke my TLUD,
                                                          so my first
                                                          test burn last
                                                          weekend with
                                                          hay for
                                                          feedstock, i
                                                          was careful to
                                                          loosen the
                                                          stalks of the
                                                          tightly packed
                                                          hay bale and
                                                          pack it in the
                                                          barrel loosely
                                                          but firmly.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          in the next
                                                          two months, i
                                                          will do more
                                                          test burns
                                                          with a variety
                                                          of weedy
                                                          materials. i
                                                          will
                                                          experiment to
                                                          see how tight
                                                          i can pack hay
                                                          or straw
                                                          without
                                                          choking the
                                                          updraft.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          two years ago,
                                                          i was using a
                                                          55/30-gallon
                                                          kiln &
                                                          retort to char
                                                          sticks and
                                                          limbs of
                                                          applewood for
                                                          saratoga apple
                                                          orchard. apple
                                                          is denser than
                                                          oak or maple,
                                                          and harder to
                                                          ignite and
                                                          burn. what
                                                          worked well
                                                          was to loosely
                                                          pack straw
                                                          with the
                                                          applewood.
                                                          straw gasifies
                                                          faster that
                                                          wood, and
                                                          kickstarts
                                                          pyrolysis
                                                          until
                                                          temperatures
                                                          are intense
                                                          enough to
                                                          gasify the
                                                          denser
                                                          applewood.
                                                          worked so well
                                                          the applewood
                                                          limbs would
                                                          shatter into
                                                          small chunks,
                                                          making them
                                                          easier to
                                                          process into
                                                          soil mixes.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          curiously, i
                                                          discovered
                                                          that a freshly
                                                          opened retort
                                                          with straw
                                                          char emitted
                                                          such strong
                                                          ammonia odor
                                                          it would knock
                                                          my head back.
                                                          never got to
                                                          fully explore
                                                          what that was,
                                                          but it seemed
                                                          certain the
                                                          ammonia was
                                                          coming from
                                                          the straw.
                                                          with a TLUD, i
                                                          doubt ammonia
                                                          will be
                                                          created, or if
                                                          so, it will be
                                                          oxidized and
                                                          burnt off in
                                                          the gas flare.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          david<o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
                            style="color:white">__._,_.___<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      </div>
                      <table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0"
                        cellpadding="0">
                        <tbody>
                          <tr>
                            <td style="border:solid #EAEAEA
                              1.0pt;background:#F2F2F2;padding:5.25pt
                              3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt">
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:15.0pt;margin-right:0mm;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0mm"><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:white"><a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyajk2ZWIzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRtc2dJZAMxNDQ3MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNTk4OTQ3NzY-?act=reply&messageNum=14472"
                                      target="_blank"><span
                                        style="color:#2D50FD;text-decoration:none">Reply
                                        via web post</span></a> <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
                            </td>
                            <td style="border:solid #EAEAEA
                              1.0pt;background:#F2F2F2;padding:5.25pt
                              3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt">
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:15.0pt;margin-right:0mm;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0mm"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:white"><a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kneebraceboy@yahoo.com.au?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bbiochar%5D%20grassifier%20%26%20cedar%20chip%20char"
                                    target="_blank"><span
                                      style="color:#2D50FD;text-decoration:none">Reply
                                      to sender </span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                            </td>
                            <td style="border:solid #EAEAEA
                              1.0pt;background:#F2F2F2;padding:5.25pt
                              3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt">
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:15.0pt;margin-right:0mm;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0mm"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:white"><a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bbiochar%5D%20grassifier%20%26%20cedar%20chip%20char"
                                    target="_blank"><span
                                      style="color:#2D50FD;text-decoration:none">Reply
                                      to group </span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                            </td>
                            <td style="border:solid #EAEAEA
                              1.0pt;background:#F2F2F2;padding:5.25pt
                              3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt">
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:15.0pt;margin-right:0mm;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0mm"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:white"><a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmc2ZiazEwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTk4OTQ3NzY-"
                                    target="_blank"><span
                                      style="color:#2D50FD;text-decoration:none">Start
                                      a New Topic</span></a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                            </td>
                            <td style="border:solid #EAEAEA
                              1.0pt;background:#F2F2F2;padding:5.25pt
                              3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt">
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:15.0pt;margin-right:0mm;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0mm"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#2D50FD"><a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/message/14460;_ylc=X3oDMTM3aGloNnFnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRtc2dJZAMxNDQ3MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTk4OTQ3NzYEdHBjSWQDMTQ0NjA-"
                                    target="_blank"><span
                                      style="color:#2D50FD;text-decoration:none">Messages
                                      in this topic</span></a> (10) <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                            </td>
                          </tr>
                        </tbody>
                      </table>
                      <div style="margin-bottom:7.5pt"
                        id="yiv283229397ygrp-vital">
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:#F2F2F2"><b><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333;text-transform:uppercase">Recent
                              Activity:</span></b><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">
                            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        <div
                          style="mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-right:solid
                          black 1.0pt;padding:0mm 4.0pt 0mm
                          0mm;background:#F2F2F2;margin-left:-18.0pt;margin-right:0mm">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
                            level1
                            lfo1;background:#F2F2F2;border:none;padding:0mm"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
                                style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
                                  style="font:7.0pt "Times New
                                  Roman"">         </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
                              class="yiv283229397cat"><b><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJncjFnbDk2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzU5ODk0Nzc2?o=6"
                                    target="_blank"><span
                                      style="text-decoration:none">New
                                      Members</span></a></span></b></span><b><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">
                              </span></b><span class="yiv283229397ct"><b><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#FF7900">2</span></b></span><b><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">
                                <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                            style="background:#F2F2F2"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1E66AE"><a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMWZ1Y3FoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNTk4OTQ3NzY-"
                                target="_blank"><span
                                  style="text-decoration:none">Visit
                                  Your Group</span></a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div style="margin-top:3.75pt" id="yiv283229397ft">
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZ3Bla2M0BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM1OTg5NDc3Ng--"
                              target="_blank"><span
                                style="text-decoration:none"><img
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  id="_x0000_i1028"
                                  src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/yg/logo/us.gif"
                                  alt="Yahoo! Groups" width="137"
                                  height="15" border="0"></span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#747575">Switch
                              to: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:biochar-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change%20Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional"
                                target="_blank"><span
                                  style="text-decoration:none">Text-Only</span></a>,
                              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:biochar-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email%20Delivery:%20Digest"
                                target="_blank"><span
                                  style="text-decoration:none">Daily
                                  Digest</span></a> • <a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:biochar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"
                                target="_blank"><span
                                  style="text-decoration:none">Unsubscribe</span></a>
                              • <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"
                                target="_blank"><span
                                  style="text-decoration:none">Terms of
                                  Use</span></a> • <a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ygroupsnotifications@yahoogroups.com?subject=Feedback%20on%20the%20redesigned%20individual%20mail%20v1"
                                target="_blank"><span
                                  style="text-decoration:none">Send us
                                  Feedback </span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
                          style="font-size:1.0pt;color:white">.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
                        style="color:white">__,_._,___<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                </div>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"
                style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><o:p> </o:p></p>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list

to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>

to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>

for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>